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The Lord of the Rings (TV - Amazon))

Discussion in 'Movies, Music and TV shows' started by KHAAAAAAAN!!, Aug 3, 2021.

  1. Drachna

    Drachna Groundskeeper

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    I've watched the first two episodes, and I quite liked them, though the proto hobbit scenes were a mixture of painful and boring (I really wish that they'd hire Irish actors if they insist on portraying them as Irish, even though they're meant to be from the English countryside.)

    • Theo has to be the Witch King of Angmar, right, or one of his ancestors. The flaming sword, the evil heritage, the influence of Sauron... I can see him founding a new kingdom or something and then taking a ring.
    • The Stranger is definitely Gandalf imo. If it was Sauron, he'd be a lot younger and better looking, and an elf instead of a man. He also speaks to the fireflies in a way quite reminiscent of how Gandalf spoke to the butterfly in The Fellowship.
    • I've heard that Isildur is going to be in this show, which means that Sauron has to be defeated within a hundred or so years of the first episode, right? I know that Numenorians are long-lived, but how long lived? Isildur looked around the same age as Aragon in the LOTR flashback, so presumably he was under a hundred when he took the ring, unless Numenorians used to live for a lot longer.
     
  2. ScottPress

    ScottPress The Horny Sovereign ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    Quick google search says that Isildur died at 234, in the second year of the Third Age, so he was 231/232 when he took the Ring. Presumably three thousand years before Aragorn Numenorean blood was stronger so Isildur might have expected to live for a while longer yet. Elros lived for 410 years. Aragorn died of old age at 210. Elendil, Isildur's dad, was killed by Sauron, so still in fighting shape at age 322.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2022
  3. Arthellion

    Arthellion Lord of the Banned ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    Yeah. I am slightly disappointed we're unlikely to get a story spanning a thousand years or so, but I get it.

    Also, really hoping season one ends with Galadriel and Halbrand showing up at a location and Galadriel gets greeted by two elves and she's like, "Meet my husband and daughter."

    [​IMG]
     
  4. Lamora

    Lamora Definitely Not Batman ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    I think it's most likely that the Stranger is Gandalf, purely for the cyclicalism of the first people Gandalf meeting upon descending to Middle Earth being hobbits - thereby sparking his lifelong obsession and kinship with them. I'm also predicting the Brandyfoots being some precursor to the Brandybucks that occurs from some sort of hobbit schism.

    I liked the rest of the show fairly well, but the little hobbit girl honest to god makes me skip large swathes of the hobbit scenes. It sucks because I like the actual structure of her and the Stranger's interaction, it's just her particular execution of it that comes off extremely grating to me.
     
  5. KHAAAAAAAN!!

    KHAAAAAAAN!! Troll in the Dungeon –§ Prestigious §– DLP Supporter

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    Episode 4 is a lore geek FEAST holy shit. So much casually dropped into it. Lots and lots of perfect Quenya, lots of talk of Earendil, more Elros. We got a glimpse of Narsil, some more Beren and Luthien, Tuor's axe and shield (which i really hope come into play in the show at some point), and the dragon helm of Dor-Lomin in the flesh. We got talk of the other palantiri, allusions to the Lords of Andunie, some Tar-Palantir goodness. My head is spinning.

    Halbrand being so obviously Sauron whispering in Pharazon and Galadriel's ear has me thinking he's NOT Sauron now. Adar, the Stranger, and Halbrand are all red herrings, Adar a misdirect for the casuals (he is 100% either Maglor, undead Maeglin, or just one of the corrupted elves that Morgoth used to breed orcs), the Stranger a misdirect for Peter Jackson people (who don't buy into Gandalf / wizard), and Halbrand a misdirect for the Legendarium people.

    Also, just a very strong episode overall. Mawle and Cordova ate up their scenes. Not a single line of horrendously cringe dialogue (beyond Isildur's 'Isil' nickname).

