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LoTR crossover - Harry, Serpent Lord of the Haradrim

Discussion in 'Fanfic Discussion' started by Andro, Aug 21, 2007.

  1. Andro

    Andro Master of Death DLP Supporter

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    This plot bunny gave birth to itself recently. Basically, I stumbled across a Wikipedia article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serpent_Lord) detailing the Serpent Lord, the chieftain of the Haradrim, or people of Harad (located to the south of Gondor).

    I automatically made the connection between Harry being a Parseltongue and the title of the character, and thought it would make a unique plotline for a HP-LoTR crossover if Harry were to assume the identity of the Serpent Lord. I have the scene transitioning Harry from his world into Middle Earth written out, through the use of the Mirror of Erised (housed in the Locked Room) after an attempted assassination by the head of the Unspeakables. For background information, Harry has attained a high enough rank in the Aurors to be able to enter the room. A spell catches him unawares, and blows him into the mirror, which shatters, and make his deepest desire come true, placing him in a place where he can belong.

    The LoTR timeline has long since confused me, but I will have Harry be caught in the siege of the watchtower of Weathertop. During the battle between the Gondorians and the Witch-King's forces, Harry meets a horseman fleeing the battle carrying the palantir to Minas Tirith.

    The horseman is killed by an arrow, and Harry slaughters the attacking party of orcs. He decides to take the palantir, and journeys southwards into Harad.

    Here, I incorporate part of Belerdorhan's challenge posted a while ago. He takes refuge in a town, which is soon overrun by a warband of Haradrim. Through use of magic, Harry is spared and adopted by the warband, which brings him back to the tribe's settlement. He quickly begins to arise in esteem, as the Haradrim are superstitious and venerate the snake, and eventually rises to leadership among the tribe. He conquers the other Haradrim factions, uniting Harad, and the events of the War of the Ring ensue.

    That's all I have so far. Do you guys have any suggestions? Obviously, Harry won't be killed by the King of Rohan like he did in the Return of the King...
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2007
  2. MysterioX

    MysterioX Professor

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    Beautiful idea.

    Better a low level unspeakable than an auror, I don’t see an auror having access to famous magical items.
    Were you planning to make it a post DH? Or a completely AU, where Voldemort is alive and the light side is slowly loosing?
    It would be better if it were a post DH, where Harry is tired of the public attention Ginslut’s whining about wanting to get married :p

    Harry is known to mope in front of the mirror during his free time and a Voldemort sympathizer attempts revenge or Draco Malfoy :D who is also an unspeakable in training, he follows to taunt Harry and duel is the result. Harry disappears due to a misfired spell the breaks the mirror.

    I don't know in detail about lotR timeline. Is this before the fellowship of the ring?
     
  3. Andro

    Andro Master of Death DLP Supporter

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    It would take place long time before the fellowship of the ring when the watchtower and the fortifications were still manned by Gondor. The Witch-King, I forget the details, invades, and the Dunedain are defending themselves on Weathertop.
     
  4. MysterioX

    MysterioX Professor

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    That's good. He'll have time to learn unique magics of the Haradrim and Middle-earth.
     
  5. Anlun

    Anlun Denarii Host

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    Never seen that idea, so points for originality, don't know if I would like a "bad-guy" Harry but I would like the chance to read it.
     
  6. MysterioX

    MysterioX Professor

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    Agreed, evil Harry does not mesh well with the LotR universe. Especially since, to be evil in Middle-earth means follower of Sauron. Sauron accepting a partnership deal is laughable.
    Dark/Sarcastic won’t be so bad.
     
  7. Spanks

    Spanks Chief Warlock

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    Could always have it so that Harry and Sauron are both evil but they are at war with each other, both fighting for dominance. Or Harry isn't evil, but he isn't a good guy either, he looks out only for his own self interest.
     
  8. MysterioX

    MysterioX Professor

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    yea, but for Harry to wage war against Sauron he would need the support of some races other than the Haradrim factions and all the evil factions are already staunch supporters of Sauron. I also think Sauron's capable of doing the evil overlord thing alone, much more capable and cooler than Voldemort will ever be.

