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What if Voldemort didn't use the Killing Curse?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Rayndeon, Oct 23, 2015.

  1. Rayndeon

    Rayndeon Professor

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    Dumbledore says that Voldemort tethered Harry to life when he took his blood. That's how he survived the Killing Curse at the end of DH. But, the Killing Curse seems a little different from most magics -- it seems to border on soul magic to some extent, instantly severing spirit from flesh and sending you off past the Veil. Harry's protection let his spirit stay and the Scarcux was exorcised instead.

    However, what if Voldemort didn't use the Killing Curse on Harry? What if he just cut off Harry's head with a curse or with a sword or something? Would Harry spontaneously regenerate? Would Harry become a wraith like Voldemort did all those years ago? Is there anything in canon or what Rowling has said elsewhere on what would happen in that case?
     
  2. Seratin

    Seratin SwoleTroll ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    There are several ways to look at it.

    If Voldemort had lopped off Harry's head then possibly Harry could have endured the same wealth like existence that Voldemort was cast into.

    You could also say that because it was voldemort striking the killing blow the prophecy protects Harry. Neither can die at the hand of the other and all that jazz.

    Personally I like to think that if Voldemort dropped a piano on Harry it would have made his day a lot easier.
     
  3. Crimson13

    Crimson13 Groundskeeper

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    I mean, I get Voldemort is symbolic magical Hitler but goddamn you don't need magic to off an infant. They have zero defensive skills besides crying, screaming, and soiling themselves. Shit, he was on the second floor Voldemort could've just tossed Harry out the window.
     
  4. Republic

    Republic The Snow Queen ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    Voldemort could have just dropped a piano on Harry, or lopped his head off, or basically used any sort of magic that acted in a way OTHER than directly separating the soul from the body, allowing extra soul shenanigans, but he didn't. Depending on how your view prophesies, it doesn't matter what Voldemort could have theoretically done, in the same way that it is useless to ask what would have happened if someone else had killed Harry. They wouldn't. It's fate. Either pre-determined fate, or a fate created by the people involved. Regardless. Knowing that someone will not do something has the same result as knowing that he cannot do it.

    Also, I'd like to point out to you that this thread exists.
     
  5. afrojack

    afrojack Chief Warlock DLP Supporter

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    lol, Misread OP. Apologies.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2015
  6. TheWiseTomato

    TheWiseTomato Prestigious Tomato ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    You expect the Dark Lord to dirty his hands like a filthy Muggle?
     
  7. Taure

    Taure Magical Core Enthusiast ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    We know from the end of PS that Lily's protection covers all attacks including physical ones. The only way around it is apparently to act through a servant like Quirrel.
     
  8. gaouw

    gaouw Squib

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    and what exactly is protecting harry if voldy just levitate a tv or something equally heavy, and just cut off the spell when said tv is directly above baby harry's head?

    because it's pure physic, the descending tv of doom, that is.

    no magic involved. (other than levitating it, i mean).

    because, seriously, people, i love this series, but the rules of magic is kinda iffy, y'know?

    so many direct action is intent protected.

    what if the intent is not direct action? and no magic at it?
     
  9. Ched

    Ched Da Trek Moderator DLP Supporter

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    I'm not sure if we know the answers for certain. I can't remember a time when JKR clarified everything for us.

    The killing curse was convenient in DH because when Harry 'returned' to his body after his out-of-body experience, his body was in-tact for him to return to. If Voldemort had cut his head off instead, then yeah. I wouldn't be surprised if Harry had come back in some kind of wraith-like form. Though perhaps able to re-enter his own body when it was fixed?

    As Taure said, however, Lily's protection covered more than spellwork.

    As for why Voldemort used the Killing Curse on Harry as an infant... I like to think that the Killing Curse is ideal for creating horcruxes. It's true that our explanation in canon said that it's the murder of an innocent that splits the soul, but those were Dumbledore's words unless I'm mistaken. I have no trouble believing that Voldemort knows more about creating horcruxes than Dumbledore does, and as such he might have reason to think that the killing curse is the 'best' way to manage it.

    Start capitalizing your words. You're using other punctuation decently, and you use phrases like 'kinda iffy,' so you're either a native speaker or reasonably fluent. There's no excuse for this eyesore (even if you're on a tablet/phone).

    You don't need to be perfect. But make an effort at least.
     
  10. wordhammer

    wordhammer Supreme Mugwump DLP Supporter

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    Two parts to the argument- Voldemort has never had reason to doubt the efficacy of his Killing Curse, so he wouldn't doubt it here, seeking another solution.

    On the 'duh, physics' side, I offer into evidence:
    A. Neville Longbottom being dropped out a window only to bounce all the way down the lane like a soccer ball

    B. Quidditch, wherein people fly at up to 150 kph only to be struck by a barreling animated cannonball (bludgers are iron, you know). Yet the death rate in modern matches is near zero

    Magic > Physics, by definition. Physics describes the rules. Magic says 'Yes, but in this case we're making an exception, savvy?'
     
