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Master of Death: What Should it Mean?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by AmerigoCorleone, Feb 22, 2017.

  1. AmerigoCorleone

    AmerigoCorleone Seventh Year

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    I understand the author wishes for us to believe that the Deathly Hallows were just human inventions and being the "Master of Death" simply means accepting death...

    Yet I can't help but feel that this is too much of a copout. I think their should be consequences -positive and negative- to being the Master of Death.

    What, in your opinion, should these consequences be?
     
  2. Atram Noctem

    Atram Noctem High Inquisitor

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    No, I really don't think it's anything other than that. The entire series has a strong theme of accepting death, and not controlling it.

    As for the consequences - the positive being that you don't butcher your soul in an attempt to live forever, and can deal with the death of loved ones, the negative being that you come off as a bit suicidal.
     
  3. Distaly

    Distaly Third Year

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    The Deathly Hollows are a fairy tale. I think it is quite safe to follow Dumbledore and just assume the three brothers were accomplished wizards who created those powerful artefacts and with time they became a legend. Today "we" tell that those three items are so powerful they were created by death itself and yielding them will make you his better.

    But in the end, this is all legend, or in other words, bullshit.
    The three Hollows dont give you anything when you carry them at the same time, execpt their unique powers they each carry.


    Of course if you still really want something than you have a wide varity of things to choose, from literally the power over death (as in killing other) to being immortal or simply having a better understanding about death and what it entailts.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2017
  4. Miner

    Miner Groundskeeper

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    Personally, Gravesong: Requiem highlighted idealized!Master of Death for me.

    Shame it hasn't been updated. Hem.

    But beyond that, yeah I don't think there's very much significance to the whole title of Master of Death in the canon universe. Harry didn't mysteriously understand Death a lot better. I dunno if he could hide from Death under the cloak but odds are probably not. He definitely couldn't will Death to kill X or not kill Y.
     
  5. AmerigoCorleone

    AmerigoCorleone Seventh Year

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    For me, it should mean that Harry has a better understanding of life and death, an intuitive understanding of souls, and perhaps a dash of immortality where he goes through a cycle of reincarnation.
     
  6. CareOtters

    CareOtters Headmaster DLP Supporter

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    You sure about that?

    But seriously, the Master of Death is not a title from canon. It's a fanon term. Iirc, in canon someone who collected all three Hallows would master death, not take on a legendary title or fulfill some ancient chosen-one-esque prophecy.

    The owner of the wand masters death because he can give death.

    The owner of the stone masters death because he can reach past it.

    The owner of the cloak masters death because he can avoid it.

    Someone with all of them can do all three.

    There's no reason to think that combining these items does anything more than the sum of their parts, except perhaps painting an even bigger target on the owner's back than the Elder Wand did on its own.

    It's a fun and useful point of divergence, however. And like all other similar points of divergence, the selling point is in the execution, not the idea itself. It's no different than anything else, like stepping through the veil, being sorted into another house, and so on.

    There's no real difference to a plot based around a Master of Death than a Because Magic divergence plot. And that's no bad thing. But it has no meaning beyond that which we give it.

    The ability to add this kind of meaning and interest to throwaway background details is part of why we all enjoy fanfiction.
     
  7. syed

    syed Supermod

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    I always thought the stone was under used. It could have been used with one of those memory bowls and it could allow the creation of limitless animated portraits. The shades the stone produced reminded me of the echoes of people that were emitted from the brother wand effect. This made me wonder if it could be used as a focus for spells that appear as an avatar form, so the patronus and Fiendfyre as an example of it.

    I always wondered if the bridge that the three brothers built is the veil. The cloak could allow free passage, while the hollows could have other effects.
     
    Oz
  8. Keira

    Keira Squib

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    When I first read Deathly Hallows (I was 17) I wished it would mean something more, like some power for Harry to fight Voldemort.
     
  9. Darth_Revan

    Darth_Revan Secret Squirrel Prestige DLP Supporter

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    The Master of Death title is canon. Xeno Lovegood discusses the subject with the group when they go to him to ask about the Sign of the Hallows.
     
  10. syed

    syed Supermod

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    It would have been epic if Harry unleashed an army of shades to fight the bad guys, I could see Fabian and Gideon joking as they protected moly and her family. Albus and Aberforth fighting back to back. Jame and Sirius charging targets in their animal forms. Every slain member of the order of the Phoenix finally getting justice. Technically they would be finishing their unfinished business, so great reason for ghosts.
     
