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The Trumperium 2: Caesar by the Pussy

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Jon, Jun 15, 2017.

  1. Invictus

    Invictus Fourth Champion

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    Didn't take long. The Atlantic already has a hit piece on her and it's pretty hard hitting:
    But weirdly seems to expect her not do anymore of such things... out of a sense of disloyalty to the President.

    I think this might be the tone the press will take about this position change.

    While this fits under world politics more, the EU and US reaction should be closely watched. The UK is furious this time, but it can hardly be called adventurism when they have been doing it for almost two decades and we're "caught" (strongly suspected but no conclusive proof) at least twelve times.

    MI5, I'm starting to suspect, is useless. Another attack. Strangled this time.
     
  2. Sauce Bauss

    Sauce Bauss Headmaster DLP Supporter

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    I'm frankly a bit surprised at how surprised everybody is acting. The British knew it was a problem already, we knew it was a problem already. I guess the issues with Trump and Russia have made it so that tangential issues can't be ignored like before, and people want to see action? For anyone even peripherally related to the space, this is old news.
     
  3. The Iron Rose

    The Iron Rose Death Eater

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    Oh Russia conducting assassinations on British soil is old news. Buzzfeed, of all organizations, had a very hard hitting piece about the 14 murders it found linked to Russian intelligence in the UK, either covered up or otherwise ignored. Or look at the murder of Gareth Williams and the completely ineffectual response.

    I think the only time they've actually done anything about it was when that female Libyan diplomat under Gaddafi shot a cop and claimed immunity, and even that response was haphazard.

    Why the UK seems so unwilling to contest these violations of their sovereignty is beyond me. But maybe we'll be lucky and see some concrete and serious reprisals.
     
  4. Sesc

    Sesc Slytherin at Heart Moderator

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    Beyond Trump's Reality TV Show, it's more interesting to look into policy decisions. For example, the list of programs and directives he cancelled show what President Trump doesn't care about. Which means Trump literally, the person, or what he doesn't care to understand so he just follows whatever the advisor closest to him doesn't care about. Whichever is the case.

    He's doesn't care about:

    • Teen pregnancies
    • Environmental effects of mining
    • Offshore drilling safety
    • Anthropological climate change
    • Corruption in international energy/oil business
    • Workplace safety
    • The Gender Pay Gap
    • LGTBQs
    • Other minorities
    • Student Debts
    • Gun violence
    • Civil rights
    • Animal welfare

    And if I look at this list, really all I see is 13 reasons why Trump will not be impeached. Unless The Wave reaches The Day After Tomorrow apocalyptical heights and literally drowns Congress.
     
  5. Invictus

    Invictus Fourth Champion

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    London has long been a playground for Russian gangsters and corrupt politicians and executives, and, most importantly, their dirty money needing to be laundered. What's surprising me is that now of all times, the UK government found a spine. I think that surprised everyone too that's why I'm interested in how the EU will react.

    Poland and Hungary formed an anti-EU establishment alliance, but Poland hates Russia and is utterly paranoid about it. Hungary meanwhile is led by a self professed Putin fanboy who tries to emulate him. Germany led the sanctions on Russia, but is deeply dependant on it for gas and it has very strong commercial ties with it (not very clean ties either, their former PM is sitting as the director of Russia's biggest oil and gas state company).

    Short and long story is that London benefits hugely from such scummy people laundered money. The UK actually has a pretty great TV series about it based in a real life, well researched book. That's the best explanation I found.
     
  6. Rehio

    Rehio Alchemist DLP Supporter

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    My senator is already calling her into question for the shit she's done in the past, asking for her records to be declassified.

     
  7. Arthellion

    Arthellion Ban(ned) Arthellion

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    Eh...I think it’s just posturing and trying to be seen as opposing Trump.

    Haspel is a good choice all things considering. Personally, her being “evil” is a positive for a head of the CIA in my book.

