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Ways to Expand the Wizarding World

Discussion in 'Fanfic Discussion' started by Averis, May 15, 2015.

  1. Averis

    Averis Don of Delivery Prestige

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    Ways to Expand the Wizarding World (Without Making an AU)

    This is inspired by something anvyl posted in the 'Questions That Don't Deserve Their Own' thread.

    My personal thoughts on this is that it is a splendid idea, though it would certainly need some work to make it work. In my mind, choosing Kwikspell over Hogwarts would be like picking up Rosetta's Stone as opposed to going to college to learn Spanish -- of course, its bound to be difficult for you to 'master' the language, but it's certainly more financially feasible, and if you're still planning on being a Muggle, you may choose not to spend seven years of your life falling behind in mathematics, science, Muggle history, etc.

    So, imagine someone like Hermione deciding that, although magic seems like a really neat trick, finishing a proper education is more important to her. It would be a stretch to have Harry in that situation, considering he'd be dying to leave the Muggle world behind, but other characters may value their 'city life' too much to leave it.

    Considering that Hogwarts is the only British school of relevance in canon, this could be an outlet for Squibs (who can't go to Hogwarts) as well as Muggleborn students who would prefer not to attend a virtually year round boarding school. Then, you would inevitably have the ones that consider Hogwarts too dangerous for their childrens, and thus had their parents opt out on their behalf, leaving them desperate for magic, but too old to start at Hogwarts. And on and on.

    Like if Justin Finch-Fletchley was British royalty and couldn't just disappear for the better part of seven years or Dean Thomas loved football so much that he decided to do it full time. They could do the Kwikspell course in their spare time, and no Muggle would be able to tell the difference.

    --

    So, that's one way to expand the wizarding world -- thousands of squibs and Muggleborns that never made it to Hogwarts and yet still know minimal amounts of magic. I can imagine Ms. Figg taking a Kwikspell course in her youth and learning enough to keep Nifflers as pets and craft home remedies or Mundungus failing Hogwarts early on but still using magic enough to make a living out of Knockturn Alley.
     
  2. Taure

    Taure Magical Core Enthusiast Prestige DLP Supporter

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    The problem with the Kwikspell thing is that there's not really any incentive. Hogwarts, as far as we know, does not charge fees. I'm sure that there's some wizards who don't attend Hogwarts for various reasons, but thousands seems like a massive exaggeration.

    For me, I've always played with the idea of Hogwarts day students (i.e. they attend Hogwarts but don't live there). In many ways this is the only way to make sense of certain parts of canon, such as Hogwarts being ~800 students large (PoA, 200 Slytherins in the crowd at Quidditch, multiply by four). A Hogwarts of this size makes certain parts of canon very odd, given no reference of extra dorms, etc. But if you make them day students, their absence from most of the story makes sense, as Harry's focus is largely on life as a boarder.

    You can even find this idea in the movies, where students are arriving at the Yule Ball by carriage. Although I don't consider the movies to be canon, they can be a source of ideas.
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2015
  3. Atram Noctem

    Atram Noctem High Inquisitor

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    I think it's more reasonable that parents who don't send their children to Hogwarts just teach them magic themselves, or hire tutors to do so. Kwikspell just sounds like a fraud, or something very basic for older wizards who failed Hogwarts. Some children might also be sent to foreign schools (like Malfoy's parents considered doing), or to apprenticeships.

    Taure, just remember that Rowling admitted she's not very good with numbers, and didn't usually take them into consideration when writing.
     
  4. Taure

    Taure Magical Core Enthusiast Prestige DLP Supporter

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    This is all well and good, but when you've given an explicit number, canon is canon.
     
  5. Lindsey

    Lindsey Death Eater

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    There is a very fancy and expensive boarding school in Vermont that allows children in the town to attend the school for free provided that they are not living at the school. (My friend went there as he lived in the town and ended up smoking weed with a Prince from somewhere in the Middle East).

    You could always make Hogwarts like that: many students attend the school and return home by day but a large handful live at the school year around. These would be those who live too far away to go home, the rich, those who receive scholarships. In Hogwarts case, maybe Muggleborns and certain half bloods have to live at the school while the rich go home each week as they have the ability to have someone pick them up.

    Or it could be the opposite. Muggleborns/the poor get to go home each day as it costs to send your children to Hogwarts boarding school. It is a way to get connections. Muggleborn are only accepted there for free as a way to educate other wizards. It would show a very different world without being very AU.
     
  6. Averis

    Averis Don of Delivery Prestige

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    I find it more unreasonable to think a Muggle would be able teach their child magic, and that every wizard or witch who has had a wizard or witch child sends their child to Hogwarts, Beauxbatons or Durmstrang. Provided that Kwikspell works, and that only Squibs seems to have trouble using it, I could see it as a viable alternative to boarding school.

    I don't recall seeing any apprentices in canon (though its used a lot in fanon), but Kwikspell is 100% a thing. Granted, that thing was used to show that Filch can't do any magic, but it's still a thing.

    I can imagine a few Muggleborns being approached by McGonagall and their parents pulling a Vernon Dursley and doing everything in their power to ignore magic altogether. Hagrid going the extra mile to make sure that Harry goes to Hogwarts does not necessarily mean that they do this with all Muggleborns (and Muggle-raised).
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2015
  7. Atram Noctem

    Atram Noctem High Inquisitor

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    I didn't mean muggleborns, I meant actual wizards from magical families who are home schooled. I'm mainly basing it off Lupin's comments in DH -
    But yeah, I'm not canceling out the option of Kwikspell and similar correspondence courses.
     
