When does idea borrowing from other fandom's become corny? For instance, by ideas for alchemy in the story I'm currently writing are a bit similar to those in FMA. They're not completely similar, but I've almost totally ripped off the idea of a transmutation circle. I may use the idea of 'the gate'. using the veil as a sort of, I don't know, a starting point. When does imitation like this go from being innocent idea borrowing (everything under the sun's already been done don'tcha know) to incredibly corny (their will be no clap-transmute!Harry or automail!limb Harry in my fic) to blatant "I want to write a HP story in a different fandom" crap.

I can't really think of a definitive tipping point. It can't just be the quality of writing; I've seen very well written fics that were completely ruined for me by badly crossed-over ideas.

For instance:

- "Harry has a powerful bracelet artifact." ~Nothing the matter here.
- "It can steal souls and power from magical beings." ~Ok, an idea borrowed from the .Hack games, I can deal.
- "It's called the twilight bracelet, and comes from an ancient culture or magic hidden in Japan." ~ ...Bordering crap, but I could still maybe tolerate if well written.
- "Using the bracelet is called 'hacking' and can be used on wards and the muggle internet." ~You've killed it. Blatant cross-over failure.


Is it the rip of actual terms, or details? I've seen entire concepts ruin it for me, but I've also seen certain concepts work fine. I feel the concept must be one acceptable in the HP universe (The .Hack 'hacking' and the HP uni don't really mix, but the Magic of Alchemy from FMA can mesh well with HP). However, details, to me, often ruin it. But some details fit surprisingly well.

So, what do you guys (and gals) think the tipping point is? When does mimicry become crappy cross become plagiarism?

(Note: This thread idea came to me whilst I was toying with the idea of a Harry-as-Zero fic with blatant similarities to Zero and his Black Knights from Code Geass. To me, the fic would be fine, as long as the concept of the 'Geass' were not introduced. But if the Geass were put in a fic without the Zero concept, it could work. Perhaps it's the amount borrowed, and not the material borrowed itself?)

Mods: Please edit title and remove my apostrophe in 'fandom's' if you read this. I feel kind of stupid rereading it now...

 

The idea of borrowing from another fandom isn't corny. I'm actually toying with an idea for a fic with elements from BtVS (The Mayor's ascension, with none of the BtVS characters actually making an appearence.). The problem is that most crossovers go something like this "Let's put Character A into Universe B and Oh-what-wacky-adventures-they'll-have (I think I might be quoting someone, so props). Those are truly horrendous , and make readers weary of the idea of two fandoms squished together.

Crossovers can only be written when the author finds a perfect blending point of two universes that isn't superficial, and makes sure that he doesn't use too much or too little of the crossed-over universe.

Like you said above, you have to use only the elements that fit in with HP canon. And like I mentioned before, make sure not to use too much- the story needs to still be recognizable as HP. Also, of course, make sure to credit the other universe for the ideas.

Edit: I should probably add that I'm not familiar with the fandom you're intending to cross and can only offer my opinions on crossovers in general.

 

If you can avoid it, don't take from other fandoms at all. It's lazy and make for lest interesting stories. If you can make something up in place of taking, do so.

 

Heh, is it okay to kill one man to save 100? How about 1000? Or million?

Some people will go to the extreme and tell you you shouldn't play god and mess with what doesn't concern you. Others will shrug helplessly - there's really no way to make an exact rule to measure something like that.

Same goes for a question like this. In the end, it's your 'gut feeling' that should be the judge, for each particular case independently. If you think an idea from other fandom can improve your fic, use it. If you feel you're taking it too far, than stop. Sorry, but I see no rule more solid than that.

 

Well I myself know both fandoms you use, but not as much as .Hack. Only watched Sign and though the chibi version anime sucked so I didn't care, but I know how the bracelets are used.
I myself can handle the bracelet stealing souls and power, and I could figure what fandom you are using. However, if you add "It's called the twilight bracelet, and comes from an ancient culture or magic hidden in Japan." you may need a beating.

