1. DLP Flash Christmas Competition + Writing Marathon 2024!

    Competition topic: Magical New Year!

    Marathon goal? Crank out words!

    Check the marathon thread or competition thread for details.

    Dismiss Notice
  2. Hi there, Guest

    Only registered users can really experience what DLP has to offer. Many forums are only accessible if you have an account. Why don't you register?
    Dismiss Notice
  3. Introducing for your Perusing Pleasure

    New Thread Thursday
    +
    Shit Post Sunday

    READ ME
    Dismiss Notice

Let's shit on Hermione

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Skeletaure, Jul 4, 2020.

  1. Skeletaure

    Skeletaure Magical Core Enthusiast ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2006
    Messages:
    2,819
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    High Score:
    13,152
    She doesn't reciprocate Harry's trust

    Harry has no secrets from Hermione. Certainly he doesn't keep anything important from her. Hermione doesn't reciprocate that level of trust.

    In PoA, she doesn't tell him about the time-turner, placing the Ministry's rules above her friendship (an order of priorities that Harry would never follow).

    Also in PoA, she doesn't tell him about her suspicions that Sirius Black sent the Firebolt before going to McGonagall.

    She keeps her date a secret in GoF but knows who Harry is going with.

    The trust in their friendship seems to be very one-way.

    She doesn't respect Harry's instincts

    In HBP, Harry believes that Draco is a Death Eater. Despite Harry repeatedly getting these things right, she doesn't give his suspicion any respect at all, dismissing it outright.

    In DH, Harry wants to look into the Deathly Hallows. Again, Hermione completely rejects his thinking, despite his hunches about these things being repeatedly right.

    She can't admit being wrong

    In HBP, after a full year of refusing to believe Harry that Draco is a Death Eater, at the moment that she is proven wrong in the most disastrous fashion with the death of Dumbledore, what does Hermione do?

    She tells Harry "I told you so".
     
  2. Donimo

    Donimo Auror

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2015
    Messages:
    651
    This could be a very different thread.
     
  3. haphnepls

    haphnepls Seventh Year

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2019
    Messages:
    291
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Croatia
    “Luna has told me all about you, young lady,” said [Mr. Lovegood]. “You are, as I gather, not unintelligent, but painfully limited. Narrow. Close-minded.”

    Xeno should've kept going on about her. I particularly enjoyed 'painfully limited'. Also how she treats Luna is awful, especially because she herself didn't have any friends before Harry and Ron saved her.
     
  4. Advice Needed

    Advice Needed Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2019
    Messages:
    71
    You filthy mofo.
     
  5. TRH

    TRH Groundskeeper

    Joined:
    May 19, 2012
    Messages:
    369
    Her secret-keeping always seemed to me to be more grounded in the Doylist need for plot twists and surprising reveals than in any kind of defensible Watsonian logic. There was no Earthly reason for her to, say, not tell Harry she wanted him in the Three Broomsticks to tell his story to Rita Skeeter, but she did it anyways to keep the reader in the dark until then. It screwing up Harry's date with Cho and Hermione only advising him on how to finesse the issue with her after the fact is just a bonus. And so on.
     
  6. Silirt

    Silirt Chief Warlock DLP Supporter ⭐⭐

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2018
    Messages:
    1,526
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Georgia
    She voices her suspicions, she just doesn't say that Black could have sent it. I'm not sure she made that connection until later.
     
  7. Mordecai

    Mordecai Drunken Scotsman –§ Prestigious §– DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2005
    Messages:
    559
    Location:
    Englandshire
    High Score:
    5,725
    She's certainly a flawed person. Which I don't think is a bad thing from a literary standpoint. It makes her far more realistic than a perfect character would be. Ron is equally flawed in his own ways. She isn't a perfect person, but at the same time for all the flaws you outline she also stuck by Harry when she could have left him high and dry. She put herself in danger multiple times to help him. That can't be dismissed.
     
  8. haphnepls

    haphnepls Seventh Year

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2019
    Messages:
    291
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Croatia
    Let's shit on Hermione, not defend her weak character...
     
  9. Skeletaure

    Skeletaure Magical Core Enthusiast ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2006
    Messages:
    2,819
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    High Score:
    13,152
    I'm not sure that this casts her in a better light. It's like the scene in BvS which was correctly mocked by Pitch Meeting:



    (See 3 mins 2 secs)

    Hermione should just state the reason for her belief rather than thinking that everyone should just do what she says without question.
     
  10. TRH

    TRH Groundskeeper

    Joined:
    May 19, 2012
    Messages:
    369
    But Chapter 11 needed a cliffhanger ending, what do you want from her?
     
  11. Acquiescing Avian

    Acquiescing Avian Second Year

    Joined:
    May 24, 2020
    Messages:
    59
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    India
    Harry opened his presents on Christmas morning, McGonagall took it after the feast. Hermione didn't talk to Harry or Ron for the entire day because Ron tried to kick Crookshanks. She had plenty of time.

    Instead of telling Harry her suspicions, she chose to tell McGonagall first.
     
  12. Mestre

    Mestre Professor

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2015
    Messages:
    451
    Location:
    Portugal
    Let's not forget that she disfigured Marietta's face instead of making a contract to stop the snitch of actually snitching or how arrogant she was to everyone else. If she was a pureblood she would probably be a more competent Malfoy, especially with all the pureblood propaganda affirming how she is better than everyone else.
     