  8. Erotic Adventures of S

    Erotic Adventures of S Denarii Host

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    Didn't Rowling settle the 200 slytherin issue by saying the majority of them were alumni and supporters?
     
  9. Taure

    Taure Magical Core Enthusiast Prestige DLP Supporter

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    Nope. In fact, JKR holds that Hogwarts has ~1000 students, so the 200 figure is a bit small.
     
  10. lopeck

    lopeck Third Year

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    Not really. For one not all the houses have to have an equal number of students. And it is not required to attend a Quidditch match. So some could be doing other things while the rest of the school is busy.
     
  11. Averis

    Averis Don of Delivery Prestige

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    How about first Hogwarts letters?

    Only children that have actively performed magic are recognized by the Ministry, such that even the son of a witch and a wizard must be a 'performing magician' by eleven years old to get a letter. Neville was dropped out of a window for this very purpose, as his family grows so desperate to see him perform magic that they actually force it upon him. Boop -- now he's sure to get his letter.

    In the case of a Muggleborn, who has never known about magic, they must have a Ministry-registered bout of accidental magic to arrive at Hogwarts. Hermione, for example, summons a book across the room as a child. But the system is not foolproof; there are many times that a Muggleborn uses magic (in a crowded place, on vacation outside of the UK) that go unnoticed.

    So, more wizards exist, yet they've never even used magic. There is actually a department of the Ministry that deals with adults figuring out they have magic, with protocols ranging from outright Obliviation to, in some cases, slow integrations into wizarding society. While they would be too old for Hogwarts, it wouldn't mean that couldn't learn how to live in the new world some other way.

    I would really like to see a story, set in the Harry Potter universe, where someone adapts to wizarding life this way. The difference between being an eleven year old faced with Diagon Alley and a thirty year old whose more intrigued by the thought of Apparation taking away his morning commute than Quidditch, owls or even wands would be interesting to see. "You mean I can just Transfigure my clothes instead of buying new ones? There's a potion that makes women fall in love with me? I can buy a house elf and never have to clean again? I can go deep sea fishing without a boat, scuba gear or even a rod or reel, and there's a high likelihood I'll run into a mermaid?"

    The possibilities are endless - ranging from tragic to humorous to horrific.
     
  12. Atram Noctem

    Atram Noctem High Inquisitor

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    Huh, I like that plot bunny - I was always fascinated by the practical applications of magic.

    But it won't work with the accidental magic excuse, since the Quill detects every magical birth (which, of course, might miss immigrants or just people born abroad).
     
  13. theminikiller

    theminikiller Third Year

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    The Quill? Is that mentioned in the book? Can't remember reading about it, or is it something from Pottermore or interviews?
     
  14. Atram Noctem

    Atram Noctem High Inquisitor

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    Apparently the information is from Pottermore, though in PS Hagrid does say that "His name's been down ever since he was born." referring to Harry going to Hogwarts. There are some slight complications with Rowling's explanation, but it's word of god weather we like it or not.
     
  15. NuScorpii

    NuScorpii Professor

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    How do you explain this with the number of professors at Hogwarts? The student to faculty ratio would be ridiculous. :confused:
     
  16. Taure

    Taure Magical Core Enthusiast Prestige DLP Supporter

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    If you can have hundreds of unmentioned students, you can have a number of unmentioned professors.
     
  17. NuScorpii

    NuScorpii Professor

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    Unmentioned professors who don't bother to come to the meals in the Great Hall, especially during start of term feasts. Isn't that a little far-fetched?
     
  18. arkkitehti

    arkkitehti Groundskeeper

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    I'd say that's more about him being a Potter (a son of a wealthy pureblood family with close ties with the Headmaster) than about a magic book that just knows if you're a wizard or not from the moment you're born. It's equally possible that should Harry have turned out to be a squib, the name would have been quietly erased from the Hogwarts books.

    If there's such book, it makes Neville's treatment that much worse than it already is: there's no need to throw children out of window to see if they bounce if you can simply consult The Book.
     
  19. Goten Askil

    Goten Askil Seventh Year

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    Actually, you can't have any unmentioned DADA professor and it's a core subject. And the simple fact that Harry and Ron never complain of always having Snape at the beginning of the year suggests that there isn't another Potions teacher either.

    arkkitehti : My headcanon is that for whatever reasons, this book can only be consulted once a year, when McGonagall sends the letters. Otherwise, Squibs would probably be dealt with at birth without anyone knowing of their existence. Or maybe Dumbledore refuses to say if your kid's name is on the list to prevent such occurrence.
     
  20. Taure

    Taure Magical Core Enthusiast Prestige DLP Supporter

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    I did say unmentioned. They're at the meals, JKR just never says they are. It's not like she lists off teachers' attendance at meals. If that was the measure of what teachers exist, Muggle Studies, Runes and Arithmancy don't have teachers either.

    Or it's established Hogwarts custom that you have the same teachers throughout your 7 years.

    DADA is a problem, I admit, but actually it almost makes it better. If DADA was the only class that only had one teacher, it would just make the DADA teachers even more hilariously bad.
     
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