  11. BlackSheep

    BlackSheep Squib

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    But, at that point of time, Voldemort's killing curse had already failed against Harry twice. The first time is the first time, the second time is in the forest. You might even say that it failed thrice if you count the time their wands connected in the graveyard.
     
  12. wordhammer

    wordhammer Supreme Mugwump DLP Supporter

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    I was specifically referring to the referenced post about Voldemort using something else on baby Harry. Him not trying other things in later duels is a critical mistake on his part, derived from a character flaw as obvious as the exhaust port on the Death Star.
     
  13. onlytoask

    onlytoask Squib

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    If Voldemort didn't use the killing curse, I think Harry still would have survived. It was "fate" that Voldemort would have tried to kill Harry in a way that would leave Harry alive. He would have been capable of simply stabbing him, but destiny/fate/whatever would not have allowed him to. Or, alternatively, if he could have done so, the prophecy would not have been made and he wouldn't have tried in the first place.
     
  14. Silly

    Silly Third Year

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    Magic does weird things in this universe.

    If I were Voldemort, I probably wouldn't be comfortable throwing a victim off of a cliff or dropping a piano on them, because accidental magic can definitely happen and as far as I know protects magical children all the time.

    Likewise, weaker curses can probably be protected or warded against. If your parents resorted to a Fidelius charm to keep you safe from a mass murdering dark lord, you would think that they would have other precautions and preventative measures as well.

    Really, the Killing Curse was the best option at that point in time. As far as anybody knew, it was unblockable and killed instantly 100% of the time. Why wouldn't you go with the method that was foolproof (and easier)?

    Later on Voldemort keeps using the Killing Curse because again he has no reason to doubt its effectiveness. Yes, it failed when he tried to kill Harry as a baby, but that was because of Lily's protection. The reason for his failure had nothing to do with what spell he picked. And he solved that problem in GoF when he took Harry's blood, so there's no reason why the Killing Curse wouldn't work. Likewise, when the Killing Curse failed a second time, it was due to another outside effect (Priori Incantatem), and again it wouldn't have mattered what spell Voldemort had picked. And once again, when Voldemort had gotten around that particular problem (by acquiring the Elder Wand), he chooses the Killing Curse again because based on his knowledge it is still the most effective choice.
     
  15. omgwhocares

    omgwhocares First Year

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    I agree with what [MENTION] Republic [/MENTION] said, it was inevitable that Harry would survive death and return.

    There seems to be only two options in the style of death: Destroying his physical body or removing his soul.

    If his body was burned in Fiendfyre/chopped up into a million pieces/became dust a la Voldie's DH2 death, Harry would say 'Hi' to Dumbledore in the afterlife, get sent back as a wraith, and somehow need to find a way to acquire a body, like Voldemort.

    Similarly, if Harry was Sectumsempra'd or beheaded, he would die, come back as a wraith, and need to find a new body or a way to heal the mortal wounds on his old one.

    But if Harry had his soul sucked out or the Killing Curse cast upon him (Basically anything that does not prevent his physical body from biologically functioning), we would have the canon ending. Where Harry returns back to his body with no problem.
     
  16. Atram Noctem

    Atram Noctem High Inquisitor

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    Then we'd have a Nearly-Headless-Harry-Potter.
     
  17. Ajax the Great

    Ajax the Great Squib

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    Factors that hasn't been explored to much extent in this thread are Voldemort's own intentions going into this. Simply put, Voldemort is an arrogant prat, completely assured of his own power, and ability to 'off' baby Harry. Why would he ever consider stooping to the level of a lesser wizard, let alone a muggle, in trying to kill his 'ultimate nemesis', as decreed by prophecy? We know from the books that Tom liked to disassociate himself from anything related to the muggle world, as well as to rely on nothing but himself and his own magic. I find it very realistic that he would approach the problem with his typical Avada Kedavra, and not try to take a more logical approach, at least in the eyes of us outsiders.
     
  18. rwnzzz

    rwnzzz Squib

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    Do you mean the first time or during the Battle o Hogwarts? When he was a baby, I'm fairly certain that any attempt to harm him would've backfired, although probably not as spectacularly as a rebounding Avada. However, in the forest is an interest question. I think Tom used AK as a means of testing the wand, and the lack of protection, which is quite silly. He should've at least used an Incarceration Curse or similar on Harry to be certain that he could actually harm Harry before using a deadly curse that has backfired once before on the same person. But then again, Tom was so arrogant that he didn't bother, thinking that he was the obvious master of the Elder Wand and had Harry's blood protection thoroughly nullified.

    If Harry's body had been destroyed in the forest, I really dont know what would've happened. Spirit Form Harry seems likely, but since his soul is whole, perhaps he could've used it to recreate a body more easily? Or perhaps used the resurrection stone's power to give himself a solid ghost body? Definitely a good question, though moot in the end since we won't ever likely get a canon answer.
     
  19. theminikiller

    theminikiller Third Year

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    It could make for an interesting plot though. A story where Harry's body is destroyed in the forest and he comes back as a wraith. He would then have to figure out a way to get a body, and how to defeat voldemort, now that he has control of Hogwarts.
     
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