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The Media [Derail] Thread

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Solfege, Feb 12, 2019.

  1. Solfege

    Solfege Headmaster DLP Supporter

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    I thought I'd raise this piece intrinsic to our times: Journalism Isn't Dying, It's Returning to Its Roots. Comments welcome, but I honestly thought it was just worth a read.

    This thread is for all commentary on and around modern media. My personal interest is in the changing and future nature of media, but if you feel you're about to derail other threads in a manner irrelevant to the predominant Trump/Election issues, then take it here.

    Since we're here, I'm curious enough to throw out this question. What are the sources you non-Americans find credible for your regional current events/to what extent are they affected by the dynamics we see in the US?

    I'm quite aware not all countries have the same sort of journalistic traditions the US has. I've for instance heard complaints on the professional standards of Indian newspapers from friends.

    Let's get some more international coverage here than in the other threads.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2019
  2. Agayek

    Agayek Fourth Champion DLP Supporter

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    It's certainly an interesting read. I'm not sure if I buy the fundamental premise though, that journalistic ethics and professional conduct are aberrations, especially when one of the big arguments the author makes is "Europe doesn't bother with such", and Europe has collectively been quite vocal critics about the recent degradation of journalism.

    Maybe I'm just not missing something, but it really feels like the author here is just shilling for and cheering on the degradation because they enjoy reading yellow journalism.
     
  3. tikkier2000

    tikkier2000 Third Year

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    I'd like to point out that anyone can have Twitter or a podcast or any other platform they want, and if they can make it entertaining enough they can be successful. Adams picking ludicrous pseudonyms and trolling other political candidates isn't exactly the same thing as some rando with a Twitter. And yeah, you're referring to some of America's first mudslingers, they're going to know how to do it well. I mean damn, Hamilton published his own sex scandal because he was metal like that. Just because our man TJ Monticello absolutely DESTROYS his political opponents and MOCKS those fucking Federalist sodomites doesn't mean I want that to be our modern journalism landscape.

    For the majority of news, I just want all the information available. The Washington Post's job is to present me with true information on a news event and as much verified information as possible. I want the news to tell me that 40% of Oklahoma is up for jurisdiction debate and why, and I'll listen to the SCOTUS arguments myself to properly form an opinion. If it's an issue I'm not going to look into further, then WaPo has fulfilled their duty as a news outlet.

    Everyone has bias, and I'm not asking to scrub it like your local 30 minute nightly news, but some effort would be nice. I don't think we should base our ideal of journalism on some of the crazy shit the Founders and their ilk used to pull.
     
  4. Sauce Bauss

    Sauce Bauss Minister of Magic DLP Supporter

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    I'd say that attempting to have "no bias" is a pretty arrogant and, frankly, impossible standard to meet. I'd prefer outlets simply be honest about their ideology and allow me to be the one who interprets it in the context of their bias. The Economist by many such measures is completely unbiased or as close as you can get, but that's completely inaccurate. TE's bias is in that it evaluates most measures from a classical liberal perspective. If you looked at any of the media bias reporting sites or sources, they'd say it's dead center when in actuality the writers and editors have a very strongly felt and represented ideology. It's impossible to speak about pretty much anything without using your moral or ethical framework to establish the underlying priors, and pretending that it is can be harmful.
     
  5. Agayek

    Agayek Fourth Champion DLP Supporter

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    While it's true that everyone has their own set of biases and the like, I don't think it's unreasonable to hold journalists to the standard of "facts and conclusions are separate things". Like, go ahead and share your opinion if you really must, but don't try and tell me what my opinions are/should be.

    To try and elaborate, if we use the most recent, and rather egregious, failure of the journalism industry, the Covington thing, a lot of issues could have been avoided if the media at large had simply presented the facts they actually had instead of "MAGA KIDS HARASSING A POOR DEFENSELESS INDIAN!!!!1!!11!".

    Op-eds and the like are certainly valuable, and there's plenty of room for them to be present in the media, but I don't think it's too much to ask for news to not conflate the objective facts of a situation and their conclusion as to the meaning of those facts.
     
  6. Chengar Qordath

    Chengar Qordath The Final Pony Prestige

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    I think that while total objectivity is probably not achievable by ordinary human beings, it's always something we should strive for as much as possible. Or to break out a saying one of my old college professors was fond of, "I don't care about what you believe, as long as you can back it up with enough solid evidence."

    I think the breakdown of any attempts at objectivity is a big part of why "Fake News" is a thing now. It's a lot easier to dismiss any news that challenges your worldviews as lies when the news isn't doing its damndest to stick to verifiable facts.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2019
  7. Quiddity

    Quiddity Unspeakable

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    In New Zealand the premier outlet is RNZ or radionz.co.nz. Traditionally the public radio station, it's made a highly successful transition to online content (whilst maintaining its radio channels), and is widely regarded as trustworthy and balanced. Like the BBC, but with less non-news content and little-to-no backlash.

    I would also trust The Spinoff (which has a clear and unapologetic left bias but high-quality) and Newshub (no bias, but less interesting content) for online burgeoning media sources.

