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Kalas
01-11-2009, 08:56 PM
Title: Wild World
Author: HowdyU
Category: Abandoned
Rating: M
Chapters: 5
Words: 44,920
Updated: April 23, 2009
Published: November 17, 2008
Link: LINK!! (http://www.fanfiction.net/s/4661328/1/Wild_World)
Summary: Salvation from chaos or ashes and dust from the whole of creation? Which will Naruto choose when the world is his playground? He should be careful though - he isn't the only one playing the game.

And now for a quick look at Howdy's other, underaprreciated Naruto fic 'Wild World'. A fic, I must say, I find myself liking ever so slightly more then HotH. Read and enjoy.


@Howdy: About the rope thing. I know it isn't what you meant but I can't help but imagine Orochimaru's purple rope-bowtie when I read it.


Checked: June 7, 2012

Iztiak
01-11-2009, 09:01 PM
Yeah, I like it better than HotH. Already tossed it up for review over at ADD. ^^

Hope it stays at this level of quality. I'll give it a rating after a few more chapters, it's a bit too short at the moment.

LT2000
01-11-2009, 09:14 PM
For me, it'll depend on where it goes, and how closely Howdy decides to hug to canon (yes, that can be read as plz no Wave Arc). I like the story so far, however.

Howdy
01-12-2009, 12:29 AM
Honestly I didn't think I'd see this story here, as it's a bit silly so far and I don't have much direction for it.

After writing the third chapter though, I'm very excited as to where this can go. Hopefully it will be something a bit different and refreshing as far as super-bloodline fics go.

One thing I'd like to say about this fic right from the get go:

I've read a few short and terrible Rinnegan!Naruto stories in which Naruto starts collecting corpses and assigning powers to them a la Pain Rokudou.

This will not be happening in my fic, as I don't believe that Pain Rokudou is an actual ability of the Rinnegan. Instead, I believe that Pain and all of his respective abilities are simply ninjutsu that he created.

My views can be read here in detail:

http://forums.narutofan.com/showthread.php?t=463467

I'm basing Naruto's bloodline on what we know about young Nagato and my own theories on the subject.

Bad news for some:

Chapter 4 will be the Wave Arc in a condensed version. Things happen there that will be essential to the story (and no, I don't mean hooking up with Fem!Haku).

AntiChrist
01-12-2009, 12:35 AM
I like it well enough, but I really think that it's premature to say anything definite regarding the story. I don't have a clear idea of where the story is going, but I'll certainly be following the updates. I'll rate after a few more chapters most likely.

LT2000
01-12-2009, 02:14 AM
(and no, I don't mean hooking up with Fem!Haku).

:(

...lulz (filler).

Perspicacity
01-12-2009, 02:27 AM
Chapter 4 will be the Wave Arc in a condensed version. Things happen there that will be essential to the story (and no, I don't mean hooking up with Fem!Haku).

Better Fem!Haku than Bottom!Haku.

I'm enjoying this story. It's written well and fairly believable for for a badass, jaded Naruto (well, except for Ino's pulling a 180; that seemed a bit sudden). Will wait to rate, partly because I'm not yet well enough read in the fandom that my opinion should count for much.

Cxjenious
01-12-2009, 02:48 AM
I'm not sure which I like better... gimme an update and I'll decide then.

Howdy
01-12-2009, 02:49 AM
Better Fem!Haku than Bottom!Haku.

I'm enjoying this story. It's written well and fairly believable for for a badass, jaded Naruto (well, except for Ino's pulling a 180; that seemed a bit sudden). Will wait to rate, partly because I'm not yet well enough read in the fandom that my opinion should count for much.

The Ino thing was sort of a spur of the moment decision (like pretty much everything else I've written in this), but I like where it's lead so far.

I figure that Ino is one of the characters that didn't have much interaction with Naruto throughout the academy, aside from seeing Naruto as a goofy screw-up.

That's were Chouji and Shikamaru come in, because it's hinted a bit in the manga that they were closer to Naruto than others.

Ino got dragged along to lunch, and found that Naruto didn't act nearly as badly as she had expected him to.

Curiosity piqued, she made an impulse decision and decided to spend a day with Naruto doing something she normally enjoys.


I'll probably build on that a bit more later, but for now that's where my logic came from.

Synchro
01-12-2009, 03:13 AM
Enjoying this. Glad to see you have plans for this fic. I wondered if you were going to actually continue writing it.

I did think that Sasuke's whining and tantrum were OOC from canon. The fandom tends to overdo the spoiled-genin-Sasuke routine so often that it seems normal, but I don't see canon-Sasuke wailing about the Grand Fireball being copied seeing as he learned it from his father in the first place - he knows its not his jutsu.

If you aren't having the six bodies, then what do you reckon the six paths are? Rikudou means six ways, doesn't it?

Howdy
01-12-2009, 03:48 AM
Enjoying this. Glad to see you have plans for this fic. I wondered if you were going to actually continue writing it.

I did think that Sasuke's whining and tantrum were OOC from canon. The fandom tends to overdo the spoiled-genin-Sasuke routine so often that it seems normal, but I don't see canon-Sasuke wailing about the Grand Fireball being copied seeing as he learned it from his father in the first place - he knows its not his jutsu.

If you aren't having the six bodies, then what do you reckon the six paths are? Rikudou means six ways, doesn't it?

Sasuke's reaction was more shock and envy than anything.

The best he could do was lash out at Naruto for his immediate success.

We saw a similar reaction - though much more internal - to his witnessing Naruto's Rasengan in canon. In this he externalized his feelings because it was his jutsu that was made to look so trivial by someone he thought far beneath him.

At least when it happened in canon Sasuke had some real respect for Naruto. Here Sasuke is just in shock.


The Six Paths could mean many things - referring to the Buddhist cycle of Realms, of course - but I can't see them referring to Pain Rokudou directly.

If you read my thread on the subject, then you'd know that many of the abilities of Pain don't have squat to do with the actual realms described in Buddhist mantra and can be easily explained as simply advanced ninjutsu techniques.

I seriously doubt that an ability of the Rinnegan is to stick chakra receivers into dead corpses at will, after all.

Also, I find it odd that Nagato doesn't display any Rinnegan doujutsu abilities in all the three years he stays with Jiraiya aside from mastery over all chakra manipulations.

It doesn't seem that Rinnegan comes with a whole laundry list of techniques and abilities like the Sharingan or Byakugan - it just lets its bearer progress with limitless potential as a shinobi.

se7en
01-12-2009, 06:01 AM
Bad news for some:

Chapter 4 will be the Wave Arc in a condensed version. Things happen there that will be essential to the story (and no, I don't mean hooking up with Fem!Haku).


If you are going to do the wave-arc, please have the levels of the ninja right. Zabuza is an A-Class missing-nin. He is more capable than a whole lot of Konoha nin. Even when he was a child, he killed more than 100 people. I read in so many fics that he is somehow kind hearted, and he goes back to Konoha. That's nonsense. He basically took the humanity of a child and raised him as a weapon that he said in canon that is more powerful than Zabuza himself. He also too Kakashi to the brink, and defeated him 1v1 into the water prison, where he could have killed him quickly, if the genin were not there. The only reason that he lost was that he was confused and he was defeated by the Sharingan (Zabuza's first encounter with that bloodline.)


And I also realize that Haku is kind-hearted and all, but he is a weapon made purely to please Zabuza and his wishes. If Zabuza wanted the Konoha genin to die, it is Haku's obligation to do so.

These two characters are way underestimated because of the fact that they are in the beginning of the Manga. I hope you consider what I wrote when you are writing the fic. These are just my observation though. I don't really have any proof or anything to back what I said up. :)

LT2000
01-12-2009, 10:15 AM
I've always thought that Zabuza's line about Haku being stronger than him was a bluff to intimidate the Konoha-nin (or whoever he said it to, it's been so long since I've read that part that I don't explicitly recall). If Haku were that powerful, he would not have been defeated by a not even one tailed Naruto, or have had to break out his Bloodline Limit over a Sasuke who didn't even have his Sharingan at that point in time. However, I do agree that Zabuza himself is habitually underpowered by fanfic authors (not that I believe that Howdy will do so).

Howdy
01-12-2009, 11:09 AM
I've always thought that Zabuza's line about Haku being stronger than him was a bluff to intimidate the Konoha-nin (or whoever he said it to, it's been so long since I've read that part that I don't explicitly recall). If Haku were that powerful, he would not have been defeated by a not even one tailed Naruto, or have had to break out his Bloodline Limit over a Sasuke who didn't even have his Sharingan at that point in time. However, I do agree that Zabuza himself is habitually underpowered by fanfic authors (not that I believe that Howdy will do so).

Yes, Haku is chuunin level at best.

Zabuza was most likely referring to his bloodline technique, but even that should be fairly easy to upset for someone of Kakashi's level (not to mention he has a real Sharingan).

I'm still not sure how much I actually plan to change the canon interactions in the battles, since I don't want that to be the focus of this arc. Despite all of the gasp-worthy moments in the actual manga, looking back it's hard to say that Kakashi didn't have the situation in hand for most of the arc - Water Prison aside (and honestly, if Neji can somehow break out of one I think that Kakashi would have figured something out as well - it's not an intant victory technique).

LT2000
01-12-2009, 11:17 AM
Yeah, I wasn't referring so much to the idea of Zabuza being inferior to Kakashi as a ninja (he probably was, but not to the degree that I'm talking about), as much as to him being so much weaker that he gets his ass handed to him by the author's omg Super Naruto, or having Kakashi go 'no u' and wipe the floor with him as though he were a genin. Even if he's not entirely equal in skill to Kakashi, he's still very much a legitamite threat.

Chime
01-12-2009, 11:32 AM
Haku probably has more potential than him, is probably what Zabuza meant when he said he/she was stronger than him.

The problem with a wave-arc redo is that even if you alter the outcome, we all know what's going to happen. It's not interesting, since even if the battle is written differently, or if Haku or Zabuza survive, etc... we know that Naruto will return to Konoha mostly unchanged and in the scope of the entire story the chapters featuring the wave arc seem to be a bunch of a boring filler. Tazuna and Inari are also overdone cliche characters that I'm just sick of hearing about.

Dethklok
01-12-2009, 04:06 PM
My enjoyment of this story as opposed to Houses of the Holy are maybe 55-45% depending on the update. I didn't enjoy the first part of Chapter 11 of HotH, but I still love the story.

As far as this, Rinnegan!Naruto....here's hoping Howdy can do something epic with it. In canon, to my knowledge, Naruto before the timeskip has very few attack jutsus. Here, he has at least one, with more on the way, presumably. And the one he has, he swiped off Sasuke and did it better than him on his first try, which should chap Sasuke's pale ass.

