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Week 22 Chapters 7 and 8

Discussion in 'Bookclub' started by Shouldabeenadog, Oct 9, 2022.

  1. Shouldabeenadog

    Shouldabeenadog Death Eater

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    Chapter 7- the Pyre of Denethor
    'Burn him alive?' said Gandalf. 'What is this tale? Be quick!'
    The theme in this chapter straddles between duty and loyalty. While usually synonymous, this chapter finds the seam between the two words, and they are exemplified in Beregond and Pippin, and the servants.
    We leave Denethor a bit ago with him threatening to burn faramir alive, and he sends Pippin off to die as he most finds pleasing. But no one else of his guard is given such leave. This frees Pippin to act as he sees fit, to fulfil the duty he has been given to serve and protect the stewards, even from themselves.
    Whereas Beregond is given the difficult task of guarding the summit, having been told by Pippin what is happening, but bound by his duty to stay at his post. This is stressed by his loyalty to the stewards to save Faramir, and while it happens off screen, we do see that he has made the decision to protect faramir even if it means forsaking his duty. And we do see in the next chapter that he is punished for this dereliction of duty, but in acknowledgement of his heroism, is given the task of guarding Faramir while he heals.
    In contrast we have the servants, utterly beholden to Denethor, and so when he commands them to burn, not only do they attempt to do so, but they try to kill Beregond to do it. Gandalf is unsurprisingly kind to them, "...but let now all enmity that lies between you be put away, for it was contrived by the Enemy and works his will." And it could be seen that they received a lighter punishment than Beregond.
    As for Denethor using the Palantir and thus being used by Sauron, I'm finding a parallel between the Palantir and the Ring, in that they are powerful tools, but corrupted and so to even use them is to guarantee a loss. Considering what is currently going on, perhaps this was his perspective on nuclear weapons.

    Chapter 8- The Houses of Healing
    Merry and Pippin reunite! And its the sweetest reunion, 'Lean on me, Merry Lad!' Said Pippin. 'Come now! Foot by foot. It's not far.' This is one that I would have deerly loved to see on the big screen, with Pippin, who, charitably, has been a bit of a screw up for much of the books so far, and how he has Merry lean on him as they get him to help.
    Aragorn makes a strong and wise political choice to wait outside the city before being invited in. Legitimacy is very important, and I think Tolkien understood this.
    Ioreth, another woman, and apparently one of the few allowed to stay in the city before the siege (where did the other women go?) helps out with the healing and gives a nice way for Aragorn to presage his actual in person arrival into the city with the prophecy of the healing hands of the king. And Here we have introduced not Chekov's Gun, but Tolkien's Herb. Kingsfoil shows up waaaay back in book 1 and now we get to see it finally put to the big use.
    The herb-master (unnamed) is comedic gold. After spending equal page length as the Weathertop fight going on about the linguistics of kingsfoil and a short poem about how it fights against the black breath, but nope, they don't have any; Gandalf is out of fucks,
    "Then in the name of the king, go and find some old man of less lore and more wisdom who keeps some in his house!"
    but then he gets slammed again, this time by Aragorn to Merry, in what had me laughing aloud. Aragorn has just convinced merry to keep smoking in memory of Theoden, but is dismayed because he doesn't know where his pack with Saruman's good pipe-weed is.
    "'Master Meriadoc,' said Aragorn, 'If you think I have passed through the mountains and the realm of Gondor with fire and sword to bring herbs to a careless soldier who throws away his gear, you are mistaken. If your pack has not been found, then you must send for the herb-master of this House. And he will tell you that he did not know the herb you desire had any virtues, but that it is called westmansweed by the vulgar, and galenas by the noble, and other names in other tongues more learned, and after a few half-forgotten rhymes that he does not understand, he will regretfully inform you that there is none in the House, and he will leave you to reflect on the history of tongues."
    Comic Gold.
    Next week is chapters 9 and 10 to finish Book 1 of The Return of the King.
     
  2. Skeletaure

    Skeletaure Magical Core Enthusiast ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    Not doing the read along but that Aragorn sass is incredible.
     
  3. Nazgoose

    Nazgoose The Honky-tonk ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter DLP Gold Supporter

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    Chapter 7: The Pyre of Denethor
    • Small side characters like Beregond playing key roles make the books feel so much more... lifelike than the movies. I get why the movies are like they are, but in real life it's not a few great men making all the decisions and saving the day, it's small choices everywhere and folks who happen to be in the right place at the right time who tilt events one way or the other.
    • Finally the palantir is revealed, and knowing that Aragorn using his led to a battle of wits with Sauron I think even if it wasn't a reread I'd be able to guess that Sauron tainted what Denethor was able to see.
    • Oh and Gandalf explains it soon after. Neat.
    Chapter 8: The Houses of Healing
    • The reunion between Merry and Pippin is oddly sweet, with Merry out of it and Pippin doing his best to be cheery about it all. Interesting to learn that Elrond actively fought against their inclusion, and Gandalf for. Not sure if we're told that at all before now, it's been a minute.
    • Aragorn knowing not to press his claim and finding a framing that makes him staying outside not dishonorable to anyone is another point in his favor
    • Hehehe his sass at the guy going on about the names of the plant is wonderful. Gandalf too, calling for a man of "less lore and more wisdom" who keeps kingsfoil around.
    • Oh man this hit hard: "Then Éomer was silent, and looked on his sister, as if pondering anew all the days of their past life together." poor guy. Finding out someone you love deeply was in pain and you were blind to it wrecks you hard.
    • Merry waking up was lovely, seeing him interact with Aragorn and Pippin was a bit of lightheartedness we really needed. The conversation about Théoden was also great, and the mocking of the lore master another memorable. I didn't remember Aragorn being this sassy lol
    • I do love that the instructions for Éowyn and Faramir are to treat them like they're made of glass, and for Merry it's basically "he'll be right"
    Other Thoughts
    I continue to love Merry and Pippin's point of views. They really bring something very different from everyone else's when we get them, something a bit, not smaller but more familiar, and always in good humor. They're really rising up there in my mental "favorite characters" list, though Aragorn secured a high ranking place through sass alone.
     
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