The thing with taking other fandoms, it is like taking a person and changing there name. You can have an OC without him/her being a horrible person.
Using a tool/weapon may be more lazy, but you already know what that object does, and its weaknesses. Just like the using other characters problem.
This may be more lazy, but it stops massive error or fail from making your own device.

 

'Playing God' has always been a confusing phrase to me. If it was offending to God, then how come he doesn't do something about it? He flooded the world because he was dissatisfied with the people; he smote everyone at any time, whenever they pissed him off, in the bible. How come he's all of a sudden become timid about everything?

 

If you read the New Testament you'd understand why, as by Christian beliefs, God no longer does the whole global reset thing.

 

Surely that big red button on that shiny metallic stand up there in heaven is too much for even a god to resist.

 

LOL

It's like Eddie Izzard said: God does the Etch-a-Sketch ending of the world. "Ahh it's all crap!" /shakeshakeshake

 

Ohh come on Kender, I thought you would at least say something useful when I saw you posted here. Instead you talked about god some more like the rest of them.

 

I know, I know. I'm having an off night.

As to the topic at hand...

Unless you're writing a dedicated crossover then it usually best to be as original as possible. If, however, there's something you want to use then alter it to fit your story as much as possible. A passing simularity of ideas is okay, but if someone can say "Oh that's from <insert fandom here>" then you're just jacking an existing element rather than an idea.

 

Exactly, if you need some new person or weapon, you can chose an existing one to help you as long as it isn't a cardboard cut out.
If it is to help you make something without completely failing as it, things like this do help.

As Kender said, once the reader know the fandom and knows you are stealing from it, you loose.

 

I hate how, when a crossover character interacts with the other world, he always, ALWAYS has the simple key to defeating the bad guy.

 

Well, that is stealing from fandom, and people know it is from other fandoms. That would be a failure, but just since it hasn't been done correctly beforehand, doesn't mean it can't be done now.

 

Oh good god that example wasn't my own. Was another, actually pretty well done fic I read, that I stopped reading after it got very, very... well you saw.

Just read a great article in Newsday about cliche phrases like this, that make no sense.

There will be no crossed characters. At all. And the idea's I'm borrowing are mostly just influences... for instance;

Alchemy in my fic is not alchemy from FMA. It is not transferring energy across the gate to turn one thing into whatever you want.It's more the alchemic circle I'm borrowing, but I suppose circle magic is common in many fics. I'm using it differently, and more like in the cannon of FMA, though a bit more complex. Technically, I think FMA is based on old alchemic myths...

As for the CG borrowing, it's really only the concept of having a secret identity to lead a revolution/attack force. And possibly having him have a badass mask and name. I wouldn't, however, be borrowing things like the mecha, or the names of characters. I'd feel too unoriginal.

Conclusion: It's a gut feeling thing. Idea borrowing is best avoided, unless it can fit very well into the HP fandom and is essential to your story. Try to be original, but it's ok to take influence from other sources.

My fic is filled with influence, but I doubt anyone could notice anything more than a passing resemblance of similar themes to the influences.

 

When will we get to see this fic, all this talk and spell creation is buiding it up. I am sure it will deliver, but it better be soon, like UPS overnight soon if you catch my drift.

 

Well, I've seen chapter one - or, was that the prologue? - but it's far from enough; I would like to read more.

Have you started work on chapter 2 yet, LogrusMage?

 

Chapter one is fini. I've been very busy the past week, so chapter two is a bit slow coming out. I've started two, but it's taking a bit. I probably won't put it on FF.net until it's 10,000+ words, which should be around chapter 3, if I go at the pace I'm going. I'm debating whether to go back and edit one to include more back story for one of the characters... or to do that in chapter 4 when he's, ahem, taken care of.

I've got a marble notebook, and I'm plotting it out chapter by chapter, and brainstorming ideas. I've got some [what I think are] original ideas. A few have some implementation issues, and I keep having to throw out some because they don't fit with my story.

I send you chapter one, Hyphen. You can edit/comment on it. It's been given the once over by a few people already, but I always appreciate criticism (always angers me how my English teachers won't give it unless I ask directly).

BTW: To all who've read my Fic thread and/or chapter one... any ideas for a name? I'm at a total loss... working title is "LogrusMage's Fic"....