All that said, I'm waiting for when the bomb is dropped and those in power know that the demon container they all looked down upon has a doujutsu on par with the vaunted Sharingan and Byakugan. Jiraiya teaching a second Rinnegan user, that should fuck with his mind something fierce.

se7en
01-12-2009, 04:10 PM
I would think that Naruto would have that kept as sort of a secret. He might be a little kid, but he knows he is the kyubbi. In the future, there will be people after him. I think if anyone high-up saw him with his doujutsu, they would try to keep it on the down low. Because someone with the Rinnegan would be VERY valuable in the black market. Those eyes would be worth a fortune.

Dethklok
01-12-2009, 04:22 PM
How would Pain react to knowing his organization's highest value target has the Rinnegan, making them related somehow?

Howdy?

Krogan
01-12-2009, 04:30 PM
I would think that Naruto would have that kept as sort of a secret. He might be a little kid, but he knows he is the kyubbi. In the future, there will be people after him. I think if anyone high-up saw him with his doujutsu, they would try to keep it on the down low. Because someone with the Rinnegan would be VERY valuable in the black market. Those eyes would be worth a fortune.

That might be true when he figures out he has a doujutsu but as of now unless I overlooked something big he has absolutely no idea why he eyes are like they are, what they are or even that something is helping him learn things that he wouldnt have been able to before. Also besides Ino and Teuchi I don't recall him showing his eyes to anyone else.

Lhefriel_Medies
01-12-2009, 07:04 PM
Also besides Ino and Teuchi I don't recall him showing his eyes to anyone else.

Other than the hordes of people he glared at on the streets? It seems inevitable that it's going to get to the higher-ups in some form or another. Blue eyes with concentric circles are fairly distinctive, and many would probably recognize them as at least healthy, if not for what they are. Kakashi probably has his suspicions that something has happened with Naruto's eyes, between the encounter in the forest, his jutsu theft, and his persistent eyewear. The changing of the last likely discounting the Hokage's theory of sentimentality.

Either way, liking this a bit more than Houses of the Holy at the moment, although primarily from a curiosity as to how things are going to play out to form a plot. Although it goes without saying, updates in either would be lavishly welcomed.

Howdy
01-12-2009, 08:38 PM
I'd originally started on chapter 12 of HotH, but due to a good bit of cajoling I think I'll put that on hold until another chapter of WW is out.

RJL333
01-12-2009, 09:02 PM
Sweet, you are awsome!

AntiChrist
01-12-2009, 09:15 PM
Other than the hordes of people he glared at on the streets? It seems inevitable that it's going to get to the higher-ups in some form or another. Blue eyes with concentric circles are fairly distinctive, and many would probably recognize them as at least healthy, if not for what they are. Kakashi probably has his suspicions that something has happened with Naruto's eyes, between the encounter in the forest, his jutsu theft, and his persistent eyewear. The changing of the last likely discounting the Hokage's theory of sentimentality.

Either way, liking this a bit more than Houses of the Holy at the moment, although primarily from a curiosity as to how things are going to play out to form a plot. Although it goes without saying, updates in either would be lavishly welcomed.

I'm pretty sure he had his goggles on during that time, so that it would really not be extremely obvious what form his eyes took besides the eerieness factor of it. In addition I believe that Kakashi probably thought Naruto simply had an extreme fire affinity rather than anything like a bloodline factor.

Krogan
01-12-2009, 09:16 PM
Other than the hordes of people he glared at on the streets? It seems inevitable that it's going to get to the higher-ups in some form or another. Blue eyes with concentric circles are fairly distinctive, and many would probably recognize them as at least healthy, if not for what they are. Kakashi probably has his suspicions that something has happened with Naruto's eyes, between the encounter in the forest, his jutsu theft, and his persistent eyewear. The changing of the last likely discounting the Hokage's theory of sentimentality.

Either way, liking this a bit more than Houses of the Holy at the moment, although primarily from a curiosity as to how things are going to play out to form a plot. Although it goes without saying, updates in either would be lavishly welcomed.

You do make a good point and I didnt think about that but what I meant by showing was him being two inches away and letting them take a good long at his eyes. Sure he glared at the folks on the street but it was from a few feet away for a short amount of time before they turned away.

Howdy
01-12-2009, 09:26 PM
He stared down a bunch of civilians in the early morning, yes, but you have to remember that hardly anyone knows anything about the Rinnegan.

Jiraiya hung out with eight-hundred year old toads who still believed the legend to be a mere myth.

The story of the Sage of the Six Paths is like the story of Jesus. Sure they believe it happened, but no one is going to see something a bit odd and start ranting about how they saw a kid with the legendary Rinnegan - especially if that kid is Naruto.

I doubt that civilians even know the story of the Sage, seeing as they don't know much about shinobi abilities in general from what we've seen.

Also, it's one thing to have heard the story of the Sage and the Rinnegan and another thing to know what a Rinnegan looks like and know when you see it.

People are not going to go around telling their friends that the Kyuubi brat has the power to destroy the world utterly or save it from ruin and is the Second Coming of the Sage.

Orm Embar
01-12-2009, 09:34 PM
Honestly, someone needs to make a bloodline!Naruto fic that's worthy of five stars, and you've started off quite strong. Between your two pieces of Naruto fiction that you're currently working on, I have to say, I think this one is a little better.

Keep up the good work.

Lhefriel_Medies
01-12-2009, 10:03 PM
The story of the Sage of the Six Paths is like the story of Jesus. Sure they believe it happened, but no one is going to see something a bit odd and start ranting about how they saw a kid with the legendary Rinnegan - especially if that kid is Naruto.

I doubt that civilians even know the story of the Sage, seeing as they don't know much about shinobi abilities in general from what we've seen.

Well, consciously making the connection between Naruto's eyes and the Sage of Six Paths would be a difficult leap. But being surprised that Naruto has a secret bloodline is a far cry from being surprised at being stared down by solid blue eyes. Although no one would know the significance, given the general suspicion of Naruto, it seem reasonable to jump to another conclusion from the perspective of a citizen; that the eyes must be a manifestation of the Kyuubi. Whether or not it's logical, the irrational disgust at his tenant could lead to some crazy stories. Those stories in combination with Naruto's exhibited talents might give cause for some research, which, again, could reveal his identity.

It seems slightly ridiculous to argue the point with the author, but it seems valid that there would be the possibility of a chain reaction just the act of looking into any mysterious occurrences surrounding the "Kyuubi brat". Especially when said individual seems to be intent on "hiding" the changes from the outside world.

But, I really don't care either way. It seems that this is going to be brilliant no matter which direction you take it.

You do make a good point and I didnt think about that but what I meant by showing was him being two inches away and letting them take a good long at his eyes. Sure he glared at the folks on the street but it was from a few feet away for a short amount of time before they turned away.

Like I said before, there's plenty of cause of suspicion whether or not they had a good look; to me, it just seemed as if anything out of the ordinary might tip the balance. I guess not though.

I'd originally started on chapter 12 of HotH, but due to a good bit of cajoling I think I'll put that on hold until another chapter of WW is out.

Eagerly awaiting.

Tezcatlipoca
01-13-2009, 08:38 PM
Mastery over the elements because he has rinnegan now in story would it possible for him to perform seal less elemental justu with enough practice? I always thought elemental bloodline was combination of two elemental affinities. In theory could naruto not recreate something like ice or wood justu?


(http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Chakra#Basic_Elemental_Chakra)

Aekiel
01-13-2009, 09:13 PM
Considering what information about rinnegan been reveal so far in manga could not naruto with practice recreate Mokuton techniques and even mastery the second hokage had over water. Even Haku ice kekkei genkai techniques he could copy and improve upon with time. Copy the techniques of most clans of konoha to given enough time and him seeing them with his eyes.

Apart from your terrible grammar, you've completely missed how the Rin'negan works. It is not a kekkei genkai that allows the combination of elements to form another. It is the ability to master every single element to their fullest degree.

He may be able to combine earth and water to create something else, but it would more than likely just be dirty water, or mud, not Mokuton. It is not the be all and end all of bloodline abilities, its effects are just that much more suited to the shinobi lifestyle that it has become the most powerful in that situation.

Shezza
01-13-2009, 09:25 PM
What I like about this story, all future parts being ignored atm, is the interaction Naruto has with the rest of his classmates. They actually act like kids instead of little demon-hating whatevers.

Torak
01-13-2009, 09:41 PM
What I like about this story, all future parts being ignored atm, is the interaction Naruto has with the rest of his classmates. They actually act like kids instead of little demon-hating whatevers.

This

They all act like the little douchebags kids we all love and hate

Howdy
01-13-2009, 10:35 PM
Apart from your terrible grammar, you've completely missed how the Rin'negan works. It is not a kekkei genkai that allows the combination of elements to form another. It is the ability to master every single element to their fullest degree.

He may be able to combine earth and water to create something else, but it would more than likely just be dirty water, or mud, not Mokuton. It is not the be all and end all of bloodline abilities, its effects are just that much more suited to the shinobi lifestyle that it has become the most powerful in that situation.

The manga has stated that the wielder of the Rinnegan can potentially learn any ninjutsu.

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/425/09/

I haven't decided if I'm going to take that to its ultimate conclusion, given the fact that we've seen no real evidence of the veracity of this statement, but I wouldn't put it past Kishimoto to give Nagato this power.

The way I believe Rinnegan to work, it would certainly be feasible.

Tezcatlipoca
01-13-2009, 10:46 PM
Would it be in naruto best interest whenever he understand exactly what he can do with rinnegan to hide his secret for a long as possible or eventually revealed it someone he trust?

Kalas
01-13-2009, 10:50 PM
Though the fact has to be considered that despite the phrase 'any/every technique' continually popping up it's anything but. Consider the Sharingan. Can copy any jutsu, among other things. Mokuton though? No. Bloodline techniques are off limits. Ultimately it's up to you Howdy. God of Shinobi? Or simply Sharingan/Kakuza hybred.

Would it be in naruto best interest whenever he understand exactly what he can do with rinnegan to hide his secret for a long as possible or eventually revealed it someone he trust?

The second he reveals he has the Rin'negan of legend the army of assasians after his head is not hard to imagine, nevermind the Akatsuki. On the other hand holding your capabilities back form your teammates is likely to get someone killed. Thoughts Howdy?

Tezcatlipoca
01-13-2009, 11:02 PM
Naruto life always been complicated one way or another. I don't think his team need to find out I can easily see sasuke getting jealous and doing something stupid that could get his team killed. As for secrecy way it always been ironic in my opinion that information naruto being container of fox get out and yet who his who his parents were was well kept secret. Either way there going be more complications in naruto life for however long he decide or can keep his secret. For what naruto can do with the rinnegan well considering what Mangekyo Sharingan attacks can do in manga it up to author of story to decide I look forward reading what happen later on.

Howdy
01-13-2009, 11:47 PM
New chapter, K?

Torak
01-14-2009, 12:54 AM
Lol its been updated

That was without a doubt the quickest rehash of Wave Arc I ever read

Howdy
01-14-2009, 12:56 AM
Lol its been updated

That was without a doubt the quickest rehash of Wave Arc I ever read

That was sort of the point.

I kept the important bits and cut out everything else - something that I should have done with chapters 8-10 of HotH.

