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The Media [Derail] Thread

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Solfege, Feb 12, 2019.

  1. BTT

    BTT Second Year ~ Prestige ~

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    Andy Ngo is a stupid shitheel who doesn't deserve the title of journalist, and a raging homophobe and racist besides. The attack, as far as I can tell, consisted of getting milkshaked.

    If anything I'm even more on antifa's side now.
     
  2. Agayek

    Agayek Half-Blood Prince DLP Supporter

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    I mean, if the antifa types didn't reliably start the fights the right keeps baiting them into, there wouldn't be the fights in the first place.

    Like, yes, most of the right types that go to these places explicitly go there with the intention of baiting a response from protesters, and even more of them are various flavors of shit head the world would be a better place without.

    But at this point, if the protesters didn't reliably escalate to violence, the right would be basically powerless. "Neo-Nazi bear sprays and beats up peaceful protesters" has vastly different implications and social reactions than "Far right nutter defends himself from attack".
     
  3. ScottPress

    ScottPress The Horny Sovereign ~ Prestige ~

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    The NYT hired an apparent racist last year and the Vox sphere is full of people who title themselves journalists, so who does and doesn't deserve the title turns pretty much only on who ya like and who ya don't.
     
  4. Johnnyseattle

    Johnnyseattle Headmaster DLP Supporter

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    Chicken and the egg, really. Throw them both into shark infested waters with meat necklaces, as far as I'm concerned.
     
  5. Hopper

    Hopper Third Year

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    Milkshake containing quickdry cement according to Portland PD, and getting a brain hemmorage from the attack. You super sure you're still for that?
     
  6. ScottPress

    ScottPress The Horny Sovereign ~ Prestige ~

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    I've seen the cement and brain bleed bits before in relevant reddit/twitter threads but I didn't want to make the claim without some official confirmation. If you have a sauce link on Portland PD, I'd be grateful.
     
  7. Oment

    Oment The Betrayer

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    Cement is unconfirmed, Portland PD has somewhat walked it back. Sources from a local journalist.

    Tl;dr: Anonymous email (link 2), no samples taken (link 3), unidentified police lieutenant (also link 3) who made an observation. The proof doesn't exactly appear concrete, and that's not taking into account the lack of milkshake samples. (Now there's two words I never thought I'd be using together in a political thread.)

    We might find the cement at Bowling Green, though.
     
  8. Hopper

    Hopper Third Year

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    https://mobile.twitter.com/PortlandPolice/status/1145106839618502656

    Edit: as @Oment says, more has come out making things murkier
     
  9. BTT

    BTT Second Year ~ Prestige ~

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    Yes. Why trust the police?

    Oh, dear. Thanks, Oment!
     
  10. DR

    DR Secret Squirrel ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    I'm not particularly concerned about the concept of fascists being hit by bricks, nevermind milkshakes.

    But hey, maybe that's just me.
     
  11. ScottPress

    ScottPress The Horny Sovereign ~ Prestige ~

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    You're not bothered by bystanders getting blown up by drones, so I imagine an anvil would still rank low for you, nevermind a brick.
     
  12. DR

    DR Secret Squirrel ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    What can I say, don't invite terrorists fascists to your wedding.
     
  13. Agayek

    Agayek Half-Blood Prince DLP Supporter

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    The bigger issue IMO is that of political violence at all, not who is the target or aggressor. A neonazi beating a communist unconscious is just as bad as the reverse. Or anyone beating anyone to be totally honest
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2019
  14. Chengar Qordath

    Chengar Qordath The Final Pony ~ Prestige ~

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    Exactly this. Significant political violence is a very bad thing regardless of which side it's on, because the whole point of having a functioning state/society is to settle issues without resorting to violence.

    It's also part of why normalizing any level of political violence is a very bad thing, even if it's against The Other. The more violence happens, the more likely we are to see retaliation and escalation, which can easily start up a nasty self-perpetuating cycle. Look at the Weimar Republic for a good example of how badly that can end.
     
  15. Oment

    Oment The Betrayer

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    Except the cycle of violence didn't exactly start this weekend, and let's not clutch our avocados/pearls/smartphones about it. It's been going on for a while. I'd say it's been escalating in scale, but that's not true on all fronts. (Which is a very thin silver lining.)
     
  16. Agayek

    Agayek Half-Blood Prince DLP Supporter

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    Of course not, it's been a fairly regular thing since Trump's election. It happened before then as well, obviously, but at the very least I didn't hear about it happening every other weekend.

    But "this has been going on for a while" does not, in any way, mean it's not a problem. There is one legitimate source of violence, the state, and even then it has to employ it very carefully and within strictly defined limits to be considered legitimate. People beating each other up in the streets is unacceptable, regardless of why or how long it's been going on.
     
  17. Oment

    Oment The Betrayer

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    I wonder why. Oh, wait, I really don't.

    Naturally. I was remarking that suddenly being surprised at this stuff happening is, well, ignorant. We're already in the escalation phase, IMO. I said it in a moderately flippant and ill-tempered (bad night and worse morning) way, sure, which was bad on my end.

    While we're on the topic of (anti)fascist violence, I would argue that it is merely the most outwardly visible symptom, and that most of the problems are hidden from anyone who casually skims the news twice a week. The internet is vast and wide and all that, and for all the times that we get good stuff from people banding together (open source reporting/investigating is fascinating), there's a ton of threatened violence and actual doxxing (unlike the 'follow the links' example upthread*), and for every time one person stands down due to the chilling effects of the two, others radicalise.

    Just somehow stopping (with whatever Deus Ex Machina you wish to apply) these clashes on the streets won't make the issues go away. 'Law and order' is not even a viable solo option, let alone a solution.

    *Clarification for t hose who need it: I'm commenting on the process required, not the reporting.
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2019
  18. Agayek

    Agayek Half-Blood Prince DLP Supporter

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    Of course not; this shit only happens because of deep societal issues.

    But that doesn't make it good when it happens, and people need to stop fucking applauding violent thugs for behaving like violent thugs.

    Edit: In hindsight, this comes across a bit more intense than I intended, but it bothers me more than a little that "violence is bad" is apparently not a universal truism anymore.
     
  19. Chengar Qordath

    Chengar Qordath The Final Pony ~ Prestige ~

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    Pretty much just going to second what others have said in response to my comments. Political violence is bad, some argument to be made about symptom vs cause.

    Also, one thing to note about the whole cement in the milkshake thing, regardless of whether that ends up being true or not the fact that the idea is now in circulation makes it more likely that a future milkshake-tosser is going to end up getting shot by the politician's bodyguards at some point. That's a mess nobody wants to have happen.
     
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