    She did what she did to protect the USA and it’s citizens. I fundamentally disagree with torture bc it doesn’t honestly produce good results, but elected leaders have a responsibility to do what they can to protect their people.

    As an official your first responsibility is to the protection and well being of those who you serve..ethics and moral consideration for others of foreign countries be damned.

    leaders don’t have the luxury of wanting to do good for other nations. Their first responsibility is to their citizens.

    Haspel is a good choice for the safety of America.
     
  8. Darth_Revan

    Darth_Revan Secret Squirrel Prestige DLP Supporter

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    A good choice? No, not really. The best choice given the circumstances? Perhaps.

    Federal officials take only one oath, and that's to preserve and protect the Constitution against all Enemies, foreign and domestic. That includes upholding the laws of the United States. It also includes keeping to the treaty obligations we've adopted, which carry the force of law. Gina Haspel and her chums broke that oath the moment they broke the Geneva Conventions and 18 US Code Sec. 2340A. Whatever her contributions previous to that, from that moment on, she deserved nothing less than arrest, trial, and imprisonment. It's only thanks to President Obama's desire not to rock the boat when he came to office that she didn't get that.

    The CIA detention and torture program was nothing short of disastrous. No tangible benefit was gained. The methods have been proven time and again to yield nothing of use, and nothing that can be trusted.

    Haspel's saving grace this morning is that she's a career Case Officer who knows the business, has a healthy hatred of Russia, and will probably run the CIA properly, which means free of political taint and ax-grinding.

    That is, if she can get through confirmation, which I am not at all convinced by. The GOP has a 51-49 split. But John McCain will never, ever, in a million years, vote for a torturer. One more vote, and she's toast.
     
  9. Marsupial

    Marsupial Death Eater DLP Supporter

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    You give more credit to McCain's integrity than I do at this point.
     
  10. Solfege

    Solfege Unspeakable DLP Supporter

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    There's a problem there... Chiang pledged political reforms in '86 as the eventual response to the One China policy and the cutting of ties in '79. He reasoned if Taiwan was to survive with an ascendant PRC, it had to align itself ideologically and economically as fully with America as it could. Four decades of martial law were lifted the next year, and lifetime legislators went into forced retirement in '91. Clearly he did something right, because reforms continued apace after he died in '88 --- possibly thanks to Lee Teng-hui, his handpicked successor?

    Who're we to align with that'll incentivize us to change? There's no bigger dog out there. It's got to come from within and, well....
     
  11. Sauce Bauss

    Sauce Bauss Headmaster DLP Supporter

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    The damage to America's relationships and reputation after the black sites and torture came to light was so great that another 9/11 might honestly have been preferable. The US's soft power comes, in many ways, from our being seen as upholding a public good. We stand for things like liberty, justice, human rights. Hundreds of thousands of Americans have died for those ideals, and betraying them in the name of "security" is anathema to the very idea of America.
     
  12. Xiph0

    Xiph0 Administrator Admin

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    Whew, that minority report from the House Intel Committee. Democrats named all the names that were suppressed in the main majority report, among other things.

    Give it to me baby~
     
  13. Sauce Bauss

    Sauce Bauss Headmaster DLP Supporter

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    I mean, it's not so much an abstract ideological position as it is a "Every time I try to raise my hands they can't go above my nipples because I had my shoulders shattered when I was tortured." Given that he's dying, he's a bit more willing to stand on principle.
     
  14. Darth_Revan

    Darth_Revan Secret Squirrel Prestige DLP Supporter

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    McCain has a long history of almost militant opposition to the CIA torture program, informed by his experiences as a young POW.
     
  15. Invictus

    Invictus Fourth Champion

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    Regarding Latin America, those black sites didn't a whole lot of damage to US rep (not that its been great since the 80s mind you), since everyone here remembers the military juntas and their torture departments, which got taught plenty of tricks by the CIA, so no one was exactly surprised.

    The Iraq War was the true blow, since it was seen as a blatant attempt to take control over Iraq's oil fields, something that made the US be seen as both a neocolonialist power and a huge hypocrite since they were doing exactly what Iraq did in the First Gulf War.
     
