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What's the deal with Imperio?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Ph34r_n0_3V1L, Feb 29, 2008.

  1. Ph34r_n0_3V1L

    Ph34r_n0_3V1L First Year

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    I believe, if I can remember correctly, that the Imperius Curse causes people to feel as if they're floating in goodness (for lack of a better term), which is why it's so hard to fight against. My question is how do people under the curse manage to use Unforgivables, as they seem to require a very distinct, emotional mindset that doesn't seem to mesh with the Imperio effect?

    Just something that struck me as curious.
     
  2. Perspicacity

    Perspicacity Destroyer of Worlds ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    [Edit: Irrelevant post excised--I apparently need to learn how to read. Thanks to vanna for pointing out my idiocy.]
     
    Last edited: Feb 29, 2008
  3. Jenkins

    Jenkins Forum Bike DLP Supporter

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    I think it has something to do with the fact that the Imperiused (?) is under control from the Imperioer (again...?), therefore meaning that it is the Imperioer's will that is necessary in the casting of the spell.

    I always thought the Imperius curse just meant that the one under the curse was just a vessel for the actions of the one who cast it...if that makes sense.
     
  4. Chilli

    Chilli Seventh Year DLP Supporter

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    I think you [perspicacity that is] missed the point. Ph34r_n0_3V1L is not talking about the mindset of the caster but that of the victim. If the victim is supposed to feel relaxed and content under the Imperius and is then ordered to cast one of the other two Unforgivables, say AK, then how can the feeling of contentment coexist with the feeling of hate needed by AK?

    That's an excellent question. Well, perhaps the casting of AK requires intent more than hate. Combine that with the power rush that is probable expected to follow the kill and I can imagine the Imperius victim not having much of a conflict. I can't come up with any other explanation (or rather I can but they all suck)
     
    Last edited: Feb 29, 2008
  5. SmileOfTheKill

    SmileOfTheKill Magical Amber

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    Cool... yeah I feel great... oh I think I just did something cool...
    Ohhhh look at that looser... he should die...
    Hey I just killed him... yeah he isn't alive anymore... go me!
    That was good and fun...

    Point of that stupid little post, you can hate someone but be happy.
    Killing them could bring you joy. There, the Imperius isn't screwed over.
    Lets not have a 5 page talk that becomes a flame war.
     
  6. fuubar

    fuubar Headmaster

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    Just out of curiosity was there anywhere in canon that someone under the imperius did actually use an unforgivable curse? I remember some parts where someone under the imperius used other curses but I can't recall any unforgivables.
     
  7. Methene

    Methene Auror

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    The situation could work with no problem. The caster uses the link they have with the victim in order for him to feel unbearable hate towards the target, thus using Avada Kedavra to dispose of him. The Cruciatus would work in a different mindset, but based upon the same process.

    What I think is worth discussing is the mechanism of the Imperius Curse. You Imperio someone, who is then subjugated to your will. We have seen examples of long term Imperius affected wizards, such as Rosmerta and Barty Crouch. The latter had built some immunity towards it in the end.

    What I want to ask is how does the curse work? Do you open your mind towards the victim and give commands every now and then, letting her do whatever she wants in the meantime? Do you set parameters at the beginning for what things the victim can or can not do?

    It is impossible to maintain permanent contact since that prevents you from focusing on anything else. What does the Imperioused person do when she is not guided by the caster? The curse would be far less useful if the victim would just stand and drool.

    Let us discuss this.
     
  8. Randeemy

    Randeemy Headmaster DLP Supporter

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    I think that since Imperio the Imperius Curse is designed to give the caster complete control over the victim, their mind set should not matter as to whether they can cast the other two unforgivable curses(The Killing Curse and the Cruciatus Curse). Indeed the physical things Barty Crouch Jnr had spiders doing in the classroom cannot be done without the influence of the Imperius Curse, The caster can get the victim to do whatever they wish, including the other two unforgivable curses.

    If you want a theoretical idea, perhaps the ability of the victim to cast the other two curses is reliant on the mindset of the wizard controlling the spell, that or, the feeling of contentment is merely an illusion to prevent uprising in the mind and thus the ability to fight the curse. Like a bastardised Marxist view of religion
     
  9. hchan1

    hchan1 Sixth Year

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    To put it simply, the Imperio caster orders the victim to hate the target, so he does. This brings up another point though: if the victim originally has no clue how to cast an Unforgivable in the first place, can he do it while under Imperio?
     
