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Poland Elections

Discussion in 'Politics' started by ScottPress, Aug 8, 2015.

  1. ScottPress

    ScottPress The Horny Sovereign ~ Prestige ~

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    @Celestin what scandal? I must admit I don't follow domestic news.
     
  2. Celestin

    Celestin The Cursed Child

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    Onet revealed that a vice-minister of justice was working with some woman to discredit judges that disagreed with current reforms and more importantly, because most expected something like that, they have a proof from said woman. The minister says he wasn't aware of that and already dismissed him, but everything suggests it's not the end.
     
  3. Jibril

    Jibril Headmaster

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    Standard authoritarian practice of discrediting your opponents. Hopefully the elections will not be falsified, though PiS is capable of anything.

    @Celestin I'm not sure they will get constitutional majority. PiS will win the elections, PO will be second but Lewica will probably be able to prevent PiS from having 2/3 of Sejm. Also, hopefully the Senat stratagem will payoff.
     
  4. Andrela

    Andrela Plot Bunny DLP Supporter

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    Yes! For example my home country of Poland.
     
  5. ScottPress

    ScottPress The Horny Sovereign ~ Prestige ~

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    Our govt is full of cunts, but saying stuff like this just makes you look like one of those woke wallflowers who call everything they disagree with "Nazi".
     
  6. Chengar Qordath

    Chengar Qordath The Final Pony ~ Prestige ~

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    Yeah, from my outsider perspective PiS definitely doesn't seem like a party I care for, but the only thing they have in common with Nazis is being right of center. From I can tell from a quick wiki-walk, their ideology is far closer to a traditional conservative talking points than any flavor of fascism.

    Not to mention it shows yet another problem with the whole "Nazis should be outside the protection of the law" declaration: how exactly are we defining what counts as a Nazi? Fascism as an ideology is notoriously hard to pin down, and "fascist" is pretty frequently used as a pejorative for anything that's right of center or authoritarian.
     
  7. Xiph0

    Xiph0 Administrator Admin

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    Wasn't PiS stacking the judicial system with their own judges?
     
  8. Arthellion

    Arthellion Lord of the Banned ~ Prestige ~

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    I can't read PiS without thinking "Plot Induced Stupidity."
     
  9. ScottPress

    ScottPress The Horny Sovereign ~ Prestige ~

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    They were. They tried to forcibly retire judges they didn't like from our Constitutional Tribunal, the very institution that's supposed to check the govt, and the move was blatantly obvious because they said judges must retire at X age, which would get rid of the President of the Court, but then wanted to replace her with a dude older than her.
     
  10. Chengar Qordath

    Chengar Qordath The Final Pony ~ Prestige ~

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    To bring it back to the topic of the thread, while court-packing is not a nice thing it's something that's pretty standard political shenanigans that's been practiced by both the left and right at various times and circumstances. Just look at FDR's court-packing scheme to try and get his way with the New Deal. Court-packing doesn't make PiS Nazis, just assholes.
     
  11. ScottPress

    ScottPress The Horny Sovereign ~ Prestige ~

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    @Chengar Qordath

    I agree, it's standard politics, even though we all wish it wasn't. I wasn't calling PiS Nazis.
     
  12. Chengar Qordath

    Chengar Qordath The Final Pony ~ Prestige ~

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    Figured as much.
     
  13. Xiph0

    Xiph0 Administrator Admin

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    Court stacking isn't what makes them nazis, it's what they intended to do with the court moreso. As Scott mentioned it was their constitutional court and a major power check on potential overreach by any one administration.
     
  14. Chengar Qordath

    Chengar Qordath The Final Pony ~ Prestige ~

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    Was FDR a Nazi for trying to do his own court packing? Is anyone with some worrying authoritarian tendencies a Nazi?

    Is this Tumblr now, where we scream Nazi at everything we don't like? You're Nazis, they're Nazis, everybody's a Nazi!

    It reduces the term to utter meaninglessness. I'd say that the ridiculous over-saturation of the term is probably part of what made it possible for the actual Nazis to stage a comeback—the word got overused to the point that people forgot what actual Nazis looked like and why they were bad. Now it's just a generic insult for any political thing someone doesn't like.

    Not to mention the whole discussion kind of off-topic, and goes in the Polish politics thread.
     
  15. Xiph0

    Xiph0 Administrator Admin

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    Perfectly happy to move it there. I don't think it's a stretch to say Law and Justice has a real stench of fascism around it if you pay even a minimum of attention to what they say and do, especially since they gained the government.
     
  16. Chengar Qordath

    Chengar Qordath The Final Pony ~ Prestige ~

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    Not being wild about LGBT is pretty standard fare for conservatives, especially when a lot of that push seems to be coming from the Catholic Church/Christian Pov as opposed to "These untermensch diminish the purity of our glorious race!" By the same token, growing authoritarianism and human rights issues are bad, but hardly the sole purview of fascists.

    Not all right-of-center assholes are fascists.
     
  17. Longsword

    Longsword Groundskeeper

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    Saw something funny :
    xhuq7xpn37031.png

    Meant for the previous European elections, but it should still apply.
     
  18. ScottPress

    ScottPress The Horny Sovereign ~ Prestige ~

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    Four more years of this circus, and who knows what lies beyond? The ride never ends.

    Results on the govt website (in English) for those who want to browse: https://wybory.gov.pl/sejmsenat2019/en/wyniki/sejm/pl

    To sum up: Law & Justice (PiS) got 43,6% of votes for the Sejm (lower house of parliament) winning 51% of seats (235/460), so they once again have a comfortable majority to push their bullshit through. I look forward to more votes conducted in the middle of the night, possibly without a quorum and no opposition MPs present. I wonder if they'll deliver on the promises of more money per child for parents. Look, I'm not American, I don't think all socialism is of the Devil, but there are bad social programs and 500+ (financial aid for parents, paid out per child after the first kid IIRC, so with two kids you'd get PLN500) is one of them.

    PiS also grabbed 48 out of 100 Senate seats, so at least they don't have an outright majority there, but I don't know how much of a barrier that'll be for them. Point is, they remain the largest bloc by far, which is bad. The second largest chunk of seats in the Sejm goes to a coalition, not even a single party, and they got 134 seats out of 460, 27,4% of the overall vote.

    There is a good bit of news. Turnout was reported at 61,74%, which is the second highest since the fall of communism--it was 62,70% in 1989. Since then, turnout has oscillated between low 40s and high 50s for parliamentary elections specifically. This is a huge jump from 2015 (50,92%) and 2011 (48,92%). I hope this is a trend and that it continues.
     
  19. Celestin

    Celestin The Cursed Child

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    The turnout is especially surprising after rather lacking campaigns from pretty much all parties and less mobilising atmosphere than in the last two elections. Maybe people really start feeling that giving their vote matters.

    The turnout for presidential election could be even better since it's always the most popular vote in our country.
     
  20. Innomine

    Innomine Headmaster ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    It's not that socialism and capitalism are inherently good or bad. You can have extremely ineffectively socialist policies, just as you can have extremely ineffective capitalist policies.

    It aint about what side of the spectrum you are on, as much as how well you do what you do.

    A big problem right now, is that many political parties are using 'socialist' or populist money giveaways as a way to buy votes, rather than deliver good outcomes.

    I got no clue about Poland, but that may be what's happening here?

    (Btw, calling wealth redistribution socialism is a big misnomer. Socialism is about social ownership of the means of production, rather than private. The US calls everything left of the extreme right socialism because of the red scare. Probably best to ignore them on this one.)
     
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