  13. Silirt

    Silirt Chief Warlock DLP Supporter ⭐⭐

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2018
    Messages:
    1,526
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Georgia
    The only reasons she had for believing the broom was suspicious were apparent. Harry and Ron already knew those reasons (It's expensive, highly convenient, no sender, no note) and did not find them compelling. I'm confused as to how either of them would change their perspective on the subject if she said a wanted criminal who just escaped from prison with the clothes on his back could have bought it, especially when there's no evidence to suggest it. A bit later in the book, Harry and Oliver Wood seem to agree that such a thing is highly unlikely.
    I'm not arguing that it was a spectacular display of friendship by Hermione, since it wouldn't have hurt anything to tell Harry that she thought Sirius Black could have bought it, but it would have had absolutely no effect. Harry and Ron both believed there was nothing wrong with it, so the only way to move the discussion along was to consult someone who would know more. They had no reason to believe checking it for jinxes would damage it until the unfortunate turn of phrase McGonagall used, so I couldn't tell you why they didn't have it checked just to assuage their friend's suspicions.
     
  14. Methos

    Methos High Inquisitor DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2016
    Messages:
    549
    High Score:
    0
    In the 4th book we have scene of Harry admitting to himself he wanted to be part of the tournament but got cold feet realizing what it entails.
    Maybe if Hermione tried to illuminate her position without patronizing Harry and Ron will be more open to her ideas.
    She could offer they verify it with their charm's Professor.
     
  15. Zilly Sawdust

    Zilly Sawdust High Inquisitor

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2005
    Messages:
    510
    I'd read a Dark Lord!Hermione, who brews a love potion while having extra time in third year, drugs Ron to gain political legitimacy through marriage and takes over the wizarding world with her elf army. Mucho Krackow.
     
  16. TRH

    TRH Groundskeeper

    Joined:
    May 19, 2012
    Messages:
    369
    The Thank God You're Here thread did that one already.
     
  17. Sesc

    Sesc Slytherin at Heart Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2007
    Messages:
    6,216
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Blocksberg, Germany
    And it's her place to ensure that this outcome, which she has determined is the right one, comes about?

    The question is rhetorical, I guess; we had this argument often enough and I know a lot of people define this as 'friendship'. It never fails to baffle me, though (which is also why I can't stand her, our ideas of what a friend means are just incompatible).

    You don't stop a friend determined to find out what jumping from a roof is like, and certainly don't go I told you so afterwards. You haul his broken ass to the hospital and help him recover. A friend supports, he doesn't decide. It's a fundamentally different approach.

    Which, to be fair, also works in reverse -- just because you're a friend, doesn't mean I excuse everything you do and want me to do, and if you're doing stupid shit, you'll certainly do it without me. (Which, for a start, includes the PS nonsense.)

    So you take the good with the bad, I suppose, as always, but in any case, on any level other than an abstract one, the nature of people like Hermione as my antithesis is mystifying.
     
  18. CleanRag

    CleanRag Professor

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2009
    Messages:
    420
    Location:
    --> ? <--
    There also lies a whole host of middle ground options that Hermione never took before snitching Harry out. A concerned friend would suggest reasonable safety precautions like riding the broom indoors where he would probably just end up with a broken bone rather than a 300 foot fall in the event she was correct.

    This isn't a total condemnation of Hermione's character. Just saying that Ron and Harry were in the right when they shunned her afterwards.
     
  19. Skeletaure

    Skeletaure Magical Core Enthusiast ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2006
    Messages:
    2,819
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    High Score:
    13,152
    So the idea was that people were supposed to add their own, not just discuss mine. More:

    She disregards people's feelings and property

    PoA, her comments about Lavender's rabbit.

    PoA, her refusal to take responsibility for Crookshanks and the danger he presented to Scabbers.

    Again, HBP, saying "I told you so" to Harry after she'd just been proven wrong, for some reason trying to shift the blame for Dumbledore's death onto him.

    She plays false balance in GoF

    When Ron abandoned Harry in GoF, Hermione acts as if they're having a fight that she should stay out of, even though Harry was plainly in the right and a victim. She should have stuck with Harry and condemned Ron's behaviour, instead of giving it tacit approval by continuing to hang out with him.
     
  20. TRH

    TRH Groundskeeper

    Joined:
    May 19, 2012
    Messages:
    369
    If that's the game, let me give it a whirl.

    She skirts the law/morality, often in secret

    GoF, she imprisons and then blackmails a reporter for being too invasive.

    OotP, she doesn't inform the DA that they were effectively signing a magical contract, even though her failure to disclose this made the contract less effective.

    DH, well, the bit with her parents. And yet in the same book, she also tells Ron how despicable his plan of double-crossing Griphook is.

    She utterly lacks self-awareness about her academic standing

    PoA, her worst fear is being told by her professors that she's failed all of her classes.

    HBP, she panics at the sight of owls coming with OWL test results for her, Ron and Harry.

    And various other loud expressions of insecurity on her part can be found in the other books as well. All of this despite it being well-known by her entire year that she's the top student. She knows this, and nevertheless insists on airing her neuroticism constantly. If the best student in the year frets that she's on the verge of flunking out, then what message will her less capable classmates take from that? Seriously, now.

    Am I doing this right?
     
Loading...