Discussion in 'Politics' started by Xiph0, May 18, 2017.
This has been the big news of the day. Everyone seen it? Thoughts?
Posted about this in the News thread. It sits very poorly with me that these men look to be getting off scot free. Is it likely that their actions were deliberately overlooked? And what are the chances of the attention the incident is getting leads to arrests?
I've read at a few sources that this isn't the first time something like this has happened. Can anyone comment on that?
They had diplomatic immunity. There is precisely zero chance they will be prosecuted.
Much as I dislike that outcome.
They can be prosecuted, they just gonna have to be judged in Turkey, I think, which will end up in... nothing yes. But they can be indicted and 'pressured' to be expelled. But yes, infuriating. Regardless, Washington Police was really fucking pathetic. Let American citizens be beaten and then arrested some of them for protecting themselves, while doing shit against these fucking assholes. Trump is letting America be humilliated. This humiliates me, because the US is our leader and example, and holy shit. I can't even.
So, Iron Rose, still think that Turkey should still be kept as an important ally and pacified/wooed?
I mean, I'd cheer on a lynch mob, but I don't think the actions of these bodyguards changes the realities that dictate the political stance of the US towards Turkey.
Yeah, the realities of diplomatic immunity are that the US can't do much without Turkey going along with it, and Erdogan's almost certainly not going to cooperate. Without Turkey waiving immunity or agreeing to prosecute the offenders in their own courts, the most the US could do is persona-non-grata everyone involved in the incident. That's better than nothing, but is still pretty much just a symbolic gesture. Especially since Erdogan would almost certainly do some sort of tit-for-tat response by expelling some of our diplomatic personnel in Turkey.
Annnd then there's this, which purports to show Erdogan directly ordering the guards to attack.
Honestly not in the least surprised.
Has there still been no response?
Did you expect the Trump administration to give a shit? He's too busy admiring Erdogan's ability to imitate Gollum.
Honestly? Yeah. It's one thing to be a cunt to your own people, but to go to America and do it? Figured Trump was too narcissistic to allow that positive PR move to pass.
Probably just naive.
Seems like this will be the extent of the official answer. The silence regarding direct criticism to Erdogan by both sides, as far as I know, is disgusting.
I would've thought Trump would jump on this. Seems like easy points for him to score.
Why? He's buddies with Erdogan, he loves the 'strength' of dictators and strongmen, and he practically used to tell his own people to beat the crap out of protesters at his rallies.
What possible reason would Trump have to make a big deal of this?
Beyond common sense and normal politics and patriotism, that is. After all, that's not how he operates, remember? He won't publicly castrate Turkey if he, deep down, fundamentally agrees with Erdogan.
This pisses me off.
The responsibility of the American government is to protect the American people. If a foreign leader can come to our country, order his guards to attack our people, and only get a slap on the wrist something is wrong. The sad thing is I don't think much more would have happened under Obama.
Sheesh, Trumps an idiot for not making this a rallying cry for his base. Plays perfectly into his anti refugee message.
Wars have been started for less than this.
America... I think we are in a funk. Maybe we are depressed...I don't know.
Wish I we could just our head on straight, agree on our core values, then play those out.
You and me both.
I agree entirely with that statement. Especially the bit I highlighted.
Well, for starters, Erdogan wouldn't have been invited here, because before Obama left, we were pissed at him, and him at us. Second, he would have at least made a lot of noise about it. Third, there would have been some repercussions, even if they were behind the curtain and not announced to the public. As it stands, all the Trump Administration has done is send a weak press release. That's literally it.
How? The people doing the beating up were Turkish Muslims, but the people peacefully protesting before they were beaten up were also Turkish-American Muslims. And Kurds. What would he do, defend them? "Protect the peaceful Muslims from those horrible violent Muslims?" That'd fall flat. Especially since a vocal minority of his supporters are racist little shits who say the protesters deserved it because they were 'libtard cucks' being beat down by those 'alpha' security guards. That's cognitive dissonance to a level even he doesn't use.
You misunderstand the broader conservative argument against the refugees. Media has painted it as racist and based on religion. That's not actually the argument most adhere to. The argument most Trump supporters found appealing is based on the belief that people in middle eastern countries are taught to fundamentally hate Americans. Aside from the ridiculous Uncle Bobs on Facebook, most still get along fine with Muslim neighbors.
I'm from the Deep South. At the last 4th of July, we had Two African American families, a Hispanic family, a family recently immigrated from the Middle East, and two typical white families attend our gathering all hosted by a Southern Baptist pastor. We celebrated America. Most conservatives don't have a problem with that.
It is the belief that "Syria is sending their worst" and "these middle eastern countries are out to get us" fears that trump primarily played on.
Trump could easily side step the fact that the protestors are from Turkey and Muslim and say peace American protestors were attacked by the Turkish security forces if he wanted to drum up support.
It's a mess however you look at it though.
Okay, that makes sense, but only so far as until you get to the fact that it's Turkey. He's ideologically aligned with Erdogan, it doesn't make sense to me that he'd castigate them.
What you say makes sense if you were evaluating Trump's actions from a purely rhetorical standpoint, but I've long since given up on that. I'm seeing this from Trump's emotional standpoint. He sees Erdogan as strong. He likes strong leaders. He admires Erdogan for being strong. Erdogan's his buddy. He sticks with his buddies.
Agreed. Which is why I'm pissed off. And every American should be pissed off. If this was even as early as the 1970s Trump would be gone and Turkey would be even deeper on America's shit list.
Is anyone in the media making a big deal about this? Or are we still laughing at Trump for overcooking his steak? Or calling him a misogynist for not holding his wife's hand?
A foreign entity comes into your home and has his way with what should be yours to protect while you do nothing. That's textbook cuckold...
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