    I love this show. It's such a good slow burn and it is really scratching my Silm itch even though we aren't getting actual Silm stuff.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2022
  6. Celestin

    Celestin Dimensional Trunk

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    The show managed to make me like the characters which is a win in my opinion. Probably the biggest problems I have is the Elves. It's impossible for the to be what they're in the books, but the movies did them better in my opinion. On the other hand the Dwarves and the Orcs are amazing, the Harfoot are pretty good and the humans are, well, what you can expect from humans.
     
  7. Pirazy

    Pirazy Groundskeeper

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    I'm liking Halbrand as Sauron, the irony of Galadriel working so hard to seat him on the throne of the southlands would just be fantastic when he reveals himself, only thing which makes it weird is his eagerness to resort to violence, unless that's somehow part of his plan too.

    Adar was great at being creepy and mysterious too, all these riddles they're setting up are awesome.

    Numenor's destruction was as great as it was tragic, it's a bit weird though how hands-on the valar are with the falling-petals-omen, makes one wonder how Numenor strayed this far if every time they make a wrong choice they get this big visual "are you sure you wanna do this?" hint.

    Really liking the portrayal of Pharazon, they're not making him this over the top mustache twirling obvious baddy. Dude's got charisma and swagger and knows to play the long game with undermining Miriel.
     
  8. Snobbish Wizard

    Snobbish Wizard Muggle

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    Even so, they made his character design superbly to twirl his moustache if the urge strikes him.

    But I'm not sure what Khan is referring to for some of the things he said there were in this episode. I might have missed them - and I am by no definition a Tolkien lore expert - but I don't remember any allusions to Beren and Luthien from this episode (unless we're talking about Arondir saving Theo in the woods with the latter's mother) or Tuor's axe and shield (although I admit I simply do not know about these).

    As for my own commentary of the episode, I quite liked seeing the praying/resonating ceremony led by Disa. It was very beautiful and much more musical than what I originally imagined resonating was like (I may or may not have thought of Dwarves shouting at stone walls, lol) and I loved seeing the show use the Elves' supernatural sight and hearing. I wasn't sure if it would ever come up in a relevant way in the show when Elrond said that Galadriel had gone out of his sight in the first episode. Staying on Disa, am I the only one who had the impression that she looked a tad predatory in the eyes when she was lying to Elrond about Durin's whereabouts? I admit I had a feeling she was about to jump at him for a moment when she looked at him.
     
  9. KHAAAAAAAN!!

    KHAAAAAAAN!! Troll in the Dungeon –§ Prestigious §– DLP Supporter

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    Not an allusion just a visual nod. It was in the hall of heirlooms with Narsil, Tuor's arms, and the helm.
    [​IMG]

    Narsil
    [​IMG]

    Tuor's axe Dramborleg
    [​IMG]

    Tuor's Swan shield
    [​IMG]

    Dragon Helm of Dor-Lomin
    [​IMG]

    They were all blink and you'll miss it. I really would have appreciated a lingering shot of each as Galadriel admires them or something before they head over to the Palantir.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2022
  10. JoJo23

    JoJo23 Auror

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    Given it 4 long episodes to improve. This is about as bad as TV gets. The scripts is woeful. Every scene is like boiled cabbage.
    There is nothing to this show but JJ Abrams mystery boxes.
     
  11. KHAAAAAAAN!!

    KHAAAAAAAN!! Troll in the Dungeon –§ Prestigious §– DLP Supporter

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    This take just genuinely baffles me. YMMV I guess.
     
  12. CrackedMind

    CrackedMind Minister of Magic

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    House of Dragons and LOTR are like the perfect yin-yang. I know they’re competing in viewership, but I really feel like their stories compliment eachother so well. Gives me the backstabby-politics Medieval Fantasy GoT perfected, and then enjoy a much less murky high fantasy.

    I think both are really well done, and I feel spoiled to have both to look forward to every weekend.
     
