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World Politics thread

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Erotic Adventures of S, Aug 1, 2017.

  1. The Iron Rose

    The Iron Rose Headmaster

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    Is this... a real post?


    Seriously?
     
  2. Sesc

    Sesc Slytherin at Heart Moderator

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    All sorts of more interesting things to discuss ...

    For instance, given the right shift of the Likud, and Netanjahu's need to rely on the far right and religious ultras, it's now a possibility we will see annexing of large chunks of the westbank.

    To David Ben Gurion it's attributed that a state of Israel could be two things: A Jewish state, a democratic state, or a state in all of biblical Israel. Not all three of those -- just two. And so he regretfully picked the former two. By the principle of exclusion, it seems clear that we are moving towards picking option one and three, since by remaining democratic, it would cease to be Jewish, and that's not going to happen.

    Netanjahu (and most leaders before him, actually) managed to avoid the choice so far by punting, but at one point, the Arab Israelis will have to be addressed and the two-of-three conundrum arise again -- and actually annexing a sizable chunk of the remaining possible land for a state of Palestine accelerates this indeed.
     
  3. Oment

    Oment The Betrayer

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    T_D has plot armour if I recall. They have pulled shit that has seen other subreddits be banned. In general, though, Reddit is basically a microcosm of the internet at large, which is to say it probably leans vaguely left of centre as a whole. Tremendous variation due to the set-up of everything, though.

    Re: Israel, and specifically Netanyahu's victory - are there any real chances of the corruption charges that have been levied against him going anywhere, either on their merits or because some form of immunity law exists/is created? He's not forced to resign if found guilty, which further complicates matters, I suppose.
     
  4. Giovanni

    Giovanni God of Scotch

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    Meanwhile, in a bid to prove that they're not anti-Semites, UK's Labor Party seems to have stepped in it again.
     
  5. Aekiel

    Aekiel Angle of Mispeling ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    It's like a car crash that keeps on crashing.
     
  6. Psychotic Cat

    Psychotic Cat Headmaster

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  7. Oment

    Oment The Betrayer

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    Whee, unforced errors.
     
  8. Zerg_Lurker

    Zerg_Lurker Order Member DLP Supporter

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  9. pbluekan

    pbluekan Headmaster DLP Supporter

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  10. ScottPress

    ScottPress The Horny Sovereign ~ Prestige ~

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    #BillBurr2020
     
  11. Arthellion

    Arthellion Lord of the Banned ~ Prestige ~

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    I'd vote for The Rock if he ran more on a campaign of "Unifying the Country" and appointing people to handle all the major jobs while he travels and you know...leads on more of a personal/ideal level.

    One thing America needs is healing. We can't continue at each other's throats like this for much longer. We need someone who can actively work to show respect and love to one another again as fellow americans.
     
  12. Chengar Qordath

    Chengar Qordath The Final Pony ~ Prestige ~

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    Nice idea in theory, but I don't think that will happen as long as the two-party system is a thing. When there's only two viable political parties, everyone's going to have a strong tendency to fall into "Us vs Them" thinking.
     
  13. Nazgus

    Nazgus Chief Warlock DLP Supporter DLP Gold Supporter

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    There's definitely been a drift to more polarization and partisanship, here's one article/study talking about it. Seems pessimistic to say that it can't be any better than this.
     
  14. DR

    DR Secret Squirrel ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    It's not so much that there are two parties, but more that those parties are a natural expression of the divides between rural and urban, coastal and interior, north and south, etc. You can't just paper over those.
     
  15. Hakairyu

    Hakairyu Fourth Year

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    Disagreed. It's rather that political disagreement tends to express itself through those binaries when the political system realistically allows only two parties to exist and define it in a meaningful way. Abolish ballot access laws, introduce alternative vote and whatever other institutional changes are necessary to make a multi-party system viable; and with all the non-voters and third-party voters as well as the division between distinct groups within each party that is mostly swept under the rug in order to not show weakness taken into account; I can easily see both parties splitting threefold. Evangelicals, business conservatives, and Trump's base do not really like each other. Progressives, neoliberals, and the old left do not really like each other. Not that it's ever going to happen, but it would make American politics much more reasonable.
     