AntiChrist
01-14-2009, 01:05 AM
Awesome. Not too much changed, but it was nice seeing the subtle differences that resulted. I'm glad Naruto seems a bit smarter and the respect between the members of team 7 seems to be slightly greater. I also like that you didn't completely overpower Naruto. I noticed you had Naruto think about the possibilities of combining two elements, but I think if you give him access to bloodline skills you might make him too super. Good chapter.

Howdy
01-14-2009, 01:12 AM
Awesome. Not too much changed, but it was nice seeing the subtle differences that resulted. I'm glad Naruto seems a bit smarter and the respect between the members of team 7 seems to be slightly greater. I also like that you didn't completely overpower Naruto. I noticed you had Naruto think about the possibilities of combining two elements, but I think if you give him access to bloodline skills you might make him too super. Good chapter.

I'll say this right now.

If I do decide to take it that route, it probably won't be for a while. Combining those elements without a built-in bloodline affinity would be insanely difficult.

Krogan
01-14-2009, 01:17 AM
Very cool Howdy, very cool indeed. The trick with Naruto overriding Zabuza's mist, can Pein do that or was that your thoughts on the Rinnegan shining through?

Howdy
01-14-2009, 02:13 AM
Very cool Howdy, very cool indeed. The trick with Naruto overriding Zabuza's mist, can Pein do that or was that your thoughts on the Rinnegan shining through?

Just my thought.

In my story, Rinnegan gives insight even surpassing the Sharingan and Byakugan, but as you can see has much less viability in actual battle.

The idea for the mist reversal came from rereading the manga. Zabuza doesn't use any fancy seals to form the mist aside from the one pose, so I figure that most of the effort is mental, or "spiritual" as I put it.

Naruto was able to mimick him and use his own Rinnegan-driven spiritual power to overcome Zabuza's jutsu by pretty much performing it himself.

Obviously, the current uses of the Rinnegan for Naruto are very limited. I'll address what he plans to do about that more in the next chapter.

Ksai
01-14-2009, 04:42 AM
Great chapter. The only thing that's I don't quite agree with is Kakashi in this story.
The guy is genius. He have been a shinobi since he was a kid. Participated in wars and was ANBU commander (captain). And I find it hardly unlikely that he cant put pieces together when his student start asking about Sharingan, learns a Jutsu in one day and masters tree walking exercise in a first try. He should at least suspect that Naruto has got his hands on a doujutsu.

On the other hand... He may just keep quiet... :)

Synchro
01-14-2009, 06:57 AM
Enjoying this more than ever Howdy! I like the way you are slowly allowing us to move along with him as he discovers the Rin'negan. And the way he dealt with Inari was intriguing as well. The same theme as the manga, yet with a different base for the argument from Naruto. He has also developed the 'precious people' thing on his own here.

I also liked that you showed that Sasuke worked out the high speed movement technique and the unrefined Body Flicker on the fly. Naruto admitting to himself that Sasuke had earned the title of genius was also a good point. Canon Naruto might not have been able to react so calmly to Sasuke's growth, but the changes you have brought about in the previous chapters are starting to reflect very clearly and nicely now.

Lhefriel_Medies
01-14-2009, 10:34 AM
The more you write, the more I want. :/.

Random Shinobi
01-14-2009, 10:53 AM
I like it.

While the six clones are obviously not a power granted by the doujutsu, Pein's 'shared vision' ability could be. At least that's what Jiraiya thought.

There is no reason to assume that the ability wouldn't work with Shadow Clones too, meaning that if Naruto and his clone both activate the Rinnegan at the same time, they share their visions. It would probably be a very hard ability to get used to, though.

Howdy
01-14-2009, 10:57 AM
I like it.

While the six clones are obviously not a power granted by the doujutsu, Pein's 'shared vision' ability could be. At least that's what Jiraiya thought.

There is no reason to assume that the ability wouldn't work with Shadow Clones too, meaning that if Naruto and his clone both activate the Rinnegan at the same time, they share their visions. It would probably be a very hard ability to get used to, though.

Actually, the shared vision is almost certainly not an ability of the Rinnegan.

It's an ability of Pain that relies on the chakra receivers in the bodies.

After all, vision isn't the only sense they share. All data is presumably processed through Nagato, including vision.

It was most likely a mistake on Jiraiya's part, though it's understandable seeing as he has no idea what the Rinnegan is capable of.

Random Shinobi
01-14-2009, 11:32 AM
It's an ability of Pain that relies on the chakra receivers in the bodies.

After all, vision isn't the only sense they share. All data is presumably processed through Nagato, including vision.
I said it could be. But anyway, there is no evidence that other senses are shared. It is plausible to think that the clones are just advanced puppets that Nagato can control from distance because his Rinnegan allows shared vision.

Kalas
01-14-2009, 05:17 PM
I said it could be. But anyway, there is no evidence that other senses are shared. It is plausible to think that the clones are just advanced puppets that Nagato can control from distance because his Rinnegan allows shared vision.

All the Rin'negan puppets are controlled by the same person RS. The only way for them not to share senses would be if they lacked them.

Good chapter Howdy. Despite this being a very fast rehash of the Wave arc you pulled it off with style. About the Rin'negan, it sees the intent of the jutsu from the spiritual energy as well as the basic application of the chakra?

Howdy
01-14-2009, 05:46 PM
All the Rin'negan puppets are controlled by the same person RS. The only way for them not to share senses would be if they lacked them.

Good chapter Howdy. Despite this being a very fast rehash of the Wave arc you pulled it off with style. About the Rin'negan, it sees the intent of the jutsu from the spiritual energy as well as the basic application of the chakra?

The way I see it, a jutsu has three elements:

1. Seals. Not all jutsu use seals, but for those that do the seals help aid in guiding the chakra to form the desired effect.

2. Body Energy. This is the component of chakra that is formed by every cell in the human body, and can be increased through training and physical fitness.

3. Spiritual Energy. This is the mental component of chakra, in which a ninja puts his intent into his chakra and will it to create the effect he wants his technique to have.

Spiritual Energy is what the Rinnegan is seeing, so if a ninja is using a water technique, that ninja is adding a water component to his spiritual energy and combines that with his body energy which is then guided through seals.

For instance, let's take a look at the Rasengan:

The Rasengan has no seals, but is a ball of spinning chakra created from both physical and spiritual energy.

Which one of those elements makes the chakra spin, though?

It's the spiritual energy - the will of the ninja to make his chakra spin in a tight ball.

Tezcatlipoca
01-14-2009, 06:11 PM
Does anyone have any ideas on how naruto rinnegan has will view fuinjustu or if he should try his hand at fuinjustu like his father did? Considering some of techniques ninjustu and fuinjustu that Pain uses to communicate with other Atatsuki members. The technique he uses to create clones for other members like Shōten no Jutsu is pretty impressive.

Verse of Darkness
01-14-2009, 06:43 PM
I wonder how Orochimaru would react to see a Rin'negan!Naruto... if he believes in the legend.

Apothem
01-14-2009, 06:53 PM
./cough Er... Feels like the first time is by Foreigner.

Howdy
01-14-2009, 07:05 PM
./cough Er... Feels like the first time is by Foreigner.

Shit.

I knew I meant to update my library.

Thanks for catching that.

I wonder how Orochimaru would react to see a Rin'negan!Naruto... if he believes in the legend.

Well he was in Akatsuki, so either couldn't recognize it by sight (I don't think any of them can), or he realized that trying to snatch a body from someone with that bloodline limit was asking for painful annihilation.

After all, Orochimaru's jutsu is essentially a super-powered Yamanaka mind control move that moves his spiritual essence from body to body.

Trying to use it against a guy with the ultimate spiritual bloodline is like - I don't know - staring an Uchiha in the eye at the beginning of a fight.

Oh wait, he did do that.

Verse of Darkness
01-14-2009, 07:20 PM
I know that... I'm just saying would his reaction to Naruto when he sees his doujutsu?

Howdy
01-14-2009, 07:26 PM
I know that... I'm just saying would his reaction to Naruto when he sees his doujutsu?

You'll just have to wait and find out, I guess.

I already know who is going to be the first to see them, though.

Sol
01-14-2009, 08:27 PM
I'm actually glad that this story has come out now, as I've had a Rinnegan!Naruto AU plot bunny hopping around my head recently, and I can't even update the one story I've written consistently.

I very much agree with your theories on the Rinnegan's function, however I am curious how it will view Biju, which, if I'm not mistaken, are purely spiritual energy.

I am curious to see how you will handle the 6th element, but what's been written so far gives me high hopes.

My only issue is the fact that these glasses of his somehow hide the fact that he has more rings in his eyes than the average person. The color, sure, but the rings? Eh?

Howdy
01-14-2009, 08:42 PM
I'm actually glad that this story has come out now, as I've had a Rinnegan!Naruto AU plot bunny hopping around my head recently, and I can't even update the one story I've written consistently.

I very much agree with your theories on the Rinnegan's function, however I am curious how it will view Biju, which, if I'm not mistaken, are purely spiritual energy.

I am curious to see how you will handle the 6th element, but what's been written so far gives me high hopes.

My only issue is the fact that these glasses of his somehow hide the fact that he has more rings in his eyes than the average person. The color, sure, but the rings? Eh?

No one looks closely enough. The rings are very thin.

Take your pick.

Bijuu, in my opinion, are not purely spiritual. They have a physical form and interact with the world around them - though they are made entirely from chakra (and in Shukaku's case, the earth that he pulls together to create his form with his chakra).

Examples of almost purely spiritual entities in my opinion would be the Konoha detection barrier, the Shinigami, and King Enma.

They're things that a normal ninja can't sense at all unless they're interacting with them directly (as in the case of the Shinigami and Enma).

Verse of Darkness
01-14-2009, 08:53 PM
Is the Kyuubi knowledgeable of the Rin'negan?

Also, is it gonna effect the Kyuubi Chakra?

Howdy
01-14-2009, 09:06 PM
Is the Kyuubi knowledgeable of the Rin'negan?

Also, is it gonna effect the Kyuubi Chakra?

Yeah.

Not giving those away either, sorry.

Tezcatlipoca
01-15-2009, 01:10 AM
What fox relationship going be like with naruto now since he has rinnegan? Is he going be helpful to him at all or being like first time they met trying scare naruto? I would think fox might want his vessel to be as strong as possible since he not wear anymore orange jumpsuits and saying that annoying phase. I am referring whenever naruto draw on fox power it does not fight him over it. The container and eight tailed beast is only one I know has some form of a good relation is Kirābī.

Aekiel
01-15-2009, 04:54 AM
What fox relationship going be like with naruto now since he has rinnegan? Is he going be helpful to him at all or being like first time they met trying scare naruto? I would think fox might want his vessel to be as strong as possible since he not wear anymore orange jumpsuits and saying that annoying phase.

No. Just no. Please for the love of everything that is good in this world, no.

