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The Trumperium 2: Caesar by the Pussy

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Jon, Jun 15, 2017.

  1. Invictus

    Invictus Heir

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    Impeachments are not Judicial Trials. Even if they're presided over by the Chief Justice and are treated as such, it's done by a Political body, by elected politicians of the legislative and it follows political mood. As much as people try to pass it as a special type of prick criminal trial, it's very much a political process so one should be careful to try to apply criminal logic wholesome to it.
     
  2. Sesc

    Sesc Slytherin at Heart Moderator

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    ACA repeal in on again.

    I just read this column, and that excerpt made me think. The problem is -- and always has been, of course -- that Obamacare is fundamentally a conservative bill, so you literally can't come up with something that's more conservative and still a health care bill. More conservative is only no bill. Hence the GOP is furiously attacking reality and losing.

    That's not new. But here's what would be: If the GOP had balls (and/or got desperate), they'd take Obamacare, and expand it. Expand the individual mandate, get more people into the exchanges, (that way) fix the premiums problem.

    This has three advantages. One, they will get it passed. The Democrats have to agree, and it also fits Trumps "beautiful health care for everyone". Two and three, this helps to keep both promises -- Obamacare was terrible and needed to be fixed so they did it, and they repealed and replaced it.

    Of course, a more comprehensive Obamacare is not what anyone meant with "repeal and replace", but that's the beauty -- it keeps the letter of the promise with a reinvention of its spirit that allows them to jump out of all corners they painted themselves into in one fell swoop.
     
  3. Eilyfe

    Eilyfe Death Eater

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    Not that I'm an expert on American politics, but that seems so unlikely to me as to be far removed even from being a pipe dream.
     
  4. wolf550e

    wolf550e High Inquisitor DLP Supporter

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    The owners of the GOP paid for a tax cut and they will get it. What is not clear?
     
  5. Sesc

    Sesc Slytherin at Heart Moderator

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    _Numbers._
     
  6. fire

    fire High Inquisitor

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    You're right that they (probably) can't pass ACA repeal, and so they won't be able to push through permanent tax cuts via reconciliation.

    But they certainly can do Bush tax cuts v2 - temporary and sunset after 10 years. That's good enough for them, tbh.
     
  7. ASmallBundleOfToothpicks

    ASmallBundleOfToothpicks Professor

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    Heh. You silly furanurrs, and yurr cray-zee idears... like representative democracy following the will of the populace, when you could have good, solid oligarchy like the US of A. Git on our level of corruption fueled by hyper accurate Gerrymandering, Super-PACS, election fraud, mass incarceration, and voter suppression.

    Seriously though, it will get through. There is a lot of money from donors riding on it.
     
  8. Sesc

    Sesc Slytherin at Heart Moderator

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    ?

    It has nothing to do with popular opinion. McConnell can afford to lose two, and that's what he's got. For Paul, it's not repeal enough, and for Collins, it's not replace enough. I doubt he's going to convince either, and, most importantly: Not simultaneously. Moving the bill in one direction creates issues in the other, it's mutually exclusive. So you're left with only a single Senator who can blow up the whole thing, and a handful is currently evaluating what a yes-vote means for their political careers. All in all, I give it even odds. It might happen or it might not.

    Anyway, that wasn't even the point. I just considered a different scenario that given McConnell's lack of really any principles actually might have a chance of greater than zero. If you can't defeat it, embrace it. He'll try his best to never let this become the only option left, but if this doesn't get passed, we're one step closer.
     
  9. ASmallBundleOfToothpicks

    ASmallBundleOfToothpicks Professor

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    Or McConnell's sugardaddies pay for a couple of senators to flip, regardless of their party affiliation. I rate that scenario much more likely than McConnell 4D chessing himself into losing his flow of money.

    Now here's the problem- McConnell does have principles. Horrific, terrifying, and insane values (by my standards, at least), but he's got them. That's why he was supported by the Kochs and their ilk. He legitimately believes that all of his lying to his base, his corporate giveaways, environmental deregulation, crippling the education system, and interventionism will benefit his people. His people, of course, are his "donors."

    The best case scenario for the the average american is that Sanders and the progressives raise enough of a media stink that the donors get cold feet.
     
  10. Sesc

    Sesc Slytherin at Heart Moderator

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    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    We'll have to disagree. How long's he been in the Senate now, 30+ years? He's been everything to everyone and said everything and the opposite. Whatever was expedient (to his aims) he's done, and yes, he's exactly the type to play 4D-chess. He wouldn't be where he is otherwise. I don't even think he cares much about legislation (or legislating) in general. He just like to play politics.
     