  10. Randeemy

    Randeemy Headmaster DLP Supporter

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    Yes. I believe he can.
     
  11. Testament

    Testament Seventh Year

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    I mentioned this in another thread but can the Imperius Curse be used as an interrogation tool?

    Demons In The Night disputed this saying 'no' with evidence that in GoF Barty Jr used veritaserum on Moody to learn about him, rather than just Imperio him and get him to spill the answers. So he does have a valid point.

    Still, I'm curious whether the victim can only obey physical orders (do this, cast that) or do they still have enough presence of mind to subconsciously know who they are and answer any of the casters questions about themselves.
     
  12. Antivash

    Antivash Until we meet again... DLP Supporter Retired Staff

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    Canon has proven there is no need for emotions in casting the Unforgivables. Look at Harry Potter and The Imperious Mastery... er... Deathly Hallows. He just suddenly becomes insanely skilled with it.

    In the end, remember this simple fact when you are going to ask a question about Canon: Canon Always contradicts itself.
     
  13. Narion

    Narion Slug Club Member

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    Frankly, I'm not entirely sure where this notion of the Unforgivables requiring emotion to cast came from - if anything, Bellatrix's explanation of the Cruciatus curse suggests that emotion doesn't work. Rather, the curse requires intent on behalf of the caster. Hence the reason why they're considered unforgivable. In the case of someone under the Imperius curse, it sounds to me like the curse does little more than isolate the victim's awareness, and then cause the victim to act according to the will of the caster, which would suggest that any Unforgivables or similarly intent-powered spells are fueled by the intent of the original caster of the Imperius curse.

    Incidentally, anyone who uses a spell incantation as the 'name' of the spell when the spell actually has a proper name should be shot. Anyone who uses an incantation as a verb should have their legs broken.

    Narion
     
  14. Demons In The Night

    Demons In The Night Chief Warlock

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    The Imperious is a very confusing spell. It appears to act differently in situations throughout the books. There are basically two versions of this spell. Long term and short term. We see both in GoF, with Moody putting the class under it, and when Voldemort attempts to put it on Harry, but we also 'see' the long term imperious when Crouch Sr. has Barty under it for quite some time before he is able to resist it. We also see it again in HBP and DH with Malfoy using it to his advantage on Rosmerta (long term), and Harry who is "Imperious happy" in DH, uses it short term to get out of sticky situations.

    As to what people who are under long term Imperious do, well they obviously act normal and go on with their lives as people like Rosmerta, who are in public everyday, would give themselves away if there were any overt signs of the curse such as a drastic change in personality or the "empty eye" syndrome which is used in many fics where all you have to do is look in the persons' eyes to see if they are under the curse. If it was that easy to detect the Imperious then it wouldn't be nearly as effective as it is in canon. I can't remember who, but I believe it was in GoF where someone was telling stories about the first war to Harry, and the person explains that you could never tell who was under the Imperious, and it could your friends, family, etc.
     
  15. The Doctor

    The Doctor Unspeakable

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    Plot Hole #214,654/Apple/2145.6974.
     
  16. nonjon

    nonjon Alumni Retired Staff

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    I gotta say my interest in this thread ended after about a paragraph. Debating which interpretation of canon we like best makes me feel like the only kid who dressed up for the star trek convention.

    But I'm curious. Am I the only person who can't read this thread title without hearing it in Jerry Seinfeld's voice?

    Anyone? Just me?
     
  17. Demons In The Night

    Demons In The Night Chief Warlock

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    No, you're not alone. I had that brief image when I read the thread title myself.

    heh
     
  18. Randeemy

    Randeemy Headmaster DLP Supporter

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    My impression of the unforgivables is that they cannot be blocked. They can resisted, yes, but not blocked.
     
  19. Demons In The Night

    Demons In The Night Chief Warlock

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    They can be blocked, just not by a shield spell like Protego. It's possible to block them with solid objects.
     
  20. Randeemy

    Randeemy Headmaster DLP Supporter

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    Of course, I should have put by magical means. Does it excuse me that I cannot remember posting that?

    I hope my profile doesn't say 22....
     
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