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New PC

Discussion in 'Tech Support' started by Eilyfe, Mar 28, 2015.

  1. Eilyfe

    Eilyfe Chief Warlock

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    Hey, I recently thought about getting a new rig but I’m fairly inexperienced when it comes to this stuff. So, faced with this disability, I thought I might as well ask some of the more tech-savvy people here. There are bound to be some, right? Right?

    First of all, the price range is somewhere up to 900-1000 €. I want it to be a gaming rig, so it should pack quite a punch for that money.

    This is what I have found so far, and I’m by no means confident in this selection:

    • Case: Coolermaster – Silencio 452 (63,66 €)
    • Mainboard: MSI 970 Gaming, AMD 970/SB950 (110,86 €)
    • CPU: AMD FX-6350, 6x 3.9GHz (129,00 €)
    • Graphic Card: AMD Radeon R9 280 3GB, MSI Gaming 3G (226,13 €)
    • RAM: 8GB Corsair Vengeance DDR3-1866 (2x4GB) (86,49 €)
    • Power: 600W – BeQuiet! Straight Power E10 CM (109,75 €)
    • CPU cooler: BeQuiet! Dark Rock 3 (54,90 €)
    • Fans: 2x Noiseblocker NB-eLoop (40 €)

    = 820,80 €

    I will reuse my old hard drives (1x Samsung SSD 840 EVO 120GB; 1x 1000GB called I-don't-know-what) and my old disk drive.

    I’d be grateful if someone could tell me if that’s a good selection or a horrible one.
     
  2. Jpzh2d

    Jpzh2d Disappeared

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    Are you sure you want an AMD build. AMD are renown for consuming a load of power, giving off a load of heat and not being as good as intel CPUs (in some cases). An intel i5 would give you the same performance (or better) whithout the negatives of an AMD CPU although the price might be a slight bit more. EDIT - Unless you plan on doing any 3D work, suing photoship or any other editing suite intesively the 6 cores of the AMD CPU wont help you.

    The same goes for AMD GPUs. A decent nVidia GTX 960 (The MSI one) would cost you 218.53 € which is the same as the AMD card. Now, I can't speak for it's performance personally because I have a 980 but from the reviews it seems to offer very good in game performance and is still quieter than an AMD GPU and more efficient.

    For your power supply I'd say that's a good choice as BeQuiet! are German which means great build quality, and are known for producing quiet products. The same goes for the cooler and whilst people may say that it is a bitch to install it actually isn't. When I installed I found it easy to install although it did cause memory clearance issues so I'd suggest replacing the DDR3 Vengeance with the low profile version which would still fit even with the Dark Rock cooler.

    For your fans I can't really say anything as I've never heard of them but I can reccommend the BeQuiet! Silent Wing fans as I have them myself and I've not had any problems with them.

    I'll post later with an alternate intel build that you may like but if you want the AMD stuff I'd say it's quite a good build but I'll do some research on the parts to see if they are okay.
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2015
  3. Eilyfe

    Eilyfe Chief Warlock

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    I have no idea if I want an AMD or an intel build to be honest. I didn't know the advantages of either when I made this selection and simply went for one. Definitely thanks for the help though, appreciate it!
     
  4. Joe's Nemesis

    Joe's Nemesis High Score: 2,058 ~ Prestige ~

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    EVGA 02G-P4-2966-KR GeForce GTX 960 Gaming 2GB 128-Bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 HDCP Ready SLI Support SuperSC ACX 2.0+ Video ... $205.00

    ASUS Z97-A LGA 1150 Intel Z97 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard $139.00

    Intel Core i5-4670K Haswell Quad-Core 3.4GHz LGA 1150 84W BX80646I54670K Desktop Processor Intel HD Graphics $235.00

    Memory will work in both - especially with Asus's MemOK button. Although I'm a bit more partial to the Ripjaws. I've had better luck OCing them, but that's really not an issue here. So . . .

    Total before shipping, US $580.00 = 533,00 €. 67,00 € more than what you currently have. And that's an unlocked "k" chip and a board that's built for overclocking. If you want to spend less, you can. Also, make sure to download the fix for your EVO 840.