The Kyuubi is not some fashion guru. It is not a judge of human standards. It is a massive and powerful force of nature manifested in the form of a gigantic fox. It cares about orange jumpsuits and somewhat annoying phrases about as much as I care about the Paris Hilton Fan Club. It exists solely to destroy, and if it picked up human language along the way, fine.

Also, it does not know any advanced chakra theory. What kind of 20 storey tall walking monster of death and destruction would?

Ksai
01-15-2009, 07:42 AM
It exists solely to destroy, and if it picked up human language along the way, fine.
Ummm...
Could you give any cannon data to verify this line? Cause as far as I remember, we were never told clearly what's Kyuubi's agenda is or what are his goals.
Though I agree with everything else. I hate it when authors make this entity into some kind library of human Jutsu or an expert sword master or a sixteen year old girl with flaming hair and giant libido.

Ranku
01-15-2009, 09:37 AM
If I recall correctly, it's said that the Kyuubi is a natural disaster that is generally attracted where there's a lot of malice and whatnot. Natural disasters, generally, only destroy shit.

So, it can be said that that's pretty much its whole existence. I kind of figure that while Kyuubi might know some shit, it doesn't really have an attention span as far as "planning" goes. It's like a dog (an admittedly smart one): it'll learn some trick over time (human speech in the Kyuubi's case), but when it tries to run away, it just digs under the fence. It doesn't slowly plan its escape or change how it acts to lull its masters into a false sense of security.

That's why I've never really gotten into the whole "very intelligent and wise" Kyuubi that some fanfics have; the Kyuubi is neither intelligent nor wise, and trying to portray him as such is just kind of.. eh, out of character, seeing as how he's never acted that way even a single time that I can recall (though I don't claim to have a perfect memory, so I might be wrong here).

Anyway, to get back on topic, I'm very much enjoying this story so far, and the only thing that I found fairly off-putting were the silver hems on Naruto's new gi. It just didn't seem to go very well when combined with the black clothes combined with the orange ropes (which I found very cool, as it has a certain.. Naruto-ish flair to it).

I'm looking forward to the next chapter even more than the last, so I hope it's out soon, Howdy. Keep up the good work.

Howdy
01-15-2009, 10:28 AM
I have plans for Kyuubi in this story, and hopefully they live up to everyone's expectations.

I'll be doing something that I haven't seen before in a fanfiction as far as the back story goes.

To be clear though - the Kyuubi is a massive manifestation of malignant chakra, not a divine entity or an all-knowing, benevolent teacher.

Random Shinobi
01-15-2009, 11:46 AM
Also, it does not know any advanced chakra theory. What kind of 20 storey tall walking monster of death and destruction would?
Actually, it probably does. Healing Naruto with demonic chakra that is supposed to corrode everything it touches is not a small feat. Neither is the Kyuubi Cannon or the chakra shroud. Kyuubi has prodigious chakra control and many human lifetimes of experience.

Tezcatlipoca
01-15-2009, 11:49 AM
Are you planning later on for naruto be able to draw out fox power into justu? Whenever fox chakra flood naruto body will it effect his rinnegan? If naruto could channel trace amount of fox power into rasengan it is highly corrosive or any elemental justu.

Aekiel
01-15-2009, 11:59 AM
Actually, it probably does. Healing Naruto with demonic chakra that is supposed to corrode everything it touches is not a small feat. Neither is the Kyuubi Cannon or the chakra shroud. Kyuubi has prodigious chakra control and many human lifetimes of experience.

That's likely as not to be instinctive. The natural properties of the Kyuubi's chakra induce healing, but in a human host it also has the side effect of being corrosive. The Kyuubi itself isn't harmed by its own chakra, just the more fragile human it's hosted in is.

The Kyuubi cannon is about as simple as you can get as an attack. It releases a massive amount of chakra and blood, reabsorbs it, and fires it in the direction of the enemy. It may be damn powerful, but that's because the Kyuubi has a shit load (possibly infinite amount) of chakra, not because of good control.

Chime
01-15-2009, 02:00 PM
If the Kyuubi fully, or even partially, understood chakra, it could mimic the jutsu and special abilities of other ninja. Healing is instinctual to it, otherwise the Kyuubi would be able to copy and give his vessel a sand-manipulation shield like Gaara, or perform any of the other ninjutsu shown in the manga.

I don't know about the whole dog analogy thing. I don't think the Kyuubi is a beast, but more akin to a "beast-god". He possesses rationale and can analyze his memories to solve problems and come to conclusions. I would liken him to an arrogant or hedonistic noble, not the philosopher-king most authors make him out to be. Not that it's a bad idea, but it's just overdone.

Does the Kyuubi care about what Naruto's wearing? Or his taste in food? Or even his level of power? Unlikely, unlikely, possibly. The Kyuubi probably wants either a weak vessel, so he can overcome its will with temptation or guide its action, or a strong vessel, so it can survive and give him time to escape his seal. Food probably isn't crossing his mind, and who knows if the Kyuubi even knows what Naruto's wearing at any given moment.

Random Shinobi
01-15-2009, 02:50 PM
If the Kyuubi fully, or even partially, understood chakra, it could mimic the jutsu and special abilities of other ninja. Healing is instinctual to it, otherwise the Kyuubi would be able to copy and give his vessel a sand-manipulation shield like Gaara, or perform any of the other ninjutsu shown in the manga.
Who says Kyuubi can't? It is said that one swing of its tail could crumble a mountain or cause a tsunami. That sounds like Earth and Water jutsu to me.

Necrule Paen
01-15-2009, 03:36 PM
Who says Kyuubi can't? It is said that one swing of its tail could crumble a mountain or cause a tsunami. That sounds like Earth and Water jutsu to me.

And that sounds like hitting the ground very hard with its tail to me.

Tezcatlipoca
01-15-2009, 04:15 PM
There little information cannon wise from manga how fox was able cause all this damage by swinging his tails. Much like rinnegan all that is left are legends since manga never really talked about damage fox did to konoha or how he did it before he was sealed. The only thing fourth hokage could do was sealing up fox and was summoning reaper himself at cost of his soul. does anyone think assuming right people know about his rinnegan that naruto will get more training? He still need work on his hand seals speed.

Since naruto because of tree exercise example can seem to measure what chakra needed to stick to object. Does anyone think because his eyes if he could mastered some medicinal ninjustu or with time learn chakra control use Tsunade strength techniques?

Ksai
01-15-2009, 11:37 PM
Does anyone think what been seen so far in story that Kakashi will cut down on favoritism toward sasuke and give rest team equal training? Since naruto because of tree exercise example can seem to measure what chakra needed to stick to object. Does anyone think because his eyes if he could mastered some medicinal ninjustu or with time learn chakra control use Tsunade strength techniques?
Dont...
Just dont write things like this. First of all - I can hardly ever remember even once instance where Kakashi showed favouritism in manga. The only thing that could even come close to it was teaching only Sasuke Chidori, but that was vital necesisty.
Second... the ability to copy jutsu does not mean you can do them correctly. Maybe you can copy some medical jutsu, but that does not mean you can operate a patient with a torn kidney. More purely academical skills are needed. Experience is also a must and you cant steal it with doujutsu. Dont overpower Sharingan or and other doujutsu - Kishi already did that for us. No need to make the berers of eye techniques godlike.

Iztiak
01-16-2009, 12:50 AM
The only thing that could even come close to it was teaching only Sasuke Chidori, but that was vital necesisty.

Not to mention that I think it said somewhere that only people with the Sharingan can even use it...

Howdy
01-16-2009, 01:02 AM
Not to mention that I think it said somewhere that only people with the Sharingan can even use it...

Yes.

Minato says that Kakashi shouldn't use the Chidori in combat until he got Obito's Sharingan.

The Chidori requires the user to move at incredible speed towards his target and results in tunnel vision and an inability to react to counters.

The Sharingan overcomes those shortcomings.

Tezcatlipoca
01-16-2009, 07:15 AM
Ideas on how his eyes can help him with chakra manipulation like his father rasengan? Naruto trying to learn how use medicinal ninjustu later on to help with his chakra control. From what been shown in last chapter of wild world he used his eyes to help himself with tree climbing exercise. By watching sakura climb tree first help him measure amount of chakra he need to run up tree. what I was trying to say was could he trying to learn medical ninjustu help his chakra control.

sorry about bad grammar and syntax

Ksai
01-16-2009, 07:53 AM
I was not referring to him copying any techniques naruto using to learn medical ninjustu to help his chakra control. Supposedly you need excellent chakra control to use medical ninjustu properly. The tree exercise example his eyes help him determine and experiment with right amount to chakra to climb the tree. My last posted did not said anything about him copying any techniques. I should be more clearer saying he experiment with techniques of that nature to improve his chakra control. As for academic skills that mixed reaction consider his placement in academy versus what he can use in real life as a shinobi.

Ideas on how his eyes can help him with chakra manipulation like his father rasengan?
What?

Ok. English is not my native language. And I do make lots of mistakes... But my command of it is probably not enough to understand what you've written.

Just WTF ?

AntiChrist
01-16-2009, 09:48 AM
I'm pretty sure it's saying that Naruto can use his eyes to learn more chakra control exercises like tree climbing to improve his control to the point where he can perform medical jutsus properly.

From what I understand about the eye, I don't think this would work. Even though it shows how the spiritual energy is being manipulated, it doesn't automatically allow you to use it correctly. That's my 2 piece.

Tezcatlipoca
01-16-2009, 02:11 PM
Whenever later on information about eyes come out and sense naruto has different mindset does anyone think people like Danzo or other shinobi will try to gain favor with naruto? Will people then assume fox cause change to his eyes fearing naruto and mistrust him more?

Cxjenious
01-16-2009, 08:31 PM
Why don't you just wait till he gets to that point in the story? Asking now will just ruin it then.

Sol
01-16-2009, 08:51 PM
My bet is on Jiraiya-sama recognizing eyes and story continues to diverge from there.

Howdy
01-17-2009, 12:55 AM
I just wanted to say that I was really excited by chapter 431.

Did anyone notice that all four of the Pain realms were watching Naruto with their Rinnegans activated when he went up against Preta realm?

Apparently they're good for seeing things other than barrier fields.

lanceavalon
01-17-2009, 01:20 AM
Well he can't see natural energy so pain kind of fucked. If I read it right the energy around Naruto is only Natural energy and nothing else.

Howdy
01-17-2009, 01:36 AM
Well he can't see natural energy so pain kind of fucked. If I read it right the energy around Naruto is only Natural energy and nothing else.

You're right.

Pain didn't see what Naruto was doing, but the fact that he was using his Rinnegan meant that he expected to see something.

It sort of supports my spiritual energy premise for this fic, because now we have confirmation that he can see something that has to do with ninjutsu but not with natural energy.

That really leaves only chakra as a whole - which can be seen by both the Rinnegan and the Byakugan - or some component of chakra such as I have surmised.

aty
01-17-2009, 03:03 PM
Great fic howdy i just hope that naruto stays badass and isnt pussified by konoho.

