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The Trumperium 2: Caesar by the Pussy

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Jon, Jun 15, 2017.

  1. Chengar Qordath

    Chengar Qordath The Final Pony Prestige

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    Presumably the thought process is "Once we stop trading with them they'll miss our sweet American trade dollars so much they'll instantly cave in and give us a much better deal." It's not ... completely lacking in logic, but I think it overestimates how much they need American trade, how little the US needs their trade, and how quickly other nations will cave just because they're missing out on trade.
     
  2. Agayek

    Agayek Alchemist

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    This is pretty much my thought on the matter. Trump is convinced, regardless of facts, that everyone on Earth is dependent on US resources and trade, for internal stability at minimum, and is completely baffled now that they aren't bending over backwards to regain access to said resources and trade.
     
  3. Arthellion

    Arthellion Ban(ned) Arthellion

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    The free trade idea is fascinating. Its an interesting reversal of some of Trump's previous stances...but I actually support it if he can manage it.
     
  4. Quiddity

    Quiddity Auror

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    Of course, free trade is always good - any previous president would also have loved to eliminate tariffs on American goods. That's why Obama spent years negotiating TTIP and TPP, the former negotiations Trump stopped and the latter fully pulled out of.

    If your argument is "but he has a unique strategy that just might work" the response is obvious: firstly, considerable progress had already been made, which has been lost by his actions, secondly, no matter what happens now the instability his approach has caused, and will continue to cause, harms trade and other FP interests.
     
  5. Chengar Qordath

    Chengar Qordath The Final Pony Prestige

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    Exactly this. Maybe you could argue that all the short-term disruption would eventually be outweighed by long-term benefits, but that would require Trump to actually get the ephemeral better deal he thinks he can secure by hardball negotiation, and for those deals to remain in place once he's out of office. Both of those are far from certain prospects.
     
  6. Sesc

    Sesc Slytherin at Heart Moderator

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    Presumably it's that, or presumably it's anything else in the world. It's Trump. Would you bet even 50 bucks on him not literally thinking that there's profit to be made in not-trading?
     
  7. Darth_Revan

    Darth_Revan Secret Squirrel Prestige DLP Supporter

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    He has no clue, as usual.

    Think about it. His proposed strategy is to stop trading with the world because that'll show 'em. But viewed from the opposite angle, his plan to teach other people a lesson is to place a trade embargo on himself.

    Yea, that'll work. /s
     
  8. Psychotic Cat

    Psychotic Cat Order Member

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  9. Johnnyseattle

    Johnnyseattle Unspeakable DLP Supporter

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  10. Psychotic Cat

    Psychotic Cat Order Member

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  11. Erotic Adventures of S

    Erotic Adventures of S Denarii Host

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    I'm not sure I totally disagree with Trump here. The methods the west have used against regimes like this have not worked for 60 years. I am more than willing to give a evil prick a pat on the back and a photo op if it gets a foot in the door to de-escalating tensions. Hell I would flood them with all the trade and aide we can. Sanctions don't seem to do much and we might stop some of the suffering there.
     
  12. Johnnyseattle

    Johnnyseattle Unspeakable DLP Supporter

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    Yeah, I mean, credit where it's at least semi-due here - not that it's saying a lot considering, but he's gotten a lot further in this than anyone else ever has, because he actually did something. Previous presidents didn't want to legitimize the regime, I get that, but once they've already got a nuclear ace in the hole you might as well go for it and see what happens.

    Now, that said, reading the news and hearing the NPR reporting on it on the way to work this morning, it sounds like mostly hot air until they work out the inspection and certification processes. So we'll have to see how much follow-through we'll actually get, but I'm mildly intrigued.
     
  13. Erotic Adventures of S

    Erotic Adventures of S Denarii Host

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    Considering where relations stood 6 months ago and the fact they are nuclear capable if only very very theoretically able to project it, we have almost nothing to loose by trying.
     
  14. Arthellion

    Arthellion Ban(ned) Arthellion

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    I think perspective is key here. This is a very different situation for diplomatic relations here.

    You have two very unique leaders on both sides. Kim is not his father or grandfather. Trump is...Trump.

    Read a good article the other day, “It’s time to start discussing the upsides of the Trump presidency”

    Basically the premise is Trump is a high risk-high reward President. If his plans work it’s insanely beneficial but the risk is very high and odds aren’t good.

    I’ll take the good where I can find it. Let’s hope this summit results in something positive.

    At the very least...we aren’t shooting nukes at each other.
     
  15. Sesc

    Sesc Slytherin at Heart Moderator

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    ... there are upsides in Trump's presidency in the way there upsides in a critical illness. It may result in something helpful aside from the fact that it's killing you, but that's certainly incidental. Positives that come out of this are, until now, a reaction to Trump, not Trump. Needing "upsides" of Trump's presidency very much strikes me as one of those attempts of a false balance. Good reporting isn't 50% good and 50% bad, it's 100% bad if what you're reporting from is bullshit mountain. And I'm quite unwilling to lower the bar to "he managed to sound presidential in a speech" or "he managed not to break something".

    As for the summit, the -- very much intended -- result is
    So. It certainly got Trump (and of course Kim) what he wanted. China is also very happy, because no manoeuvres. The rest of the world? Well, the state of affairs didn't turn worse, I guess.

    Random critical column, but true nonetheless:
    Perspective, indeed.
     
  16. Arthellion

    Arthellion Ban(ned) Arthellion

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    Eh...and if this was happening during Obama's presidency, the left would be clamoring to give him a second Nobel Peace Prize.

    Hypocrisy exists on both sides. I don't see why that's even being brought up.

    People hate Trump so much they immediately focus on all the negatives (and yes, there are a lot of negative things), but its no better than the REpublicans who hated everything Obama did.

    I think we should recognize that the Summit is a positive thing and Trump is proactively doing something good.

    That's awesome.
     
  17. Agayek

    Agayek Alchemist

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    To be fair, it's not like people aren't having conniptions over what Trump's doing; it's just different people from those who would do it over the Iran deal.
     
  18. Sauce Bauss

    Sauce Bauss Headmaster DLP Supporter

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    If Obama were doing it, I imagine the State Department would be involved. I imagine that there would be some kind of concrete movement before the photo op, rather than the photo op being the objective. I would imagine that there would be a grander objective than "not nuclear war." This meeting is literally meaningless in the face of his conduct regarding the Iran deal.

    "Muh both sides." Fuck yourself to death. I trend conservative, and every Republican with the slightest amount of sense or morals should be horrified at 98% of what he does. He's an unmitigated disaster in pretty much every arena. This false equivalency is actually disgusting. Obama wanted things like universal healthcare, that horrible Kenyan communist nigger. Funny how the moment he got elected, people started caring about respecting the office over the man. Trump is actively degrading nearly every structure of American power possible.

    Trump being not a complete, inveterate fuck up is not something to applaud. It's something to mourn. Just because not everything is on fire doesn't mean we should celebrate. He could reunite the Korena peninsula tomorrow under a democracy and it would not make up for the damage he's done to our institutions or place in the world.
     
  19. Arthellion

    Arthellion Ban(ned) Arthellion

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    Eh forgive me for struggling to be optimistic?

    I fully agree Trump’s an unmitigated disaster which is why I’ll be voting 3rd party or dem.
     
  20. Psychotic Cat

    Psychotic Cat Order Member

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