    On the other hand, there's not a whole lot wrong with AMD either. Intel will handle multitasking better and traditionally, AMD gave you more power at a cheaper price. But when you move up into the quality chips (I5, I7) from what I've seen, there's little value in AMD over Intel anymore. So if you're going with a quality chip, I'd switch over, but if you want a budget build at the lower end, go with AMD as Intel will stay fairly more expensive for decent chips in the lower range (I3, for instance). You jump back into the pentiums and celerons, but I tend to shy away from those because I do too much heavy computer work.
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2015
  5. Sacro

    Sacro Seventh Year

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    Firstly, consider buying from Mindfactory (or be even smarter and use Geizhals.de), since Alternate tends to be on the expensive side (though be aware that Mindfactory isn't the best when it comes to RMA's - Alternate is much better there, but like I said more expensive). Jpzh2d is right that Intel CPU's are better, but completely wrong when the GTX 960 is concerned. That GPU barely has a right to exist if you ask me (at least at it's current price), since the memory-interface is ridicolously low at only 128bit and the 2GB of VRAM are also not really that great and future proof - plus the 280X, is generally faster (though of course that's always different from game to game) and has 3GB VRAM, which makes it the obvious choice to buy between those two.

    Now with that all said, I'd advise you to wait before you buy a GPU, since AMD will release it's new 300 series in June (at least according to newest rumors - might be sooner but probably not later than that). Now some general advice for an Intel build. If you don't plan to do any video editing or overclocking, then you can simply get an i5 4460 with a H97 board, bump the PSU down to the 500W E10 (since 600 is way overkill) and get the Cruciall Ballistix Sport 1600 RAM instead of the 1866 Corsair one, since there's basically no difference where speed is concerned. If you do want to do video editing but no overclocking exchange the 4460 for the Xeon e3-1231 v3.

    If you do plan on overclocking get the i5 4690K and a Z97 board instead. As for the GPU, like I said I would wait, but if you don't want to either get the R9 280X, or if have a little more left in your budget get a R9 290 (the one from Asus is currently 285€). Also, if you don't want to actually build the PC yourself, ordering from Hardwareversand would be best, since they actually build if for you for 30€ if you prefer that. Mindfactory also offers that, but they want 100€ for it which is far to much.
    E. C. Scrubb
    You can't really simply convert Dollar prices to Euro. With the Euro falling so low in recent times, hardware has become more expensive over here. The Evga 960 is currently $231, the Asus Z97-A is currenty $162 and the 4670K is currenty $254.
     
  6. Joe's Nemesis

    Joe's Nemesis High Score: 2,058 ~ Prestige ~

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    Sacro -

    Interesting concerning hardware prices. Didn't know that.

    One place I'd disagree with your post is on the PSU. It never hurts to get a larger PSU. It's not like it will shove all that extra power through the computer, or waste it. Sure, there might be a small efficiency issue in power consumption, but on the other hand, I've always thought it good to leave headroom for upgrades when it comes to power supplies.
     
  7. Trooper

    Trooper Death Eater

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    In my opinion, AMD is pretty much a poor graphics developer's/Gamer's workhorse at this moment (saying this since that is what I work part time and this is what I own, lol).
    I would say go for Intel/nVidia if you have the money and if you're looking at peak performance.
    And yes, there will be a price difference. It might be small difference in individual parts but it does add up.
    And I'm not sure about Germany, but India has a ridiculous import levies added. So the difference between AMD and Intel/nVidia builds is huge here. So its something for you to check

    Second, is Gaming the only resource intensive thing you're going to be doing?
    If it is, then Intel/nVidia is better at that. The Price is of course going to be higher.

    The FX 6350 is value for money. You get a little more than what you pay for. But its not the best performance-wise. Again, there's almost a 5000Rs (~80 Euro) difference between the 6350 and the nearest i5. But the i5 will obviously perform better.
    You decide if the performance difference is worth paying the extra money.

    The R9 280, 280X and their previous iterations are all mining cards. As in cards used to mint virtual currency. Basically from most accounts I hear of, their price is inflated at least a little.
    So, my question is, when you say Gaming, What kind of gaming? Do you want to play ultra settings at 1080p? Do you want to play all games at ultra setting at 4k resolution?
    Do you absolutely want 60FPS or greater in all the games you play?
    Do you want to play Witcher 3 or similar games?
    AMD cards basically perform a little better than nVidia at 4K resolution.
    But nVidia is better at using two cards at once. SLI/Crossfire.
    nVidia also has the advantage of PhysX. You can use an old or a very cheap simplistic card in one of your PCIe slots specifically for PhysX.

    Again, if money is a constraint, and if you're fine playing games at Full-HD and better than average FPS (<60), then I would suggest you take a look at either R7 260, 265 or R9270 or R9270x. They are basically at half the price of the R9 280/280x here.

    Or if you're fine with the R9 280 amount, check the price for R9 280x. Its worth it.
    (Disclosure: I own an R9 280X. A Sapphire version. Found it to be a little bit more stable than my previous XFX version 7790. Since I can't pay for Pro-cards apart from outdated V4800, lol)

    It pretty much boils down to your balance of Money-Usage-Performance.