Cxjenious
01-17-2009, 11:32 PM
Yes, heaven forbid Naruto become "pussified by konoho."

Kalas
01-18-2009, 10:20 PM
Yes, heaven forbid Naruto become "pussified by konoho."

Sarcasm C? Really, we expect better from a senior member like you.

aty how did you mean "pussification"? I'd really like to get your two cents.

Howdy
01-18-2009, 10:38 PM
Great fic howdy i just hope that naruto stays badass and isnt pussified by konoho.

I know just what you mean.

We wouldn't want him to become a pussy like Hashirama, Hiruzen, Minato, Sakumo, Jiraiya, Orochimaru, Tsunade, Itachi, or Kakashi, now would we?




Wut?

LT2000
01-18-2009, 10:52 PM
Don't forget Grandmaster Ebisu, the man who redefines what it is to be badass.

Torak
01-19-2009, 12:35 AM
Don't forget Grandmaster Ebisu, the man who redefines what it is to be badass.

This

Dude wears shades you can't get more badass than that

OnTopic- Can't Wait for the eventual Kyuubi/Naruto Interaction

Cxjenious
01-19-2009, 12:41 AM
OnTopic- Can't Wait for the eventual Kyuubi/Naruto Interaction

Ah, eureka! I would like to see that as well. But, I can't help but think that Pein tampering with the seal has something to do with use having not heard from him.

To Kalas - You would've done the same thing, admit it. Or something similar.

Howdy
01-19-2009, 12:48 AM
Ah, eureka! I would like to see that as well. But, I can't help but think that Pein tampering with the seal has something to do with use having not heard from him.

Wrong story, methinks.

And I must say that I too am excited to introduce the Kyuubi.

Cxjenious
01-19-2009, 01:45 AM
Yes, wrong story indeed. I just realized where I was. Claiming temporary insanity.

Tezcatlipoca
01-20-2009, 04:21 PM
Does naruto need any female interest in this story or should he be alone? Consider all that he got a head of him I don't think it realistic for him to have time for any female interest.

GiantMonkeyMan
01-20-2009, 04:33 PM
He's a teenage boy, of course there's going to be some girls in his sights. Does it mean that Howdy should start spouting pairings? I'd rather he didn't... but at the moment it looks like Ino has a chance of being the main focus, at least for a while.

se7en
01-20-2009, 10:20 PM
I don't think that a relationship would be the main focus of the story right now.

Kalas
01-20-2009, 10:45 PM
When the relationship is the main focus of the story, as opposed to the plot, you have a problem.

Howdy
01-20-2009, 11:13 PM
Also, I'm excited about doing a pairing that might just be the first in this fandom ever. I'll have to keep writing quickly though, or someone will beat me to it. We'll see how that goes, I guess.

I posted this a few days ago over at A Demon's Desire.

Figured I might as well throw you a bone.

And no, I'm not going to divulge who it is, but as with HotH I don't intend to make romance a large part of this fic.

Kalas
01-20-2009, 11:18 PM
Oh God... oh GOD... it's Moegi isn't it?

AntiChrist
01-20-2009, 11:23 PM
Actually I believe I recall reading a Moegi pairing a while back. Also from the flow of the story, I don't think that Naruto would end up with someone younger unless the pairing doesn't come in until much later. My bet would be on Shizune actually.

Gravity
01-20-2009, 11:55 PM
First in the fandom?
Ah shit good luck with that...
that is unless of course your planning NaruxAkamaruxPakkun

yuck.

Howdy
01-21-2009, 12:03 AM
First in the fandom?
Ah shit good luck with that...
that is unless of course your planning NaruxAkamaruxPakkun

yuck.

NarutoxRaikage, actually.

All that hot muscle - should be good, ya know?

Ravari
01-21-2009, 01:12 AM
Ton-ton? >.>

Torak
01-21-2009, 01:15 AM
Naruto/Minato's Moms

Howdy
01-21-2009, 01:17 AM
Naruto/Minato's Moms

I like that.

Naruto/Grandma.

Torak
01-21-2009, 01:22 AM
But seriously good luck with that original pairing:awesome

So any word when that next chapter is coming out or you mostly focusing on Houses of Holy?

Howdy
01-21-2009, 01:33 AM
But seriously good luck with that original pairing:awesome

So any word when that next chapter is coming out or you mostly focusing on Houses of Holy?

WW 5 should be out by the weekend, methinks.

Inferis
01-21-2009, 02:16 AM
I like that.

Naruto/Grandma.

Grandmas can be hot too you know. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IPDOB4yzzo&fmt=18)

:awesome

Gravity
01-21-2009, 06:00 AM
A proper stab at what the eventual pairing will be.

NarutoxIno's mum

(Stacy's Ahem! Ino's mum, has got it going on! She's all i've wanted and i've been waiting so long!) :banana:

Shezza
01-21-2009, 06:37 AM
It's getting off to a good start but there's a couple of things that bother me. Mostly, it's the use of the cliched 'happy masks' and new clothing. What's wrong with Naruto wearing orange, not because it's the cheapest thing, but that he actually likes the colour? Sasuke ears a giant red/white fan on his back, Sakura has pink hair and Kakashi is...well, no, he looks pretty cool. Even Orichimaru and the Sound Four have those weird rope things. Nothing wrong with an orange jumpsuit.

And what kind of 12 year old kid, jaded or not, tells everybody about his 'happy masks' and all that kind of crap. Don't get me wrong, it's probably all right but there are better ways to spring it on the reader other than using the same old Naruto cliches.

The Wave arc was a bit rushed. I understand you didn't want to get stuck there like a lot of other stories but it felt a little bare at times. It could have been used for some more characterisation or whatnot.

That said, I like this story. I'll give it 4/5

Poytin
01-21-2009, 06:24 PM
Howdy. FYI I've seen a Naruto/Raikage before. Also seen a Naruto/Tsuchikage's daughter. Think about that.

Apothem
01-21-2009, 06:58 PM
Howdy. FYI I've seen a Naruto/Raikage before. Also seen a Naruto/Tsuchikage's daughter. Think about that.

We've all seen that. And it's not the central pairing in Fuinjutsu, either. (As far as can be determined thus far.)

Evan Tide
01-21-2009, 07:40 PM
Naruto/ Fem!BeastRealm!Pein? Its never been done before.

Aekiel
01-21-2009, 07:50 PM
Naruto/ Fem!BeastRealm!Pein? Its never been done before.

It's also essentially necrophilia...

Evan Tide
01-21-2009, 07:52 PM
Would it be considered gay since the real Pein is a guy?

Narf
01-21-2009, 07:54 PM
It's getting off to a good start but there's a couple of things that bother me. Mostly, it's the use of the cliched 'happy masks' and new clothing. What's wrong with Naruto wearing orange, not because it's the cheapest thing, but that he actually likes the colour? Sasuke ears a giant red/white fan on his back, Sakura has pink hair and Kakashi is...well, no, he looks pretty cool. Even Orichimaru and the Sound Four have those weird rope things. Nothing wrong with an orange jumpsuit.

And what kind of 12 year old kid, jaded or not, tells everybody about his 'happy masks' and all that kind of crap. Don't get me wrong, it's probably all right but there are better ways to spring it on the reader other than using the same old Naruto cliches.

The Wave arc was a bit rushed. I understand you didn't want to get stuck there like a lot of other stories but it felt a little bare at times. It could have been used for some more characterisation or whatnot.

That said, I like this story. I'll give it 4/5

You bastard. PLAGIARISM. Though you didn't cuss as much as I did. :|

Howdy
01-21-2009, 07:54 PM
Howdy. FYI I've seen a Naruto/Raikage before. Also seen a Naruto/Tsuchikage's daughter. Think about that.

Canon Raikage?

Gigantic black man?

Ouch.

It's also essentially necrophilia...

Which makes it excellent. :awesome

I suppose I could also do Naruto/Chick-that-becomes-Beast-Realm-Pain.

LT2000
01-21-2009, 08:14 PM
I wish I could say that the pairing would be Naruto/Gatou, but he's already dead. Instead, I will cast my vote for Gatou becoming a Pain Body. :)

Howdy
01-21-2009, 08:24 PM
I wish I could say that the pairing would be Naruto/Gatou, but he's already dead. Instead, I will cast my vote for Gatou becoming a Pain Body. :)

Demon Realm Gatou would be epic.

He's like a little robo-midget from hell.

Someone needs to write this, methinks.

Gravity
01-22-2009, 09:20 AM
if you really did do a Naruxanimal would fanfiction net take it off?

Apothem
01-22-2009, 04:39 PM
So, you mean like NaruToad?

Kalas
01-22-2009, 04:58 PM
Animal Realm. Chick!Pain.... wait what? Your EvilTaxi?

Howdy
01-22-2009, 04:58 PM
So, you mean like NaruToad?

We have a winner.

Yes, everyone. This is a Naruto/Shima pairing.

Dethklok
01-22-2009, 05:52 PM
Question, Howdy.

You've already shown how the Rinnegan responds and reads elemental chakra being formed into a jutsu, but how would it read something like Shikamaru's Shadow Bind, or Ino's mental jutsu, or a time/space jutsu?

I would think that those types of jutsu would fall under the yin/yang manipulations as opposed to the elemental manipulations.

This also goes along with how would Naruto's Rinnegan percieve pure chakra moves, such as the Kaiten, or the Rasengan?

And if possible, can you at least give us, and by us, I mean me, since I'm dying to know, at least the general emotional reactions/dispositions/thoughts of Pain and Jiraiya respectively, when it comes to both their attentions that Naruto posesses the Rinnegan?

Howdy
01-22-2009, 06:02 PM
Question, Howdy.

You've already shown how the Rinnegan responds and reads elemental chakra being formed into a jutsu, but how would it read something like Shikamaru's Shadow Bind, or Ino's mental jutsu, or a time/space jutsu?

I would think that those types of jutsu would fall under the yin/yang manipulations as opposed to the elemental manipulations.

This also goes along with how would Naruto's Rinnegan percieve pure chakra moves, such as the Kaiten, or the Rasengan?

And if possible, can you at least give us, and by us, I mean me, since I'm dying to know, at least the general emotional reactions/dispositions/thoughts of Pain and Jiraiya respectively, when it comes to both their attentions that Naruto posesses the Rinnegan?

My Rinnegan sees the spiritual component of chakra, which in my mind represents the intent of the ninja.

You'll see a bit of Ino and Shikamaru in chapter 5, so I won't go there now.

As far as Pain and Jiraiya's reactions, I think they'd both be curious but not shocked. After all, Jiraiya has seen this before.

Pain may be cautious as to how to deal with Naruto, but he's never even once mentioned his own doujutsu, so I don't think it really plays into his whole god mantra as much as it could. Pain doesn't seem like he believes in divine mandate or anything of the like. Rather, he simply uses his Rinnegan as a tool to accomplish the change that he and his friends wanted to bring to the world. Rinnegan or no, I still think that Pain would attempt to strip Naruto of the Kyuubi and accomplish his plans.