    That a given with being Dark/Sarcastic :p
     
  9. Tehan

    Tehan Avatar of Khorne DLP Supporter

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    I find this bunny to be most tasty.

    One way to play it would be a gradual steering away from the canon storyline, with Harry's influence and/or rulership causing the Haradrim to ally themselves (for a hefty fee, naturally) with Gondor rather than the Númenóreans, the Wainriders, and various other nasties that popped up from time to time. He'd be playing nicely with Gandalf and Saruman too, at least up until the time when the latter turns nasty - although this could be changed, too, depending on what Harry does with his palantír. Then, during the War of the Ring, he'd be bang alongside the forces of good. Possibly going so far as attending the little get-together at the Council of Elrond.

    Aye, I see much potential in this idea.
     
  10. Anlun

    Anlun Denarii Host

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    If he's looking out for his own self interest it would be in his interest to not attack Gondor and to stop Sauron. Being the leader of the Haradrim wouldn't really aid in accomplishing that.
    I like the idea but I guess I'm just more inclined with either douche-bag but good Harry, or just good Harry. Not a fan of evil Warlord Harry.
     
  11. Andro

    Andro Master of Death DLP Supporter

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    I was toying with an idea of the White Council. A fleeing Dunedain can report the sighting of a possible Istari, given that Harry is a wizard, and the Saruman forms an alliance with Harry. Or the other path could be taken, with Harry siding with Gandalf. Taking the latter path would give a pretext to bring Harry alongside Gondor.

    A way to go for the Sauron-Harry partnership is Sauron presenting him with a Ring of Power as a token of friendship. Harry doesn't know any better, and while Sauron believes he's turned him into his puppet, the ring's corruption takes place at a slower rate due to his magical nature.

    I think a good way to mesh the two verses would be the Necromancer in Dol Guldur, who is driven to Mordor in "The Hobbit". Harry could participate in the attack, and I assume that the necromancer was named that for a reason.

    My original intention with Harry was to make him a Ender-esque character. On the surface, he would be supporting Saruman, believing that, since he's the White Wizard, he's on the "right" side. Thus, he could commit some atrocities but still not be seen entirely as a true villain, such as Ender Wiggin exterminating an entire race, and yet we love him all the same.
     
  12. Anlun

    Anlun Denarii Host

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    I like the second idea more but remember that although the Istari are wizards in Tolkien there closer to angels. They intervene only when they have to, and usually stay on the sidelines. Magic is much more mystical in Tolkein so something would need to be done to keep Harry's powers in line.

    This probably has the most potential as it brings in the struggle between Harry and the slow corruption of the ring. Again you would need to be careful because I believe almost all the rings were accounted for except for a few of the Dwarf ones. And I believe those had some sort of earth power as a basis.

    I believe it was said the the Necromancer was the spirit of Sauron or something like that. I'm fairly certain it was. I don't know how you could turn it into a Hp blend but it would be interesting to try.


    I don't know if this would work. Harry may be gullible but I just don't see him believing that sending orcs to ravage villages and kill people as the "right" thing. Saruman's corruption was cause more by his love of power not because he thought he was doing the right thing. Saruman believed he could challenge Sauron in power and would then rule. I don't see Harry falling for this.
    I think the best idea is the ring one because it adds another dimension to Harry's character, and it corresponds to canon Harrys idiotic curiosity. I can see him just grabbing the ring without questioning it.
    I think
     
  13. Andro

    Andro Master of Death DLP Supporter

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    I literally got blind-sided by inspiration a minute ago. How about Harry *drumroll* presents a woman of another Haradrim tribe with the ring for the sake of a political marriage. His devotion and determination is such that he overcomes the ring's malignant influence long enough to let it leave him. He suffers withdrawal symptons, but eventually is freed of its influence entirely.

    This leaves him at a crossroads of opportunities. He's unintentionally gained independence while Sauron believes he is still being corrupted, and will make him more easily give his support to the Gondorians.