  13. JoJo23

    JoJo23 Auror

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    Tamar: Elf ships on our shore? Elf workers taking your trades? ( crowd chattering ) Workers who don't sleep, don't tire, don't age. crowd: No! I say, the Queen's either blind or an Elf lover. Just like her father. ( crowd agreeing ) Elf lover! crowd chanting: Elf lover! Elf lover! Elf lover! Elf lover!
    And if the Elf were here now, what would she see? Men of Númenor, or a gaggle of mewling children? We are sons and daughters of the Edain. Of Elros Tar-Minyatur, whose host conquered Morgoth himself. ( crowd chattering ) But now one Elf, a castaway, could threaten us? ( crowd chattering )
    Pharazôn: Look down, each of you, at the guild crests you bear. The heritage of mighty hands. Of men who laid the Sea Wall. Who raised Armenelos, triumph of our civilization. ( crowd responding ) But now, one Elf could threaten us? ( crowd clamoring )
    Pharazôn: My friends... Trust in me. ( crowd cheering ) For by the calluses on my hands, I swear that Elven hands will never take Númenor's helm. ( crowd cheering ) She will remain, as always, a kingdom of Men. ( crowd cheering ) Drinks all around! ( crowd cheering )

    This is just a slight sample of the quality of the scripts in this show. Its like Harry Crow. The whole thing is like this. Its so half assed.
    It would be unfair to the later seasons of GOT and Dexter to compare it with this. Its like Star Wars prequels, or On the Busses. I burst out laughing at the "drinks all round" line, as it was the second time that had happened on the show in like two episodes.

    And its not just the moment to moment dialogue either, nothing happens! The Galadriel plotline is the only one that has even remotely moved. The plotline with Arondir is insane. He gets caught, kills dozens of orcs trying to escape, then gets released? Nothing has happened in the Harfoot storyline. Nothing has happened the the Dwarf storyline.

    Halfway through the season.

    Also, on at least two occasions the director though "blood splatter on the camera lens" was a good idea.

    EDIT: and the accents...
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2022
  14. invinoveri

    invinoveri Third Year

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    I agree. I’m actually surprised so many people here have nice things to say about the show even SteelBadger. I was having a stroke reading some of these comments. It’s not flattering to Tolkien at all. And if they were going to make an OP!Galadriel fanfic, which I would watch, they failed badly.
     
  15. KHAAAAAAAN!!

    KHAAAAAAAN!! Troll in the Dungeon –§ Prestigious §– DLP Supporter

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    Can I ask, are you a Legendarium reader?

    I have poured through the entirety of it multiple times. Even gotten through HoME twice. I like to think I have a pretty solid understanding of Tolkien's themes: hope in the face of evil, loss and how it shapes people, love of nature over industrialism, the inevitability of death and what immortality might do to people, etc.

    For all the lore deviations due to the time compression fucking stuff up, and for the handful of execution/writing misses, this is far far far more in the spirit of Tolkien than Jackson's action comedies were.

    Like, I love those films beyond measure. But Tolkienian adaptations they are not.
     
  16. dudeler

    dudeler Groundskeeper

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    I will hold back on watching the whole thing till the first season is out. I am not even expecting them to actually capture the magic that is Tolkiens work. I read most of it including the books of the lost tales when I was a child/teenager, so it will always be linked to my childhood in a way that a new adaption can not manage.
    But i will be happy, if they had a decent run at it.
    And since steelbadger might be the only fanfic writer who managed to capture Tolkiens "voice" and likes it, I am pretty hopeful.
     
  17. KHAAAAAAAN!!

    KHAAAAAAAN!! Troll in the Dungeon –§ Prestigious §– DLP Supporter

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    Good episode. Not as good as the last but still good. Plot is steamrolling ahead. Good to see the black sword now has a confirmed purpose.

    For the first time I think Galadriel's bits were the high point of an episode. Morfydd got to showcase her range a little more. And that fight scene with the trainees was very nicely choreographed. None of the young soldiers were made to look incompetent for Galadriel's benefit. She was just a graceful nimble elf dancing through swords with ease.

