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Tennis

Discussion in 'Real Life Discussion' started by Celestin, Jul 14, 2019.

  1. Celestin

    Celestin The Cursed Child

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    Because I couldn't find a general thread for tennis, I decided to make one.

    That match between Djokovic and Federer was simply amazing, even if they both weren't exactly playing at their best. And if it was about overall performance, I would say Federer was the one that should win it, but it was Djokovic that played his best when it counted the most and in the end that matters more in this game.

    Though, while I agree that the tie-breaks are necessary for other matches, it shouldn't be how the final match is decided. It was a very anticlimactic ending to one of the more exciting finales in history.
     
  2. Darth_Revan

    Darth_Revan Secret Squirrel ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    It was certainly different, but I wouldn't describe it as anticlimactic. On the contrary, as John McEnroe said while commentating, I think they both played more aggressively and physically up to the tiebreaker because they knew they wouldn't be going for a marathon fifth set.

    It'll take a bit of getting used to, but after 12 games all, they've had enough chances to break and capitalize.
     
  3. silentclock

    silentclock Minister of Magic DLP Supporter

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    Roger Federer is my favorite athlete. Past, present, or future. This sport or any other. I’m gutted that he couldn’t convert on 2 championship points on his serve. Still an incredible match. There’s not much that can keep me on the edge of my seat for 5 hours.

    On the subject of the 5th set breaker: I don’t hate it, but I don’t know that it accomplishes its goal. If the point it to make sure that players can have a real shot at being competitive in the next round, then I don’t think this gets it done. No way Nole or Fed could play again in 2 days.
     
  4. Celestin

    Celestin The Cursed Child

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    While I agree that 12 games are more than enough chances, the time-breaks always feel to me like they're there just to force the ending instead of getting a honest outcome of the match. This is why I always liked the Grand Slams more than other tournaments.

    Changing the subject a little, but I'm really conflicted about the state of today's tennis. On the one hand, it's definitely the Age of the Titans that probably won't happen again for the very long time. On the other, while it's not easy to compete against the Big Four, I would expect someone from the younger generation (people younger than 30 at the moment) to actually be up to this challenge by now. Instead only Stan Wawrinka who is only younger than Federer managed to regularly put a fight against them in the Grand Slams. I would like there to be new Champions who would prove their worth when playing against the Big Four at their best instead of getting their Grand Slams when they're all retired or simply out of shape.
     
  5. Longsword

    Longsword Seventh Year

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    Four ? Who would include Murray ?
     
  6. Celestin

    Celestin The Cursed Child

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    Murray problem is that he's one of the best players in history born when there are three guys competing for a title of the greatest of all time.

    I personally include him because then with him included you get a very nice statistic to which Murray adds over 10% to the Big Four record. While a lot less than other three, it's very impressive when compared to 17% of the rest of the field.

    Top-Level tournament records 2005–present:

    Big Four
    Grand Slam Tournaments 51 / 57
    ATP World Tour Masters 1000 102 / 126
    ATP Finals 10 / 13
    Olympic Games 3 / 3
    Total 166 / 199 = 83.42%

    Rest of the field
    Grand Slam Tournaments 6 / 57
    ATP World Tour Masters 1000 24 / 126
    ATP Finals 3 / 13
    Olympic Games 0 / 3
    Total 33 / 199 = 16.58%
     
  7. Darth_Revan

    Darth_Revan Secret Squirrel ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    I'm always up for rooting for new blood in the game, but if the Greats are going to continue to raise the standard of play and hold it there, then things aren't going to change. Besides, the ranks of 5-20 seeds are mostly old faces as well.

    Who do you have an eye on as an up-and-comer, @Celestin ?
     
  8. Longsword

    Longsword Seventh Year

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    People used to say that nobody would be equalling Sampras' record of 14.
    Then all three broke that. Imagine the record number of slams if just one of the three had not existed.
    If only one of the three had existed then the number of slams per person would be > 30.
     
  9. silentclock

    silentclock Minister of Magic DLP Supporter

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    Tsitsipas is the smart bet as of now. But then I once thought Raonic would eventually be ranked number 1, so take my opinion for what it’s worth. Zverev doesn’t seem to have what it takes mentally.
     
  10. Celestin

    Celestin The Cursed Child

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    I'm definitely biased, but Hubert Hurkacz has a potential to one day win the Grand Slams.

    Of players under 25 years old only Tsitsipas and Zverev present some regularity, but not enough to confirm that they will aim for the highest titles. Zverev was probably the closest, but this season is rather weak for him and like silentclock mentioned, he has problems with bringing his best game to the Grand Slams.

    After yesterday match I was considering which of the Trivalry players could be considered the best of them, arguably the best of all time, and this is my opinion at the moment. It could change in the future.

    The two big problem with their rivalry is the fact that we have three players instead of just two to rate against each other and that Federer is 5 years older, always questioning how well he would play if he was on their level physically.

    First of all, the best player on average is Djokovic. Not by a great margin, but he can play the other two on all surfaces and, with an exception of clay, win more often than not. Even his record against Nadal on clay is quite impressive (17-7).

    If nothing drastically changes, the title of the Best Player of All Time should go to him.

    Yet, the best is not necessary the greatest.

