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Was Ghandi an Asshole?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Arthellion, Sep 16, 2019.

  1. Arthellion

    Arthellion Lord of the Banned ~ Prestige ~

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    Gandhi was a huge asshole
     
  2. Conquistador

    Conquistador Professor

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    You sure about that one?
     
  3. lopeck

    lopeck DA Member

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  4. Arthellion

    Arthellion Lord of the Banned ~ Prestige ~

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    Yup. He screwed over the lower castes hard in his push to get England out. Especially the untouchables.

    Also was a racist pedophile if some recent histories are to be believed.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2019
  5. Xiph0

    Xiph0 Administrator Admin

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    Definitely worth pointing out the racist pedophile stuff is heavily heavily under academic debate and by no means a fact in either direction.
     
  6. Arthellion

    Arthellion Lord of the Banned ~ Prestige ~

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    Aye it's not certain either way for sure on the pedophilia; the racism is a much stronger argument based on many of his statements, IE:
    http://originalpeople.org/mahatma-gandhi-racist-quotes/

    (Kaffir being the historical equivalent of the N-word), but I'll stop derailing the thread.
     
  7. Chengar Qordath

    Chengar Qordath The Final Pony ~ Prestige ~

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    Worth pointing out that "Kaffir" wasn't considered an offensive term back in the 1890s-1910's, when Ghandi said those things.
     
  8. DR

    DR Secret Squirrel ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    Yea, well. "Negro" was a correct term until the 60s, so...context is important, but hindsight is revealing.
     
  9. Chengar Qordath

    Chengar Qordath The Final Pony ~ Prestige ~

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    Not sure what your point is. Ghandi used a term that was considered perfectly acceptable in polite society at the time he spoke it. It's no more revealing than claiming that this proves old Batman comics were gay porn.

    [​IMG]

    (For context, in the 60's "boner" meant a silly mistake)
     
  10. DR

    DR Secret Squirrel ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    It seems fairly obvious. Casual racism was normal, so yes, it's contextually unremarkable, but if the point is 'he was a racist', then no matter how normal it was, it's still true.
     
  11. Arthellion

    Arthellion Lord of the Banned ~ Prestige ~

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    Eh...there's a bit of a difference. The term isn't a humorous one...it's a term specifically recognizing the supposed "lesserness" of africans.

    You'll notice the context Gandhi uses in those quotes is always in a way that demeans the african people. It's not the term alone. He iswholeheartedly endorsing racial supremacy and arguing the indians should be on the equivalent of the white man not the black man.
     
  12. Chengar Qordath

    Chengar Qordath The Final Pony ~ Prestige ~

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    The term itself didn't carry any particularly racist connotations at that time, though. Or to be more accurate, it wasn't seen as a slur or a term of racial hatred. After all, just about anything from the 19th and early 20th Century where non-Africans discuss Africans is going to be racist by modern standards.

    I just don't think there's not much to be gained by pointing out that someone 120 years ago didn't have modern 2019 values and language. Yes, Ghandi had a lot of the racial (and to a modern PoV, racist) baggage you'd expect from someone growing up in the colonial-era British Empire. It'd be surprising if he didn't. Pointing out that aside from the areas where bucked the trend, he was mostly a man of his time doesn't really change much. It's only slightly more relevant than pointing out that Ghandi never spoke against Brexit and the rise of Trump.

    (also, might not be a bad idea to move this out of the funny pictures thread)
     
  13. Trooper

    Trooper Order Member

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    @Arthellion
    Ok. Lol. So you're at this stage eh?
    A lot of Indians go through this stage.
    1)Complete Idolization, in school --------> 2) He was a racist, He sold us out during partition, He damned the untouchables/Dalits/OBCs/etc, yada yada yada, after you start reading him from alternate sources ---------> 3) And then finally realization that he was a better human being than most of us since he managed to change himself and championed this very change in every one; This after reading even more. A more nuanced view.

    Read on, my friend, read on. You'll get to the third stage sooner or later.

    Matter of fact this shiet happens for most Indian stalwarts. Nehru, Ambedkar, Patel (The order changes a bit here), etc. Its a side effect of most literature on this subject being incredibly extreme in their view points and sorely lacking in nuance.
     
  14. Arthellion

    Arthellion Lord of the Banned ~ Prestige ~

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    A fair take.

    I would challenge the better human being part, but that is less about Gandhi and more about my beliefs regarding human nature, but fair. I'm always hesitant to judge historical figures by modern morality, but ya know...Robert E. Lee was a fine upstanding gentleman who encouraged people to better themselves and yet most of us would never consider him a better human being than most of us.
     
  15. Longsword

    Longsword Groundskeeper

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    Here is r/AskHistorians take on Gandhi's racism :
    https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistori...st_of_us_have_heard_that_mohatmas_ghandi_was/

    TLDR : Gandhi in his younger days was an Indian who believed in the imperial project and the Raj. He came from a section of literate Indian society that saw British rule to be vital for upward mobility. His stay in Africa changed him, and he evolved as a person.

    In my opinion a lot of his ideas were completely impractical but he did not have malice, unlike what could be said for other famous political personalities.
     
  16. Trooper

    Trooper Order Member

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    I think you misunderstood me a little.
    Gandhi was a racist. Period. At the beginning of his journey/Life he was definitively a racist person, regardless of the lens you view him from. That is not the better human part. He was better than most of us in that he recognized it as such and corrected that part of him. He evolved consciously. That is the better human part.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2019
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