Dethklok
01-22-2009, 06:11 PM
Could Pain in dealing with a Rinnegan!Naruto, have a real problem?

Is Pain's fighting style, namely the Six Paths of Pain, the correct/best use of the doujutsu? The Rikoudou(Am I spelling this right?) Sennin didn't use 6 bodies to fight and he was the original shinobi.

Would Naruto, although there is virtually no information on the Rinnegan, actually use his bloodline limit better than Pain?

Thoughts, Howdy?

And Pain would really feel nothing about this? Naruto would be a relative, perhaps his only relative. I'm not looking for a soft Pain at all, but you wouldn't have the thought at least cross his mind?

Pain and Naruto in this are related through the Rinnegan somewhere along the line. Would something cross Pain's mind about this?

Howdy
01-22-2009, 06:20 PM
Could Pain in dealing with a Rinnegan!Naruto, have a real problem?

Is Pain's fighting style, namely the Six Paths of Pain, the correct/best use of the doujutsu? The Rikoudou(Am I spelling this right?) Sennin didn't use 6 bodies to fight and he was the original shinobi.

Would Naruto, although there is virtually no information on the Rinnegan, actually use his bloodline limit better than Pain?

Thoughts, Howdy?

And Pain would really feel nothing about this? Naruto would be a relative, perhaps his only relative. I'm not looking for a soft Pain at all, but you wouldn't have the thought at least cross his mind?

Pain and Naruto in this are related through the Rinnegan somewhere along the line. Would something cross Pain's mind about this?

I won't comment on the first point, since it would be giving away too much.

As far as relatives go, Nagato will probably be as closely related to Naruto as I am to you.

The Rinnegan is an ultra-rare recessive genetic power that has appeared only once in history before it's seen in Nagato. All evidence points to the Sage of the Six Paths living more than a thousand years in the past (Fukasaku is 800 according to the databook and still knows of the Sage only as a legend). So basically, no. Nagato is set on his plan and has put it in motion. Another Rinnegan user wouldn't have much if any emotional effect on him.

Kensington
01-22-2009, 06:25 PM
We have a winner.

Yes, everyone. This is a Naruto/Shima pairing.

That just made me a tad queasy.

Combining Mrs. Robinson and Equus with an amphibian twist does not sound appealing to read.

Hopefully you'll make the pairing work.

Kalas
01-22-2009, 07:13 PM
That just made me a tad queasy.

Combining Mrs. Robinson and Equus with an amphibian twist does not sound appealing to read.

Hopefully you'll make the pairing work.

... I lol'd.

Gravity
01-23-2009, 01:16 AM
This thread should be moved to 'Sick and Perverse' Xd

Apothem
01-23-2009, 08:04 AM
Animal Realm. Chick!Pain.... wait what? Your EvilTaxi?

Last I checked, I wasn't. Where are you getting that idea? Ah... No, I haven't logged into BvS in around a year, though.

Chime
01-23-2009, 08:07 AM
Howdy, just make the pairing Naruto/Herself. Either through some form of henge, or his bloodlimit, give him a second "self" and him fall in love with it. It would be even cooler if he did it at first without realizing he was falling in love with a female clone of himself (it would definitely shock your readers if they too were left guessing who this mysterious oc was).

ForsakenOne
01-23-2009, 08:26 AM
Howdy, just make the pairing Naruto/Herself. Either through some form of henge, or his bloodlimit, give him a second "self" and him fall in love with it. It would be even cooler if he did it at first without realizing he was falling in love with a female clone of himself (it would definitely shock your readers if they too were left guessing who this mysterious oc was).

Naruto/Herself?! :awesome. DO IT.

Evan Tide
01-23-2009, 03:37 PM
Naruto/Herself?! :awesome. DO IT.

I third this motion.

Loki
01-23-2009, 04:02 PM
There was a Harry Potter fic that did that quite well. :awesome

Evan Tide
01-23-2009, 04:27 PM
I hope the Hp fic that did it very well will update soon.

se7en
01-23-2009, 05:44 PM
How did we end up on this topic?

Wildfeather
01-23-2009, 05:51 PM
Who cares?

I've seen plenty of Naruto/Herself though, not that original. What about Naruto/Kiba's mom (Tsume?). Actually, I've seen Naruto/Shikamaru's mom too...

The story itself seemd fairly realistic, though, like mentioned above the wave arc was (thankfully) short. I'm wondering about whether or not Naruto can see Kankuro's puppet strings, to be honest. Even if it technically isn't a bloodline, it'd seem kind of weak if Naruto could copy Shikamaru's shadow bind, considering how much chakra he has he could could just hold anyone and then Sakura/Sasuke kills anyone. He could hold people for a lot longer then Shikamaru too. And there's no reason Naruto would ever use Ino's technique, even if he learned it as far as I can see.

SmileOfTheKill
01-23-2009, 06:09 PM
He could hold people for a lot longer then Shikamaru too.

I could see it now.
Epic battle this is not, but it is the ninja way.

Naruto captures some super uber ninja.
Some generic chat here.

"So you copied the Shadow-Bind, well done. However I will kill you when I move again you brat." Says some generic uber ninja.

"Who says I'm going to stop using this technique? I'm going to make you die by standing still!" Replies Naruto.

Long pauge here.

Rehio
01-23-2009, 06:51 PM
Animal Realm. Chick!Pain.... wait what? Your EvilTaxi?

There was a glitch in the banners a while back. Apparently a lot of people became EvilTaxi for some reason.

Tarnished Blade
01-23-2009, 06:53 PM
. . . And there's no reason Naruto would ever use Ino's technique, even if he learned it as far as I can see.

Save for what the demon fox does while the land lords out . . .

Perspicacity
01-23-2009, 07:18 PM
There was a glitch in the banners a while back. Apparently a lot of people became EvilTaxi for some reason.

Malcolm X had the same problem in his Spike Lee film.

I'm still voting for Naruto/"surprise me." And, knowing Howdy, he'll probably deliver nicely.

Janus
01-23-2009, 07:35 PM
You know, for all these outlandish theories I don't think I've ever seen a Naruto/Shizune in fanfiction. Couple of doujin works sure, but never an actual fic.

Kalas
01-23-2009, 07:39 PM
You know, for all these outlandish theories I don't think I've ever seen a Naruto/Shizune in fanfiction. Couple of doujin works sure, but never an actual fic.

Dammit Janus, ruining our fun with your 'sensible' theories. That said I'd enjoy the pairing, she makes a nice contrast with Naruto.

Ksai
01-23-2009, 08:33 PM
The strangest pairing I've ever seen was Naruto vs his shadow clone under Sexy tech. The unusual part was that Naruto made a mistake and put too much chackra in it. So the clone appeared 5 times bigger then the original.

Now try and picture a small original "digging" his way through a giant sexy babe...

sincostan
01-23-2009, 08:37 PM
I think I've read some really bad smut. I believe it's like Naruto/Sakura/Shizune or Naruto/Tsunade/Shizune. Kinda sad when I think about it. It's like she's not enough of a character on her own that she gets lumped with the other medic-nin pairing. =D

Aekiel
01-23-2009, 09:08 PM
Malcolm X had the same problem in his Spike Lee film.

I'm still voting for Naruto/"surprise me." And, knowing Howdy, he'll probably deliver nicely.

You know, Naruto itself is bad enough as a manga (though I still religiously follow it >_>), but to see a physicist reading Naruto fanfiction is something I never thought I'd actually see.

It's like seeing hamsters roaming around on the Moon or a pic of Oz that is not fat... It's just not something I'd ever consciously thought about.

Otherwise I'm just going to give a generic Update Soon! message.

Perspicacity
01-23-2009, 09:27 PM
You know, Naruto itself is bad enough as a manga (though I still religiously follow it >_>), but to see a physicist reading Naruto fanfiction is something I never thought I'd actually see.

Busted. Guilty pleasures are guilty.

I don't read smut. Instead, I read a bit of Naruto ff, but only the good stuff (which, admittedly, is somewhat harder to find than in the HP fandom).

I picked it up after someone gifted my son with one of the Naruto games for his Wii. A week later, an early reader of MILL said, "You gave Harry Naruto powers!" I took this as a sign from the Fates that I should read a bit of the stuff. I read the wiki, speed-read the first hundred or so manga, then dove into LT's and S'TarKan's fics and hit up a bunch of others that I saw rec'd here. (Then I lost a bet and actually tried to write one of my own; being new to the fandom, I'm sure it's cliché-ridden tripe--I won't even bother linking to it).

For me, reading manga or anime is a lot like reading fantasy or bad sci-fi: you turn off the critical brain and try to read for fun. I actually have a harder time with anything but the hardest of science fiction or ultra-futuristic dystopia, since the shit-filter runs full bore throughout. Fantasy--and Naruto is basically ninja fantasy--doesn't even try to be realistic, so it's easier to suspend disbelief than in, say, Heinlein's space operas.

My apologies to Howdy for the thread hijack.

Poytin
01-24-2009, 04:58 AM
You know, for all these outlandish theories I don't think I've ever seen a Naruto/Shizune in fanfiction. Couple of doujin works sure, but never an actual fic.

I've been able to find exactly one where Shizune was the only love interest.

Kalas
01-24-2009, 11:40 AM
I've been able to find exactly one where Shizune was the only love interest.

Actual Shizune or self-insert OC 'Shizune'?

EDIT: Wow. What an extreme waste of my 600th post. Anywho a couple of questions for Howdy. Spiritual energy shows intent to the eyes of the Rin'negan, would a strong enough intent linger for lack of a better word? I would think there would be a lot more intent in say the Fourth's demon seal then Naruto using the Grand Fireball.

Also Genjutsu, it requires active manipulation, a Real-Time jutsu if you will. Would Naruto be able to see the constant intent? And if he could would that help him break the Genjutsu or merely serve to reinforce the 'reality' of what he's seeing?

Finally, props to you for correct usage of the Uchiha's Grand Fireball technique. Most writers either think of it as a basic fire technique or forget the special meaning it had within the Uchiha clan.

LT2000
01-24-2009, 02:23 PM
Alright, this is about enough threadjack. Get the discussion back onto the story and off of pairings. Someone can make an alternate thread for said debate if desired.

GiantMonkeyMan
01-24-2009, 09:48 PM
Hey Howdy, awesome fic so far and I'm eagerly awaiting an update. To be honest I think he should have just kept the orange jumpsuit. I hate it, you hate it, everyone hates it, but no-one expects a ninja wearing orange to be as hardcore as Naruto could be. It's like poisonous tree-frogs being bright blue or the Bush Viper being bright green; a symbol of danger. Meh, not that bothered either way though, I've just read too many fics with Naruto doing the old 'shopping-trip' cliche that got tired in Harry Potter fics.

Anyway, I guess you've read the new chapter of the manga and in http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/432/12/ it is almost as if Pain can see Sage-Chakra as he comments on how much power Naruto lost with that technique... does that ruin your plans, have you interpreted it in another way or have you planned to incorporate this in some way? Just a few questions...