    Even if by the end he's probably not going to be the one with the most Grand Slams, I would argue that Roger Federer is the greatest because of his skill in playing tennis that allows him to be on top for more than 15 years and challenge equally good players while 5 years their senior. Especially his last match, almost won, is the best example of that. While I put Djokovic as better on average, if their roles were reversed, I doubt he would manage to be as close to winning as Federer was. Because of that I would give the Federer the title of the Greatest Player of All Time.

    And what about Nadal? Well, in my opinion he is a little worse than both Federer and Djokivic on hard and grass courts. At the same time, if you switched clay and hard courts then without a doubt he would dominate tours like no one before him. He's simply the King of Clay and while his rivals are only a little better than him on other surfaces, he's on a different level than them on his best one. For that I would give him the title of the Most Gifted Player of the All Time.
     
  11. Sey

    Sey Seyberbully DLP Supporter

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  12. Hymnsicality

    Hymnsicality Sixth Year

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    Obviously the answer of who should champion the next gen is Kyrgios the Destroyer.



    It really does not feel like it at all. If Federer has always been the epitome of talented genius and effortless class, Rafa has always bee the determinator. He grinds and he grunts and he sweats and he pounds his way to victory. He's clearly capable of phenomenal shot making but Federer has always been the gifted one out of the two.

    I have my issues with the big three. Federer is basically ad-man the polished chronically dull ambassador for tennis, Rafa's gamesmanship is disgraceful and Djokovic plays dull tennis and tries so hard to be as liked Federer it comes off as cringe a lot of the time.

    Nonetheless they are clearly the best at what they do, RF has no right almost winning Wimbledon at 37 and none of the next-gen look remotely close at unseating them at any slam.

    Zverev and Tsitsipas maybe for hardcourt. But all evidence points to them still being too mentally fragile to properly challenge. Potentially Thiem for clay but he couldn't even beat Djoko nevermind Nadal.

    I have high hopes for Aliassime, De Minaur and Medvedev but none of them seem dominant enough even at such a young age. Potentially Delpo could steal one if he recovers enough but everything seems like a long shot for the next couple of years at least.
     
  13. Celestin

    Celestin The Cursed Child

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    While it was a close call and the weather was involved more than it should, Thiem did beat Djoko in the end in Franch Open 2019.
     
  14. Hymnsicality

    Hymnsicality Sixth Year

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    Thiem is probably the closest. He truly is dominant on clay, tactically sound with phenomenal power, endurance and shot selection. The only issue is that he is just nowhere near good enough to take on rafa at RG and while still good on other surfaces never seemed like a contender at the other slams. If he can outlast Rafa I'd say he's a shoo in for a slam.

    Probably my fav next gen is Medvedev but only when he's losing which is odd. Like he plays some strange tennis when on the back foot and it's glorious.

    Do feel sorry for Federer though, wimbledon felt written in the stars for him but Djokovic can keep such a cool head under pressure. He did deserve the win.
     
  15. Celestin

    Celestin The Cursed Child

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    This match is probably going to haunt him more than 2008. Unlike his match with Nadal, there is no question that he was better than Djokovic for most of the game, just not in these few moments he needed to be to finish and win it.
     
  16. Hymnsicality

    Hymnsicality Sixth Year

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    100% Agree. Federer's level throughout wimbledon had been insane. His control of tempo and ability to take the time away from nadal and djokovic and keep the points short even though they new exactly what he was doing was sublime. Not to mention his backhand has gotten even better with age (and a racket change) and his bag of tricks seems to have only grown with time. Also the fact that he's late thirties and still playing 5 set slogs is just unfair. Like actually soul crushingly unfair.

    I was born and raised in Australia and Hewitts loved but also such a meme in the country. Every Australian open up until his early 30's they'd tout him as a contender and point to the "great rivalry" he had with Federer and give him centre court matches when he seriously had no right being there based on merit. And the saddest thing? Every day he watches highlights of his glory days. He made a bargain bin documentary about himself and he watches it every week. It must be soul crushing the Federer, who's virtually the same age, is still so unbelievably good at what he does, he's still making those highlight reels and he's still living in the moment. Federer's sheer talent and unbelievable longevity definitely cements him as one of the greats.

    Maybe Fed will retire this year though if he doesn't win a Grand Slam. It'd be a shame but it's possible.
     
  17. Celestin

    Celestin The Cursed Child

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    While it's possible, I suspect he plans to play as long as his stamina allows him to compete in 5 set matches. This long finale proves that he has few more years before that happens, but unlike younger players, he can't allow himself to play longer games in early stages of the Grand Slams.

    I wouldn't be surprised if Federer and Nadal retired at the same time, whenever it happens. While Rafa has unlimited determination, the number of injures he had will slow him down faster than Federer.

    Djokovic can probably play few years more than them and if nothing changes with younger players, this would allow him easily take the record of the Grand Slam titles.
     
  18. Hymnsicality

    Hymnsicality Sixth Year

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    I honestly cannot see Federer playing past the age of 40 that would be sheer insanity. I can however see Nadal going past the age of 35 so I genuinely can see Nadal outlasting Federer.

    Of course, Djokovic is going to outlast them all. Fucking 8 wins without a loss against Fedal in grandslams is obscene. Dude doesn't have the flair but man does he get the results.

    Happy to see De Minaur clinch his second title. Dude's making a lot with the skillset that he has, including his crazy gambit style of play and limited backhand. Hope to see more of him as an Australian myself. Would be neat if we had a solid player to go alongside Kyrgios, our clown prince of tennis.
     
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