    Obviously, if you're looking for bragging rights, its an entirely different ball-game.
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2015
  8. Eilyfe

    Eilyfe Chief Warlock

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    Okay, so I went to hardwareversand.de (thanks for the hint!) and fiddled around with the configurator there. Ideally, I want the pc to arrive in one piece (though small things like installing the graphic card I can do myself).

    This is what I arrived at now:


    • Intel Core i5-4460 186,75 €
    • MSI H97 GAMING 3, Sockel 1150, ATX 116,54 €
    • be quiet! Dark Rock 3 63,42 €
    • 8GB-Kit Crucial Ballistix Sport Series DDR3-1600, CL9 62,06 €
    • Cooler Master Silencio 452 black 59,40 €
    • be quiet! Pure Power L8 CM 630 Watt 86,91 €
    • Getting it all put together 29,99 €

    Which puts me at 605 €. My budget ceiling is 1000 €, so I actually now have ~400 € air for a good graphic card.

    So far I've looked into the GTX 960, the R9 280, and now with the higher budget also into the R9 290x (which, coincidentally, costs ~400€). The last one - if I take it - I'd order seperately and build it in myself.

    Opinions on the R9 290x?

    Trooper
    Ultra at 1080p is what I'm aiming for.
    60 FPS would be nice if achievable with that rig.

    Definitely. This buy is aimed at the Witcher 3 and, therefore, also at similar games.

    Ps: I kept with the 600+ power supply as I believe there's a great deal of logic behind leaving room for improvement.

    Also, thanks for the help guys!
     
  9. Jpzh2d

    Jpzh2d Disappeared

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    I would add that you have got to make sure you get a fully modular PSU. Non-modular just screw up airflow. Also, I'm going to restate this point because of its importance. If you get a Dark Rock 3 make sure you get low profile (vengeance LPX) RAM because the cooler causes clearance issues. I'm not sure if other companies like GSkill do low profile RAM.

    Sacro - in regards to the AMD 300 series GPUs I've heard that they contain quite a few rebrands. And there isn't any point in waiting for them anyway, as they will have quite a price premium and will be unlikely to match the high end nVidia GPUs in performance, power consumption and noise.

    Eilyfe - what resolution do you want to game at. And are you including a monitor in your build or do you already have one?

    EDIT: Didn't see you had already posted again.
     
  10. Trooper

    Trooper Death Eater

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    Eilyfe : Aight. Witcher 3, the resolution and your budget clear a lot of things.
    In which case, I would say the R9 280X is minimum requirement for you. The R9 290/290X would be better.
    That said, the 290/290X is a heat machine. You're gonna need extensive cooling.

    The i5 is good. But with the R9 290/290X you're probably looking at liquid cooling or an Air cooling with a large Heat Sink.
    The stock one is not going to be enough (Or that may just be India). My older i5 Sandybridge heated up even with the 7790. I know Sandybridge had problems, but still...
    Also look if the Heat Sink you end up buying will interfere with the RAM. Doesn't happen generally with ATX boards, but doesn't hurt to check.
     
  11. Sacro

    Sacro Seventh Year

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    Yes in the latest driver it was revealed that the low-end models will most likely be a bunch of rebrands (up to the 370). As for them not beating nvidia, we don't know yet - the 390X (and possibly 390) will at least use better VRAM (HBM) that should give them an advantage there, and as for performance well, the 390X will probably be more powerfull than the 980 at the least (and probably also the TitanX), at least if the leaked specs are to be believed that speak of the raw power being at 8.6 TFLOPS (the 980 has 5, and the TitanX that's about 20% faster than the 980 should be around 6 for comparison).

    But as you can see that's all speculation which is pointless in the end. Waiting would be the best option, and if the 300 series turns out to be bad you can always buy a different card (which might then be cheaper because of the 300 series being released (and possibly the Euro getting stronger again)). So Eilyfe if you can wait, then buying a GPU later would be best (you can still buy the rest of the PC now and either use your old GPU, if you have one, or use the integrated GPU for now).

    If you don't want to wait, then here is a test about different 290X versions. Take the cheapest, quitest and coolest one (prices vary quite a bit - the VaporX, which is the winner in that test, is currently far to expensive (imo) at around 400€, while some other models like the one from Asus are currently at around 330€ - use Geizhals.de to get the best price). Be aware that in the test there's also normal 290's - don't confuse the two since the 290X is of course faster than the normal 290.
    Trooper
    I think you're exaggerating the heat production of the 290(x) a bit. In the test I linked most cards (except for the reference and Asus one) stay at about 80°C under load - that's pretty normal and even some 980 versions (like the zotac 980 omega) reach that temperature. All you really need is a good airflow in the case to get the heat out and you're good. Even the stock intel cooler would probably suffice for the CPU.
     