    I visualize him riding out to clash with Theoden, and then conversing with him to explain the change of heart, and the entire Southron army turns against the orcs in the Pelennor Fields.
     
  14. Kardikek

    Kardikek Groundskeeper

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    I'm curious how you'd go around dealing with the magic in particular. In Tolkien's world magic is as rare as miracles. The oldest and most powerful of elves have the power of seeing, not as something they can control but instinctual knowing. The istari are beefed down half-gods and I can only recall two instances where Gandalf used his power on screen. Now Harry on the other hand, well.. his magic would be quite overpowered. Insanely overpowered actually.

    The chronology of middle earth a bit complicated. First comes the year of the trees, then the first age, the second age, the third age and fourth etc. After each age the timeline is reset.
    So weathertop was built at the end of the second age, y 3320. Second age ended 3441 and it survived through the first half of the third age until 1409. The tower lasted for 1530 years in total.
    Now the war of the ring was between the years 3018-3019 of the third age. So the time between the fall of Weathertop and the beginning of the last war against Sauron is 1609 years. That's quite a lot, even for Harry. :p

    Andro: Did you mean that Harry would be the necromancer?
    And did you also mean that the woman would present to Harry the ring? Don't understand why he'd give the ring to the woman.


    It's too bad not many people write about the first age. Compared to what you have later everything is.. harder. Sauron's still the errand boy to his boss, the big man Morgoth himself. Balrogs and dragons are plentiful, and elves.. You have elven kings and princes going solo against Balrogs and winning. Now considering Balrogs were of the same level as Sauron, having someone like Fingolfin alive in the third age and Sauron would have been gutted long long ago.
     
  15. Anlun

    Anlun Denarii Host

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    Wait I'm confused so would he marry the woman who he gave the ring to, or would it be just to a random woman. And how would he get a ring of power in the first place? I reiterate that the only rings that aren't accounted for are a few of the dwarf ones. How would the Haradrim, desert people, come into possession of a ring that was last located within mountains?
     
  16. Kardikek

    Kardikek Groundskeeper

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    All the dwarven rings were destroyed or reclaimed by then. Only the three elven rings were still free.
     
  17. Andro

    Andro Master of Death DLP Supporter

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    I think I said it earlier, but Sauron sends a messenger to Harry bearing one of the drawven rings in his possession.

    Hm, this could get complicated, because Sauron would have to explain why it's valuable, ie it grants immortality to its wearer, but not its true nature. But once Harry learns of the immortality, he stops.

    Alright, scratch the bridal ring idea. I'll go with my original plan.

    For the magic aspect, I'm thinking of Harry's magic degenerating, so that while it is still unquestionably powerful, it will be more crude, like a rawer version. Once he runs into the White Council, he learns the 'words of power', and his magic is refined and fully adapted to Middle Earth.
     
  18. Anlun

    Anlun Denarii Host

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    Of the seven granted to the dwarves, Sauron reclaimed three, the other four were eaten by dragons.
     
  19. Marine_Rupert

    Marine_Rupert Squib

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    I thought the 3 and the 1 granted eternal life, not the other ones which were "essays" in the craft and were considered trifles.

    Mixing the HP magic and the LotR magic is definitely one of the most important bits.

    I can't see much in the way of action though. Either he allies with Sauron and has pretty much no opposition until the war of the Ring, or he is against Sauron and has no opposition because Sauron has no body.

    For the most part Middle-Earth is fairly peaceful after Melkor is locked away so maybe you should have Harry go all the way back to the beginning, where Melkor is snatching Elves and all sorts of
    dark creatures are running about.

    Crossing LotR with HP is very hard. They are too different, and you also have to remember that many of the HP fans may have only seen the LotR movies, and havent read the Silmarillions.
     
  20. nick012000

    nick012000 First Year

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    Well, Sauron could decide to sacrifice the unlife of one of his Ring Wraiths and give him one of the Nine Rings, in the hopes of getting his claws into a more powerful servant.
     
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