    The two giants are NZ Herald and Stuff, which produce more tabloidy and clickbaity content, but also still of decent content. They recently failed a court bid to merge into one (as Google and Facebook were their main competitors), and are in the process of cutting costs by shedding staff and local papers which publish under their banner, which is butchering local journalism in particular and damaging national journalism as well.

    There's a strong talkback radio force on the right, dominated by NewsTalkZB (owned by NZ Herald), which has a strong "common-sense" right-wing editorial stance, which ranges from bashing cyclists to racist comments about Polynesians and Māori to Daily-Mail-esque scaremongering. Their highest-profile pundit has had TV shows at various points and ran the last election debate (well). So they're a force, but not one with as much influence as in the US, and they have less clear party connections.

    There's two commercial TV stations and Māori TV, but they're relative milquetoast. Tweedledum and Tweedledee, with decent-but-not-great evening and morning news shows, and no real current affairs offering (there's some which have a blend with comedy, which makes for cringey moments when politicians have to go on there).

    I could go on, but this is getting long.
     
  8. tikkier2000

    tikkier2000 Third Year

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    @Quiddity do you see a shift in what the major news outlets allow? And for that matter, you said RNZ gets very little backlash; is that because they tend to equivocate or entertain political perspectives that people would consider irresponsible? Or do they conduct themselves professionally and with proper discretion and New Zealand residents aren't as quick to screech?

    Because I see the shift in US media outlets and news sites. If you provide equal attention to all sides, you will get accused of feeding the trolls. For example, pretending like anti-vaxxers have an argument.

    Which is why I say it's a news outlet's job to provide me the information to me, not the political leanings. To use the previous anti-vax example, tell me that there's an outbreak of measles in Clark County, WA and that it's directly caused by a 40% vaccination rate. Tell me that the state is pushing a bill through that requires vaccinations for public schools, and that anti-vaxxers are protesting it. Do not tell me what anti-vaxxers believe because I likely already know and if I don't that's my personal perogative to find out.
     
  9. Silirt

    Silirt High Inquisitor DLP Supporter

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    >there is no objectivity
    >there is no fact-finding
    What amuses me is that no one's even questioning that this is the case. One would think that to survive, the companies would have to have some positive quantity of loyal believers, but that would only be true if people read the news to hear the truth.
    upload_2019-2-13_10-3-25.jpeg
    People who want the truth know where to look for it, people who want to be told what to think can look pretty much everywhere else. If they've heard of Al-Jazeera or Radio Free Asia, they have absolutely no idea what the content is, so we don't have to worry about popular support for taking them down since it doesn't in any way hinder them from consuming the opinions they want. To those who worry that people can no longer tell the difference between opinion and fact, or news and ads, worry no longer. The market's simply diversifying and the people who can't tell the difference aren't concerned with the difference.

    For my news purposes, I only watch MEMRI TV.
    journalism.jpg
     
  10. Halt

    Halt 1/3 of the Note Bros.

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    In the Philippines, most media corporations are in bed with politicians (corporations literally owned by politicians or their families). The closest thing I would call to reliable would be CNN Philippines (TV) or Rappler (online media news), and a big maybe on The Philippine Star and The Inquirer for print.

    I don't use the term liberal or conservative because it doesn't really exist as a concept in Philippine politics like it does in the US or Europe. We're very much driven by cults of personalities and the individual dictates direction to the party, not the other way around.
     
  11. point09micron

    point09micron Seventh Year

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    So is this the thread to discuss the Jussie Smollett business? If so, he should be arrested, tried, and jailed. If this isn't the right thread =\ he should be arrested, tried, and jailed.
     
  12. Silirt

    Silirt High Inquisitor DLP Supporter

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    They're discussing that in 'news that doesn't deserve it's own thread'.
     
  13. Oment

    Oment The Betrayer

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  14. point09micron

    point09micron Seventh Year

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    So Vox has a problem with a news exec with an obvious bias to one side. Where's the article demanding the firing of their own management?
     
  15. Silens Cursor

    Silens Cursor The Silencer DLP Supporter

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    My issue is more how she has no cognizant experience to the position, engaged in active misinformation campaigns (ie. the Seth Rich nonsense) for the current administration, and all of this was done after a few weeks of hundreds of more qualified journalists being laid off from multiple outlets, but hey, whataboutism is a thing.
     
  16. ScottPress

    ScottPress The Horny Sovereign Prestige

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    Maybe the people fired from BuzzFeed could, I dunno, learn to code or something?
     
  17. Arthellion

    Arthellion The Chosen One

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    This is a relevant concern.

    That said, the Vox article isn't arguing that.
     
  18. Invictus

    Invictus Banned

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    Glenn Greenwald is a biased, sold out hack. People that read him should just start reading The Nation and go deep into pro-Russia, anti-USA leftism conspiracy spin instead of pretending any kind of sanity.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2019
  19. Darth_Revan

    Darth_Revan Secret Squirrel Prestige DLP Supporter

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    Amen.
     
  20. Agayek

    Agayek Fourth Champion DLP Supporter

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    Not that I disagree, but what brought this on?
     
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