Howdy
01-24-2009, 11:02 PM
Hey Howdy, awesome fic so far and I'm eagerly awaiting an update. To be honest I think he should have just kept the orange jumpsuit. I hate it, you hate it, everyone hates it, but no-one expects a ninja wearing orange to be as hardcore as Naruto could be. It's like poisonous tree-frogs being bright blue or the Bush Viper being bright green; a symbol of danger. Meh, not that bothered either way though, I've just read too many fics with Naruto doing the old 'shopping-trip' cliche that got tired in Harry Potter fics.

Anyway, I guess you've read the new chapter of the manga and in http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/432/12/ it is almost as if Pain can see Sage-Chakra as he comments on how much power Naruto lost with that technique... does that ruin your plans, have you interpreted it in another way or have you planned to incorporate this in some way? Just a few questions...

First off, we know that he can't see natural energy, since he wasn't able to determine how Naruto was able to attack Hungry Ghost.

This chapter simply shows us that Pain can see chakra or some other measure of power, which is something that we already really knew since he observed the Konoha barrier.

If anything, I think this helps my description of the Rinnegan since I have Naruto seeing the energy within others as well.

Tezcatlipoca
01-25-2009, 03:16 PM
At what speed to you think naruto be able to advance his shinobi skills since he more focus now and how much a improvement should be show during chunnin exams?

Aekiel
01-25-2009, 09:04 PM
At what speed to you think naruto be able to advance his shinobi skills since he more focus now and how much a improvement should be show during chunnin exams?

If he can learn/improve upon a jutsu just by seeing it performed once that would mean he would become exponentially stronger after every successful battle, or at least have an exponentially larger jutsu library. That would make a world of difference in the Chuunin Exams, and if Howdy goes that route, would make identifying Orochimaru as the odd one out child's play given his ability to see spiritual energy that may not belong to the body Oro is using.

aledeth
01-26-2009, 03:02 AM
If he can learn/improve upon a jutsu just by seeing it performed once that would mean he would become exponentially stronger after every successful battle, or at least have an exponentially larger jutsu library. That would make a world of difference in the Chuunin Exams, and if Howdy goes that route, would make identifying Orochimaru as the odd one out child's play given his ability to see spiritual energy that may not belong to the body Oro is using.

Ehh... I doubt that he would learn so much from battles as you think. Naruto was only able to use the Grand Fireball because Sasuke demonstrated the Jutsu right in front of him when Naruto was able to put all his concentration on Sasuke. Remembering the proper handseal sequence on a Jutsu someone else is using in the middle of a battle, especially if it's being used on Naruto, is probably something that is beyond him right now, and would likely get him seriously injured/killed if he tried.

Exceptions exist of course, like Zabuza when he first uses his concealing mist thingy.

As for the Orochimaru thing, if things work that way it may tip Naruto off that there's something different about Oro, but I there's not much that he could, or would do with that info. There's no suspicion of Orochimaru till everyone is already into the Forest, and if/when he attacks Team 7, the only thing that Naruto could do is warn the team that Oro is possibly more dangerous than he looks, but Oro demonstrates that quite easily on his own.

Lhefriel_Medies
01-26-2009, 03:29 AM
After going back and rereading it, I have another question, although one considerably less elaborate. Did Naruto really not see the Demon Brothers in the puddle? Or did he receive signs that he just ignored? Since if that's the case, there seem to be some fairly serious limitations to the Rin'negan; such as the case with Orochimaru being discussed at the moment, for instance.

Can be discussed, or does this spoil too much?

<standard update soon clause>. The anticipation is killing me. :/.

Tezcatlipoca
01-26-2009, 02:16 PM
For expanding his justu how come the third hokage can not give him any extra help or does he not want to draw any attention to him?

Howdy
01-26-2009, 02:58 PM
How exactly when naruto eyes changes did he kill mizuki? For expanding his justu how come the third hokage can not give him any extra help or does he not want to draw any attention to him?

First off, I don't want to answer any questions that might spoil the story for everyone, which is why I haven't replied to many of your queries.

Mizuki died in the same way that the Iwa chuunin died against Nagato. It was a strong reaction to the awakening of the Rinnegan bloodline.

Dethklok
01-26-2009, 05:44 PM
How soon is WW and HotH to being updated? Today, tommorrow?

And 'strong reaction to the awakening of the Rinnegan bloodline'? At the time Naruto killed Mizuki and even now, with his new outfit which I'm still wary of, and the fact that he has a powerful fire jutsu under his belt, he's still underpowered compared to the heavy hitters, and to Pain especially.

What does this 'strong reaction' mean, really? if the Rinnegan can percieve the 'spirit', as in intent, as in the composition of a jutsu, can it also affect the spirit, as in death?

Is Human Realm's ability to remove the soul of an opponent a stronger/refined version of a Rinnegan spiritual attack?

As far as the outfit for Naruto goes, I agree with someone who posted earlier that keeping the orange jumpsuit might actually have been a strategic benefit as very few people, if any, would take a ninja wearing orange seriously, right up until the point when he opened a can of Rinnegan whoopass on you. If in a future chapter you could fully describe Naruto's appearance, because right now, the orange tassels which are supposed to be nine tails are throwing me off.

Or...

I suppose the new look would be more palatable if you has Naruto at least aesthetically looking/dressing like Killer Bee, because I can live with that. Killer Bee is cool.

Cxjenious
01-26-2009, 05:48 PM
Is Human Realm's ability to remove the soul of an opponent a stronger/refined version of a Rinnegan spiritual attack?

That would be telling.

Gravity
01-27-2009, 05:41 AM
Killer Bee is cool.

I concur

-filler-

Zield
01-30-2009, 07:30 PM
Is the update anywhere in site?

Kensington
01-30-2009, 08:48 PM
*sight

FFS, he'll publish when he's ready. If you're impatient, give Howdy some positive reinforcement like "Great story! Can't wait for the next installment."

It's conveying the same thing, but has a much more pleasant presentation to Howdy.

P.S. Great Story. Can't wait for the next installment.

Ksai
01-30-2009, 10:06 PM
Great Story. Can't wait for the next instalment.


PS
Howdy. Post a sneak peak or something. I don't know what happened to NAruto fandom, but almost non of my favourite fics have been updated in January. You are teh last hope.

Rehio
01-30-2009, 10:29 PM
Great installment. Can't wait for the next story.

Oh wait...

Howdy
01-30-2009, 10:38 PM
Great installment. Can't wait for the next story.

Wut?

I don't get it.

I've been a little caught up in the process of interviewing for a new job, which I just got today. I won't say when the next chapter will be out for sure, but it most likely will happen within the next week or so.

Don't panic, yes?

Lokesin
01-31-2009, 04:20 AM
Never, ever, ever let go of your towel.

Dethklok
01-31-2009, 09:38 AM
Congratulations.

I also started a new job recently. It's tough getting started, but once you're in, making money, it's golden.

That said, is both HotH and WW updating, or only one of them?

Howdy
01-31-2009, 11:30 AM
Congratulations.

I also started a new job recently. It's tough getting started, but once you're in, making money, it's golden.

That said, is both HotH and WW updating, or only one of them?

I think I'm going to be alternating updates, so WW is next, then HotH, then WW and so on.

Dark Syaoran
02-03-2009, 11:17 PM
Even though I enjoyed reading this story, somewhat, a lot of things made me cringe.

One was the typical 'mask' that Naruto wore during his childhood. I don't really have to explain this one. It's overused and really, makes no sense half the time. It also doesn't explain why Naruto is suddenly so much smarter and more observant. He isn't a genius in this by any means, thankfully, or that might have killed the story right there.

I felt some of the dialogue was incredably awkward at times, especially in that scene where Naruto asks Team 8 if they'd like to go to lunch. How Ino basically says he is a joke and he agrees with this really lame line about how he's going to change. It just felt really cheesy.

Super new outfit. Didn't really bother me too much until the tail-rope thing. Though ninja in Naruto do have a habit of dressing like that, I thought it was a bit early. Maybe when he was a more established ninja, he could of worn something defining of his character like the 9 'rope-tails'.

Still, you write well enough to make it enjoyable.

Most of the time, Naruto with a bloodline annoys the piss out of me, but here, I kinda liked it. Probably because I haven't run across many stories with Naruto having the Rin'negan. I'm sure in the next month or so, the fandom is going to over-flow with them, if it hasn't already.

Pretty cool how he reads techniques, as well. Simple, easy to understand and workable. It's going to be hard to keep his power in check, though, with how he can suss out a technique in a few minutes.

Kalas
02-05-2009, 07:15 PM
One was the typical 'mask' that Naruto wore during his childhood. I don't really have to explain this one. It's overused and really, makes no sense half the time. It also doesn't explain why Naruto is suddenly so much smarter and more observant. He isn't a genius in this by any means, thankfully, or that might have killed the story right there.

I usually read Naruto's intelligence bump to be more of 'effectively using what he's got' as opposed to an actual increase in intelligence. There is also the fact that the spiritual energy of Naruto has also been refered to as mental energy (though that could just be translation PC) maybe the Rin'negan has some elements of mental stimulus and development? Thoughts Howdy?

Sol
02-05-2009, 08:02 PM
Syao has a valid point. Observation and well reasoned thought are habits more than anything. You can't flick a switch and suddenly shift your mental procresses immediately. It's a gradual process, widening perception. I can see where Naruto is going to be vastly more focused with his new toy than he would be otherwise, but having him change immediately in all situations is a bit much short of a life changing epiphany, which I suppose the Rinnegan could count as.

Howdy
02-05-2009, 09:51 PM
First thing:

This story is based off of two separate divergences from canon. First is that he awakens the Rinnegan. Second is that he decides not to forgive the villagers' mistaken opinions and actions made towards him. These two things are independent and frankly either could be a legitimate basis for a plot divergence story.

Second thing:

Canon Naruto isn't ignorant of the attitudes of the villagers towards him. He's not stupid either. He just persists with his "I'll prove to everyone how great I am and ignore the shit they give me" attitude. I'm trying my best not to make my Naruto a sudden genius, but to imply that canon Naruto isn't capable of catching on and to reacting to the attitudes of those around him is simply wrong.

Kishimoto likes to make Naruto seem retarded so that he can explain things to his audience, but Naruto also has a number of periods of insight and wisdom that are uncanny for a ninja his age. Just because he plays an idiot doesn't mean he isn't capable of making tough decisions or understanding others.

Naruto is not mentally handicapped in any way.

Let me say that again, so that you understand.

Naruto is not mentally handicapped in any way.

Such a notion is purely fiction. My Naruto isn't any different from his canon self, other than the fact that he doesn't feel he needs to keep up a happy facade, which he does do for the most part in canon. Just look at how he interacts with his peers even after his meeting with Orochimaru or his failure with the Sound Five.

Naruto never, never shares his doubts and fears with others in canon. The fact that these doubts exist is obvious.

In other words, the "mask" that is oh so popular in fanfiction is indeed canon to some extent.