  12. Joe's Nemesis

    Joe's Nemesis High Score: 2,058 ~ Prestige ~

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    All this talk about GPUs is making me jealous. I'm still running a BFG GTX 280 as my main card and a 9400 GT for a second and third monitor.
     
  13. Eilyfe

    Eilyfe Chief Warlock

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    If possible I'd rather not wait that much longer for a new set of GPUs to come out. I'm an impatient individual by nature.

    What is the different between modular and non-modular? Also, I've no idea what you mean with low profile (something to do with the shape of the RAM?). If you could clarify on those points I'd be grateful.
    @Sacro: I'll look into the tests. The 290x sounds more and more like a good choice.
     
  14. Sacro

    Sacro Seventh Year

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    The difference between a modular and non-modular PSU is that the cables are not attached from the start. You can take each cable (except the 24-pin for the mainboard) off if you don't need it, which makes cable management easier and also improves airflow by not having useless cables flying around. Also, I saw that you downgraded your PSU choice from the E10 to the L8. If possible, stay with the E10, since it's newer and more efficent.
     
  15. Joe's Nemesis

    Joe's Nemesis High Score: 2,058 ~ Prestige ~

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    Be careful, however. Some PCUs will say "full modular and aren't. Look at the pictures if you can. For instance, some will say it, but only have two or three connections, which means you have to plug in all the cords anyway, even if you don't want all of them. Others will say it, but the 24-pin is connected (this isn't a problem since you'll use the 24-pin anyway). If you get up in quality (and power) you'll get true modular PCUs where everything is plugged in.

    What you want is one of the latter two. This way, you don't have excess cords hanging out, as others have said.

    Oh yeah, if you're building. Please remember to buy thermal paste, and build either on a surface that cannot conduct static electricity while always grounding yourself before reaching for a part, or take normal precautions. Believer it or not, a static discharge can screw up certain computer parts.

    Also, make sure you're not forgetting normal stuff, like a mouse, keyboard, OS, etc. You may already have those, but they're the types of things often forgot when someone starts thinking about building a rig.
     
  16. Sacro

    Sacro Seventh Year

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    The E10 is fully modular, except for the 24-pin (and making that modular is frankly idiotic, since you'll always need it anyways, like you already said). be quiet! generally has none of those "modular but everythings is on one cable so not really modular" PSU's. You'll generally only find those in the low-end spectrum (though that might be different on the US market - after all you guys over there also don't like multi-rail PSU's from what I've heard), and I wouldn't trust my (or any) system with those low-end PSU's anyway. Never buy LC-Power. Never.
     
  17. Joe's Nemesis

    Joe's Nemesis High Score: 2,058 ~ Prestige ~

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    I have a corsair AX1200 that is completley modular, including the 24 pin. I like because it's nice to be able to remove it when I'm messing with wiring or pulling a board off. That way, I don't have to fight with a thick rope of wires. But other than that, no, there's really no need for something like that.
     
  18. Sechrima

    Sechrima Disappeared

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    This isn't really relevant to this specific thread, but is an R9 280X going to be sufficient to run The Witcher 3 at a good graphical level?
     
  19. Jpzh2d

    Jpzh2d Disappeared

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    What rig do you have that requires a 1200 Watt PSU?

    Normal ram comes with heatspreaders (the things that stick off the top of the vengeance ram) that all the ram to dissipate heat more easily. The problem is that this makes the RAM taller than it usually would be and with large CPU coolers it might not fit into the RAM socket because the cooler can cover some of the sockets. Low Profile RAM does not have any heatspreaders on top of it and so it can fit in the RAM sockets even when the sockets are covered by a CPU cooler.

    If you are getting a BeQuiet! Drak Rock Pro 3 cooler you are going to need Low Profile RAM because it is such a large cooler it covers the majority of the sockets. Don't worry though, there isn't really any difference in terms of performance between the normal RAM and Low Profile RAM.

    Normal Vengeance RAM -- http://www.hardwareversand.de/1600+...t+Corsair+Vengeance+DDR3+1600+MHz+CL9.article

    Low Profile RAM -- http://www.hardwareversand.de/1600+...file+schwarz+PC3-12800U+CL10-10-10-27.article

    As you can see the normal RAM has the 'spiky' heatspreaders and the Low Profile RAM does not.
     
  20. Sacro

    Sacro Seventh Year

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    He'll be getting the Crucial Ballistix RAM anyway, which is already low profile, so there's nothing really to worry about there. Of course if even that would be too high, there's always the low profile version of it.