  16. Chengar Qordath

    Chengar Qordath The Final Pony Prestige

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    Yeah, this. While I don't love the idea of anyone involved in the black site torture program getting into power, I have a healthy fear of who Trump would pick if he's given free reign to ignore the career CIA people and stick one of his hand-picked cronies into the slot.

    Nobody has lost money betting on Trump's ability to take a bad situation and make it worse.
     
  17. Sauce Bauss

    Sauce Bauss Headmaster DLP Supporter

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    In lighter news, it looks like Lamb has won the special election in Pennsylvania. That was an R+20 district, which is very promising given the fading enthusiasm that we were seeing in national polls over the last few months. We went from a 20 point surge to 8 points, but this shows that there is still enough momentum to keep the pressure up. As Trump continues to pour gasoline on his dumpster fire, Republican turnout continues to fade while Democrats get encouraged to actually show up for the first time in electoral history.

    Anecdotally, my district's primary had more early voters than they had voters period last time around. Throw in some infighting with the establishment vs the Bannonites, and you've got yourself a recipe for a Democratic House.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2018
  18. Giovanni

    Giovanni God of Scotch

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    Very happy for my friends who worked on the PA-18 race. They did one hell of a job running a candidate who most likely would not survive a Democratic primary. Happy to report that my back of the envelope projection of the results was accurate to within somewhere between 0 and 2000 votes (pending the absentee ballots in Washington/Green county.)

    The takeaways from the race are:

    1.) Run candidates and competent campaigns which fit the district and winning becomes possible in a lot of places you wouldn't expect it.

    2.) No Democrat should bother filling out the NRA's candidate survey. Lamb ran on the NRA's platform and the organization still endorsed/ spent money supporting his opponent.

    3.) Money spent by outside groups is, on the balance, less effective than money spent by candidate committees (absent illegal coordination.)

    4.) Saccone had a hell of a bio. He really should have run on that, he would have run away with the race. Effectively defining yourself early helps you avoid races being about other things (insider: Outsider, La Resistance:Trump, etc.)

    Now a brief look back.

    Update: Washington County absentees just came in. I was too conservative in my margin for Lamb by 441 votes. And yes, when you get this close to the exact number it is largely luck.

    This is self-contradictory foolishness. If your obligation is to do what you can to protect the US, and torture is counterproductive, then she failed at her job.

    Lauding that and rewarding her failure with a promotion is absurd.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2018
  19. Marsupial

    Marsupial Death Eater DLP Supporter

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    He does indeed. Right up until the point he endorsed a guy for President who advocated for the use of torture in interrogation.
     
  20. Solfege

    Solfege Unspeakable DLP Supporter

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    Arthellion missed that part, was working with the assumption that torture produces viable intelligence and it was only "political correctness" or whatever wishy-washy weakness of stomach that placed such service illaudable. Or perhaps, less likely, the assumption we couldn't have possibly predicted beforehand the unreliability of torture, and Haspel, admirably willing in service to do "whatever" necessary, is absolved of the counter-productivity in her tenure from said ignorance. One of those two?

    These tariffs are projecting to lose 28000 construction jobs and delay the building of much-needed multi-family housing, particularly reliant on steel over single-family houses, in cities. I've pointed out already the magnitude of the challenge here facing us... Tariffs on lumber don't help either.

    538 did a nice piece on how tariffs can indeed be useful pushing a long term strategy provided you have a plan and clear goals where the eventual gains outweigh short-term losses. In fact tariffs were a part of the American System envisioned by Hamilton that laid the foundation for our present prosperity; the System which was later an inspiration to German industrial planning; and which is pretty much also the general mould for Japanese and Chinese "catch-up". We did it first. Germany and the US were the runaway "catch-up" successes of the 19th century.

    .... how likely is it Trump's nativists have done their homework for such a coherent strategy.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2018
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