    Oz
  11. Manatheron

    Manatheron Headmaster

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    Verified. As quoted by Xenophilius Lovegood in the Seventh book

    "That is a children's tale, told to amuse rather than to instruct. Those of us who understand these matters, however, recognize that the ancient story refers to three objects, or Hallows, which, if united, will make the possessor Master of Death"

    "Master or Conquerer or Vanquisher whatever you say"

    I ran across a similar discussion elsewhere and actually came back for the first time In about three years to see if there were any good counter arguments. My wife (one of the three reasons I vanished) Argues that Harry was never actually the master of death however.

    It's a technicality but he was never in physical possession of all three objects at the same time even if he did have the 'loyalty' of the wand while in the forest it wasn't in his possession, and he chucked the stone before taking possession of the wand.

    Putting aside the fact that I think they are a massive Deus Ex that Rowling pulled from some place unmentionable, I agree that there should be some perks, some of the better ones I've seen are an ability to converse with the dead without summoning them (ignoring ghosts, they don't count). The ability to read a person's remaining term alive. (Though the implementation was bullshit, I still maintain it should have been in flux depending on their choices). Insight into weaknesses of people around him wether physical or mental, the ability to cross dimensions ( though everyone seems to require him to use them in conjunction with the veil). Being Deaths servant (they were actually a trap). Being the final arbitrator if someone died 'to early' or cheated death. Taking over as his dimensions death Terry Pratchett style. Gaining a 'spider sense' for when shit was about to go down around him, the ability to slow or stop (but not reverse) time around him. And the ability to resurrect people (again massively broken, There should have been some sevear consequences)

    Not a complete list obviously, and some are a lot more broken than others but... -Shrugs-
     
  12. seis

    seis Squib

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    I don't know if this fits into this thread, but if we are extrapolating what the title means, we should probably be sure what the hollows themself are able to do.
    One thing I never understood about the cloak is the extend of it's invisibility. Could you be seen by certain spells or moodys eye?. What about muggle things like throwing paint on the cloak?. Would the paint cover it and make you stand out?.
    But I agree with Manatheron that they are Deus Ex Machinas.
     
  13. Toujourss Pur

    Toujourss Pur First Year

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    Well, it can certainly be seen by Moody's eye, as shown in the fourth book, and dementors can also track people under it. The special thing about it is its durability and the enchantments that make it impossible to summon, maybe among other kinds of spells.
     
  14. syed

    syed Supermod

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    I wonder if moody eye was enchanted by the elder wand. We don't actually know how the eye works or even perceives things. We know there are ways to detect the cloak, that it focuses on hidding visually and magically. If the eye gives a kind of echo location, then it could have seen Harry under the cloak.
    I could see the eye being the focal point for numerous, information gathering, divination and sensory spells as possible. Huge advantage for a dark wizard hunter. So even if it could not detect Harry directly, it would gather enough information to realise Harry is there indirectly.
     
  15. seis

    seis Squib

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    So the Cloak of Invisibility is not invisible? And it won't hide you from Dementors, which are "modern" death in a sense. What a rip-off.
     
  16. Methos

    Methos Fourth Year

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  17. syed

    syed Supermod

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    What if the cloak was enchanted with magics more akin to warding.
     
  18. AzaleaE

    AzaleaE Squib

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    I think quantifying the original powers of each of the deathly hallows is a good idea. My mind immediately jumps to questions about the Elder Wand. What is it that makes it so powerful? Is it amplifying the magic of the user, or just creating a better conduit between the user and their magic?

    If the first, it has some very interesting implications. Where is that extra power coming from? (Not that power in JK Rowling's world seems to adhere to the any sort of Law of Conservation.)

    If it's just creating a better conduit, it should be possible to replicate that.
     
  19. Madval29

    Madval29 Squib

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    From the original post, I would argue that there are positives and negatives to accepting death. There is something to be said for overindulgence. By accepting death too much, there is no caution. By not accepting death, there is too much caution. I wonder if you think that Harry survived because he was the Master of Death or simply because of the horcrux. Maybe a mix of the two? Let me know.
     
  20. syed

    syed Supermod

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    The fact the elder wand rightfully under Harry command, and his own wand had triumphed over toms, could have at least weakened/messed the spell enough to ensure only the soul piece was affected.
     
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