    I continue to fail to see the point of Kemen unless they're setting him up to become a Nazgul. Earien going the King's Men route is as predicted.

    The apocryphal mithril origin myth was.... something else. Really hoping Gil and Brimby are only convinced by this due to Sauron already manipulating them. Changing the fate of one of the Silmarils (unless Adar is verified as Maglor/Maedhros) is going to make me very unhappy.
     
  18. Republic

    Republic The Snow Queen –§ Prestigious §– DLP Supporter

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    The Harfoot sections continue to puzzle me. For such supposedly likeable people, they're awfully willing to abandon their kin, when not discussing deliberately murdering them. I also find Nori supremely annoying, so on these scenes I dislike both the main view character and the backdrop. The Stranger is cool, but that's it.

    Honestly, I feel my patience with Galadriel running out. I feel like 5 episodes is plenty of time to show some redeeming qualities, and I have yet to see any. On the other hand, I see a lot of bad ones.

    Not without positives though. People like Pharazon, Elrond, Gil Galad and especially Elendil steal their scenes. Honorable mention to Arondir, who alas is too inconsistent to be on the same list.
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2022
  19. Pirazy

    Pirazy Groundskeeper

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    Yeah Galadriel is pretty unlikeable, downright selfish actually, but I can't help but think that's on purpose, the only times she's willing to show vulnerability, or ask something of somebody or to beg forgiveness it's not because she believes it's the right thing to do but because it will achieve her goal, it's all gaslighting and manipulation. At this point her entire existence is dedicated to her need for revenge against Sauron and she's willing to do anything, and use anybody to achieve it, and I think that's what's gonna be her downfall either in the season 1 finale or season 2 finale. The expeditionary force she's been entrusted with (and which regent Miriel decided to skip in the last minute) is gonna get slaughtered to the last with the exception of Halbrand and Isildur, because honestly, 300 warriors is a pitiful number compared to what looks to be a force of thousands of orcs ready to assault the tower. And this expedition is what's gonna turn Halbrand to Sauron, Galadriel's gonna fuck something up either for Halbrand or the people of the Southlands and that will drive a wedge between them and eventually he'll become a Nazgül. Hopefully this will start Galadriel on the path of becoming movie!Galadriel who will get her redemption not by killing Sauron but by forging the Last Alliance. Dunno how she's gonna make that happend if it plays out like I just described because the already low opinion the Numenorean have of her is gonna hit rock bottom when she gets their sons and daughter's killed, my guess is this is the opportunity Ar-Pharazon will use to usurp the throne.

    The mural showing the Black Sword being used in what looks like a sacrifice to Sauron and being referred to as a key.. is it just me or did Sauron trick everybody, and hid not just from the elves but from himself as well? Did the elves get too close for comfort when Galadriel's brother found him and his solution was to hide not only himself but his identity as well? The Stranger either is Sauron or the self-made "jail" holding him and when the Stranger dies Sauron is reborn?

    I don't have any problems with the creation myth of Mithril, other than it seems weird that anything connected to a Balrog might result into the creation of pure physical goodness.

    I'm not too keen on the elves suddenly dying because.. Sauron close to returning corrupts their tree? And that Mithril will make it magically not happend? I always assumed that once granted immortality the only way they could lose it was by willingly setting it aside, and that was just a choice given to Elros's line. Good source of conflict with the dwarves though, I guess we need them on bad enough terms to explain why they will not be a part of the Last Alliance and why the dwarves in LotR loathed the elves.
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2022
  20. Celestin

    Celestin Dimensional Trunk

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    I'm pretty much sure Halbrand is Sauron. The scene when he says he's sorry to Galadriel is the moment that confirmed it.

    My only problem is that by making this connection between them Galadriel should be the one to challenge him in the final battle which is not how it went. It's fine to have other people fight the Dark Lord when he doesn't have any emotional connections to anyone, but now that he does, this fight should have her in it.
     
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