  16. deyas

    deyas Seventh Year

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    Or infinitely more toxic, as whatever mediating influences those individual groups had on each other ceases to exist. I suppose, perhaps, that they might still have a mediating influence on each other if for no other reason than they would need to have strong coalitions in order to pass anything with a majority of the vote, but at that point, your basically at an even less efficient version of a two party system. Unless I'm misunderstanding something.
     
  17. Agayek

    Agayek Half-Blood Prince DLP Supporter

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    You're missing something. That's how like 90% of Europe operates in their Parliaments (IIRC the UK and its descendant nations are the only other first world governments that do first past the post, winner takes all). Allowing for multiple parties would, indeed, fracture the existing parties into several distinct pieces, where each piece has their own agenda and they'd have to either win a majority or be able to form a coalition with other, similar parties to get anything done.

    A change like that means that there will, in fact, be things like the Tea Party and Progressives being their own distinct party, with their own more radical agenda than what they've got under the existing dynamic, that much is true, but they won't be able to do anything with it unless they make some serious political gains.
     
  18. DR

    DR Secret Squirrel ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    That's nice, but it's not the point. In the system we have, which as you say is structured to produce two-party competition, the deep divisiveness of the binary party model naturally expresses deep identity divides that already exist in the polity. CQ was talking about "us vs. them thinking". Well, in a two-party model, there is an us and a them, and identity grafts onto that, combined with shared group concerns, to produce us vs. them politics.
     
  19. Chengar Qordath

    Chengar Qordath The Final Pony ~ Prestige ~

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    Exactly this. Which, to get back to the original point, is why broadly popular moderates would have a very hard time emerging in the current system.

    It doesn't matter how moderate or reasonable a candidate is, the other party will still see them as the enemy. Meanwhile, their own party will see any moderation or attempt at bipartisanship as weakness, collaboration with enemy, and not being a "True Conservative/Progressive."

    Multi-party systems are better at avoiding that, at least as long as they don't coalesce into two fixed blocs of parties that are a de-facto two party system. Coalitions and alliances being flexible makes it a lot less "Us vs Them" and more "We all have things we care about, let's come together to find common ground."

    Granted, your best bet to have long-term stable moderate rule is probably just to give up on democracy and put a moderate pragmatist in charge as dictator/monarch/whatever. Stable, competently-run single-party/nondemocratic systems generally pull towards the center in a broad sense because radical change isn't good for regime stability. Likewise, they're a bit better at long-term thinking because democracies always struggle to see or plan anything past the next election. It's a lot easier for a leader to be apolitical if they don't have to deal with any of the politics inherent to modern democracy.

    That's not say this is a good idea. Just that if you want non-partisan apolitical rulers, you pretty much have to get rid of partisan politics as a factor in selecting rulers and allowing them to retain their post.
     
  20. Zerg_Lurker

    Zerg_Lurker Order Member DLP Supporter

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    Conventional wisdom seems to contradict this. While fringe parties don't have enough sway to dictate a national agenda on their own, a multi-party system is more centrifugal when the main parties don't have enough votes for a majority and are forced to form coalitions with the peripheral parties, e.g. Netanyahu's Likud capitulating to the far right Hasidim. And if in a multi party system you've got parties large/strong enough to ignore the fringe parties, you end up with a de facto two party system.
    You still see coalitions aligning themselves a long a political spectrum; nobody goes out of the way to ally with parties across the aisle before exhausting all options aligning vaguely with your own. Last time I remember that happening, Nick Clegg was, very briefly, relevant. Even then it's still a lot of "we don't want those chucklefucks in charge, and you don't either, let's deal."

    Lol. I almost want to just leave it at that.

    If by "generally move toward the center" you mean "grow more repressive to dissidents and accumulate more power to maintain their position" then yes, I and every dictator ever fully agree with you.
     
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