  11. Silens Cursor

    Silens Cursor The Silencer DLP Supporter

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    I think you're giving McConnell and the donors too much credit - half because he was willing to post-pone a vote since McCain had surgery (which if he had Dem flippers in reserve he wouldn't need)...

    And also because Moran and Lee flipped to 'No' minutes ago, the sort of thing that McConnell should have been able to shut down before going live and before Trump says something asinine that'll likely solidify their choices.
     
  12. awinarock

    awinarock Alchemist

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    I've been listening to a lot of political pundits who say that McConnell may actually want the bill to fail because it would be political suicide for a decent number of Republicans in the upcoming general election and so he and the GOP could say that at least they tried. What do ya'll think?
     
  13. Darth_Revan

    Darth_Revan Secret Squirrel Prestige DLP Supporter

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    I think it's more politically important for him to accomplish what he said he'd accomplish if the voters gave his party majorities.
     
  14. Johnnyseattle

    Johnnyseattle Auror DLP Supporter

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    If he was enough of a forward-thinker to plan that out, the theoretically he probably could have come up with a better plan for the whole ordeal in the multiple years he's been bitching about it, you know, before they held a complete majority that they still can't manage to do anything with.

    But no, his (and apparently the whole Republican party's) entire agenda was only to obstruct Obama at every turn, and nobody ever considered they'd have to actually DO anything once he was gone. And so here we are, and miraculously people are doing what they should, despite the 'party-before-country' mentality that seems to have penetrated so much of the political landscape.

    I mean, when a few guys from two of your most staunch red states nope out of it, that seems like a pretty clear sign that you're fucking it all up.
     
  15. fire

    fire High Inquisitor

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    Good riddance BRCA you shit and useless legislation.
     
  16. Agayek

    Agayek Dark Lord

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    What the hell's the BRCA (or do you mean the bipartisan campaign reform act?) and what happened to it?
     
  17. Oment

    Oment The Betrayer

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    Probably a typo.

    Also, the repeal-and-delay option that was being floated has also been torpedoed due to three Senators (Collins, Moore Capito, Murkowski) voting no on it.

    Obamacare lives, for now.
     
  18. Sesc

    Sesc Slytherin at Heart Moderator

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    It really doesn't. It's limping along -- too dead to live, too alive to die.

    Keep in mind that Trump effectively killed the mandate, so you now have people insuring themselves when they get sick. Enough state exchanges have only one provider left, and the rate hike is very much an issue.

    Obamacare does need to be fixed -- and it could be fixed, more importantly. Trump has so far torpedo'ed it instead.

    awinarock: I don't doubt that McConnell played through this outcome (it was too likely not to), but I do doubt he preferred it. It's all fine and well to go "the swing voters", but "repeal & replace" will have approximately 100% approval at the base, and you kinda need those votes as well. Hence why I pondered how "repeal & replace" could be kept alive and made to work, by re-defining the spirit of it, above.

    Johnnyseattle: Don't mix up the reasons for pulling the support, though. Moran and Lee didn't vote for it because it wasn't conservative (read: cruel to those who need it, and rewarding to those who don't) enough. McConnell failed the second time around for the same reason he failed the first time around: His party was demanding diametrically opposite things of him and the bill, and those that were left, in the middle, weren't enough to pass it.

    My conclusion from this is that the GOP currently is unable to govern. I wouldn't be surprised if they couldn't pass a budget either, and there actually is a non-zero chance they shut down their own government and fail to raise the debt ceiling as well. They simply disagree amongst themselves wtf they want. And Trump does know what he wants ... every minute anew. So, where's the direction supposed to come from?
     
  19. Darth_Revan

    Darth_Revan Secret Squirrel Prestige DLP Supporter

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    It's a typo. The Better Care Reconciliation Act (BCRA) is the name of the Senate's version of the American Health Care Act (AHCA, the House's version).
     
  20. The Iron Rose

    The Iron Rose Order Member

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    Apparently Caitlyn Jenner is planning a Senate run.

    http://www.avclub.com/article/caitl...utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=SocialMarketing

    Can't imagine that'll end well for her.

    Conservatives will hate her because she's transgender, and lefties will hate her because they're a pack of vicious fuckers with a taste for thoughtcrime. Which leaves what, liberals who can be guilted into voting for the minority candidate and Republicans trying to convince themselves that they're still good people?

    A grand total of probably six people are not enough to make up a base.