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The Biggest Leak In Intelligence History

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Palindrome, Jul 26, 2010.

  1. Chengar Qordath

    Chengar Qordath The Final Pony Prestige

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  2. Taure

    Taure Magical Core Enthusiast Prestige DLP Supporter

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    Should just expel the diplomats, then go in and arrest the guy.
     
  3. Vir

    Vir Centauri Ambassador Prestige DLP Supporter

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    Eh, they can't really. They're protected under the vienna convention. What they could do is give them a new embassy and revoke the current one then go in and arrest him.
     
  4. Taure

    Taure Magical Core Enthusiast Prestige DLP Supporter

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    Which is why you expel them first.
     
  5. Vir

    Vir Centauri Ambassador Prestige DLP Supporter

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    Simply expelling the diplomats doesn't grant the UK the legal right to enter the embassy. You also need to revoke the embassy status.
     
  6. Hello

    Hello Professor

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    Any chance of them saying "fuck it" and walking in anyway?
     
  7. Darth Disaster

    Darth Disaster The Waking Sith Prestige DLP Supporter

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    With the US Gov Breathing down their necks like an extra-angry-and-impatient Drill Sergeant?

    Chances are pretty high, I'd say. Ecuador can't really do shit to any country who does so. They'll whine to the U.N. The UN will shake it's finger and tell the offending country they don't get any cookies at dinner, then it'll all be over, at least as far as actual ramifications and punishments in the political field go.

    Or so I predict.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2012
  8. Taure

    Taure Magical Core Enthusiast Prestige DLP Supporter

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    I don't think the US would particularly like the precedent set. I mean, consider the recent situation in China - they guy who fled to the US embassy.

    That was somewhat different, as he fled not from criminal charges but out of fear of a particular corrupt official. But still, the stuff he revealed was embarrassing for China. I bet the US is rather glad of the convention on not storming the embassies of other countries.

    Also, I don't think the US really cares about this case much at all. Certainly not enough to destroy a diplomatic convention which has helped them in the past. They care about Wikileaks, but not Assange. Wikileaks has now grown beyond Assange. Sure, they don't like him, but the whole "Sweden will extradite me to the US" bullshit Assange is sprouting is just the ravings of a conspiracy loon with delusions of grandeur. Or, more cynically, someone who really wants to avoid due process and going to trial like the rest of us would have to. He thinks himself above the law.
     
  9. Antivash

    Antivash Until we meet again... DLP Supporter Retired Staff

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    Im disappointed that this statement wasn't immediately followed by Hooray Beer!

    [​IMG]
     
  10. samkar

    samkar Temporarily Banhammered

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    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/02/28/strafor_wikileaks/

    tells a different story
     
  11. Equinox

    Equinox Seventh Year

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    I'm sure they'd love to get their hands on Assange... but as Taure said, that doesn't mean they're going support completely disregarding something like the Vienna Convention.

    What [I think] the US is doing at the moment is the smart thing. Say nothing, wait for him to get sent to Sweden and the outcome of his trial. If he's guilty... well, there isn't going to be much public outcry if a convicted rapist gets extradited to the US. If not, then they can go from there. Trying to make a lot of noise about him now wouldn't serve them very well.
     
  12. samkar

    samkar Temporarily Banhammered

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    He hasn't even been charged in sweden and even if he would be found guilty by their laws it would result into a fine. The European Arrest Warrant can only be issued for offenses carrying a minimum penalty of 12 months. They clearly don't give a crap about such petty details anymore.

    All that money on attorneys and what else thrown away because sweden doesn't want to question him in some embassy or while he lived in some guest house.
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2012
  13. Taure

    Taure Magical Core Enthusiast Prestige DLP Supporter

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    Interesting comment on Reddit.

     
  14. Zennith

    Zennith Pebble Wrestler Prestige

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    Dude, Taure, you keep talking like he's been charged with a crime.

    Protip - he hasn't been.
     
  15. Taure

    Taure Magical Core Enthusiast Prestige DLP Supporter

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    The Swedish legal system requires that people be interviewed before they're charged, so that doesn't mean much. The reason why he hasn't been charged is because he's been evading it.
     
  16. Tehan

    Tehan Avatar of Khorne DLP Supporter

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    If memory serves, Assange said he'd be in Stockholm the next day if Sweden promised they wouldn't extradite him to America.

    Sweden refused.
     
  17. Taure

    Taure Magical Core Enthusiast Prestige DLP Supporter

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    Right. Nation states are not normally in the business in pandering to the special requests of individuals under investigation for crimes. Why should Assange be able to negotiate with a nation about whether he will allow them to investigate him?

    Essentially, Sweden's refusal to commit to something like that doesn't reveal hidden intentions. It's a matter of not showing weakness or allowing individuals dictate terms. Could open the floodgates. It's a "don't negotiate with terrorists" kind of policy.

    For me, the biggest problem with the "they plan to extradite him" issue is that it just doesn't make sense. If the US wanted to extradite Assange, they wouldn't do it from Sweden, with whom they have had some rocky relations. If the US wanted Assange, they'd get him straight from the UK, where it would be significantly easier.
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2012
  18. samkar

    samkar Temporarily Banhammered

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    Taure, remote questioning is common procedure even during trials. If they really wanted to close this PR debacle for sweden they would have.

    Assange is Australian and part of the Commonwealth. I would strongly assume that if there aren't bilateral agreements how to deal with extraditing of common citizens it must be part of the Commonwealth treaty.
     
  19. Vincent

    Vincent Death Eater

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    So the embassy and diplomatic car may be Ecuadorian territory but what about the ground he has to walk on between them? Or between the car and the plane? I don't see how he's going to get out of the country if Britain really wants to grab him.
     
  20. Taure

    Taure Magical Core Enthusiast Prestige DLP Supporter

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    He can't. He's stuck in the embassy for the rest of his life - or until an agreement is reached. Or until there's a political change in Ecuador and the new powers that be change the policy.

    They couldn't even smuggle him out in a diplomatic bag. While they can't be opened, they can be inspected and stopped from progressing further. He'd just get sent right back to the embassy.

    The people who wrote the Vienna Convention knew what they were doing. They added plenty of exceptions for if a nation tries to use conventions designed to protect diplomacy for non-diplomatic means.

    But I think we can rule out the British going in and grabbing him at this stage. Regardless of the legality, it would be immensely unpopular.
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2012
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