As far as Wild World goes, I made a conscious decision not to dwell on Naruto's change of mindset for long, since I find it incredibly boring. It's one of the reasons why Tempered In Water isn't a 5 star story in my book, regardless of what everyone else thinks.

My Naruto isn't meant to be a sudden genius, but he is meant to be a lot more circumspect about his actions since he's now adopted a "what's best for me?" attitude. He's thrown away his need to find approval in others.

Does that mean he's a sudden jackass who doesn't think what anyone thinks of him? Of course not.

He's still capable of normal social interactions, and in fact he likes them. They make him happy, just as they make most people happy.


As far as the "spiritual energy" is concerned, I honestly don't believe the shit that Iruka spewed in canon about wisdom and brainpower attributing to that energy. In my mind, it's more about willpower. I mean teenagers like Naruto and Sasuke can become some of the strongest ninja in the world, so wisdom and experience can't be a big part of that power, now can it?


As far as updating goes, I have the next chapter planned out. However, right now I'm starting a new job and am taking the Health and Life Insurance Exam tomorrow, hence the long delay. I can't promise when the next chapter will come out, but I'll probably do it in the next two weeks.

Evan Tide
02-05-2009, 10:43 PM
First thing:

As far as updating goes, I have the next chapter planned out. However, right now I'm starting a new job and am taking the Health and Life Insurance Exam tomorrow, hence the long delay. I can't promise when the next chapter will come out, but I'll probably do it in the next two weeks.

Good luck on the exam.

Dark Syaoran
02-07-2009, 11:43 PM
Observation and well reasoned thought are habits more than anything. You can't flick a switch and suddenly shift your mental procresses immediately. It's a gradual process, widening perception. This basically sums up what I meant, in less words.
Canon Naruto isn't ignorant of the attitudes of the villagers towards him. I don't think I mentioned anything about his ignorance or lack-there-of towards the villagers treatment.

And being a little dimwitted isn't being mentally handicapped. Sure, I like to call him retarded - though I didn't in my post - but he isn't that stupid. But he is stupid. And gaining a little insight isn't going to change that fact straight away.

It felt like the light-switch that Sol mentioned.
Naruto never, never shares his doubts and fears with others in canon. Naruto sharing his doubts and fears is fine. Naruto sharing his doubts and fears with classmates whom he never really got along with great before that scene felt unreal. He was probably a little closer to Shikamaru and Chouji than he was with Ino, but he wasn't even that chummy with those two to begin with. I could see him sharing doubts with Iruka, maybe Sandaime. Maybe.

But Shikamaru and Chouji? With Ino right there? Not at this point in time.
As far as Wild World goes, I made a conscious decision not to dwell on Naruto's change of mindset for long, since I find it incredibly boring. There is a middle area that can be reached, with just enough dwelling so it is neither rushed nor boringly drawn out.

In this story, it felt rushed. In Tempered with Water, it was drawn out so much it did get very trying at times. It doesn't have the best re-reading value, that story.

Other than that... I look forward to the next chapter.

whateveritis12
02-25-2009, 04:27 PM
Any news Howdy on either this or Houses?

Kalas
02-25-2009, 05:58 PM
As far as updating goes, I have the next chapter planned out. However, right now I'm starting a new job and am taking the Health and Life Insurance Exam tomorrow, hence the long delay. I can't promise when the next chapter will come out, but I'll probably do it in the next two weeks.

Relax man. if it's coming this week it'll at least be Friday.

Tezcatlipoca
03-01-2009, 12:03 AM
Since Naruto seem to have figured out technique of shadow clone earlier on how fast realistically could he improve his skill level?

Grubdubdub
03-01-2009, 09:04 AM
Since Naruto seem to have figured out technique of shadow clone earlier on how fast realistically could he improve his skill level?

I never really understood this. Unless each clone practices a different technique, why would it help him? Each clone would make the same mistakes, so if anything it will hurt him as the mistakes will be engraved in his mind.

Lokesin
03-01-2009, 10:08 AM
I suppose it could be said that you'd have the clones focusing on separate aspects of the technique.

Like, say, one focuses on hand-seal speed, another focuses on chakra output, a third focuses on finding it's range, etc etc.

Still a good point, though.

Bikiluf
03-01-2009, 10:18 AM
Obviously they don't make the same mistakes, how else would you explain some clones cutting the leaf earlier than others in cannon?? I think it just makes them compete with eachother so that they try harder or something. And also, you learn from your mistakes right? If Naruto IS an idiot he would need to make the same mistake a thousand times to learn from it. Makes sense right?

Grubdubdub
03-01-2009, 10:18 AM
I suppose it could be said that you'd have the clones focusing on separate aspects of the technique.

Like, say, one focuses on hand-seal speed, another focuses on chakra output, a third focuses on finding it's range, etc etc.

Still a good point, though.

I thought about that, but it still doesn't make sense because the fastest way to learn is to combine them all. Maybe a clone practicing hand-seals will speed things up a bit, but months? Come on...

slasheh
03-01-2009, 10:36 AM
actually the logical argument is sound to some extent.
Take the tree exercise, no two trees are the same, the bark will have different texture, the angle will be different etc. All those small differences will mean that their experience is subtly different, meaning that he will learn something from combining it.

The cutting leaf exercise is a rather bad example on the other hand, unless he uses different kind of leafs, since the important parameters (thickness and texture) of the leafs would be close.

Another factor is that multiple clones mean multitasking. You can send two to practice X, two to practice Y etc. etc. etc. etc. which with the amount of clones he uses in Canon would mean that he can basically spend a week practicing a single skill, but at the same time his clones could practice twenty other skills during the same week.

So in closing, i don't think you can speed through years of training with shadow clones and i dislike fics where that happens, but what you CAN do is practice everything at the same time, so you can be a well rounded person instead of a one trick pony

Grubdubdub
03-01-2009, 10:45 AM
actually the logical argument is sound to some extent.
Take the tree exercise, no two trees are the same, the bark will have different texture, the angle will be different etc. All those small differences will mean that their experience is subtly different, meaning that he will learn something from combining it.


The trick in the tree exercise is using the correct amount of chakra into the legs. The tree has little to do with it. Practicing this exercise with clones might help with walking on the tree with low(er) amount of chakra, but it won't give you, as I see it, any actual skills.


Another factor is that multiple clones mean multitasking. You can send two to practice X, two to practice Y etc. etc. etc. etc. which with the amount of clones he uses in Canon would mean that he can basically spend a week practicing a single skill, but at the same time his clones could practice twenty other skills during the same week.


I'm pretty new to Naruto, but as far as I know, once you mastered a technique you don't need to practice it anymore. If that's the case, than the clones will help him in a signifact way only if he finds a lot of things to practice every week, which I doubt a small boy with no resources and outside help can do.

Necrule Paen
03-01-2009, 11:05 AM
Multiple clones work because whenever you start out doing something, you have a probability although a small one to do it right the first time. When you try a second time your odds of getting it right slightly improves. Eventually, after an arbituary amount of attempts, you do it right and from then on odds of getting it right each successive try improves drastically as you repeat whatever actions involved in getting the desired result. As time goes on your chances of success near certainty, as you figure out everything you need to do in order to be successful at whatever you were doing.

Therefore, when Naruto has twenty clones working on a technique, he has twenty opportunities for success at every attempt. That speeds up the process a huge amount and he is able to do years amount of trial and error in a shorter amount of time.

Fimbulvintr
03-01-2009, 11:46 AM
I never really understood this. Unless each clone practices a different technique, why would it help him? Each clone would make the same mistakes, so if anything it will hurt him as the mistakes will be engraved in his mind.You assume that somehow, each and every single one of Naruto's clones will do something in a completely identical way. That's an utterly absurd assumption, it's like telling someone to perform a task repeatedly, and believing that each repetition will be identical to all the previous ones.

There will always be subtle differences in the way that each clone performs a certain exercise. It could be due to the differences in a clone's position relative to the others, the air pressure being slightly off for some clones rather than others, and a million different other things. It's like one of those "a butterfly flutters its wings and a hurricane...." thingies. You cannot predict what and how certain factors will influence certain decisions.

People are not machines, they don't have enough precision to do things exactly the same over and over again. Especially not in this case, where there are so many external environmental differences to account for with regards to each single clone, that's not even considering how one clone may differ from the others. We've never really gotten any details on how the Shadow Clone really works, whether or not the clones may exhibit different personality traits of the creator.

slasheh
03-01-2009, 11:52 AM
The trick in the tree exercise is using the correct amount of chakra into the legs. The tree has little to do with it. Practicing this exercise with clones might help with walking on the tree with low(er) amount of chakra, but it won't give you, as I see it, any actual skills.



I'm pretty new to Naruto, but as far as I know, once you mastered a technique you don't need to practice it anymore. If that's the case, than the clones will help him in a signifact way only if he finds a lot of things to practice every week, which I doubt a small boy with no resources and outside help can do.

Let's stick to physics for the first example:
you use X chakra to stick a surface at angle Y with a friction coefficient of Z to hold up your mass (which obviously stays the same).

The goal of the exercise is finding out how much of X you need and then to practice until you send that precise amount out each and every time.

So if you only practiced on a single tree at some point you'd be able to do that specific amount without even thinking of it.

On the other hand, if you spread your practice around 10 trees you will learn to deal with the different factors Y and Z but it will take you significantly longer. Meaning Naruto with his insane shadow skillz will improve his control faster because his clones each learn to use a different amount, therefor spreading his control over a larger area.


For the second point you raised i guess that is like any other skill. How long does it take someone to learn to make a single Golf Shot? Now compare his Golf shot to one done by Tiger Woods.
One is an amateur the other is a pro who has practiced that precise swing for hours and hours on end.
To put it into Naruto terms, he will learn to do the Seals faster, he will learn how the fireball flows, what he must do to send it faster or slower, how to aim etc. etc. etc. etc.

Sure he might be able to throw a fireball (or windblade or whatever) once he has learned it, but there is a rather large area of improvement between being able to do something and having fully mastered an ability.

Necrule Paen
03-01-2009, 12:17 PM
nvm, I tired.

Grubdubdub
03-01-2009, 01:25 PM
Therefore, when Naruto has twenty clones working on a technique, he has twenty opportunities for success at every attempt. That speeds up the process a huge amount and he is able to do years amount of trial and error in a shorter amount of time.

Why would a clone act differently than an other clone? I understand why they would attack differently -them being in different places and the need of teamwork will change their thought process- but why would they do the technique any differently than an other clone?

Fimbulvintr
03-01-2009, 01:53 PM
Why would a clone act differently than an other clone? I understand why they would attack differently -them being in different places and the need of teamwork will change their thought process- but why would they do the technique any differently than an other clone?You just answered your own question. How do the clones know that they're in a different position? How do they know that teamwork is required and how do they each know their own places in the overall plan?

The answer is observation. The clones can think for themselves. All they have to do is look around them, watch what the others or the original is doing, and then it's up to them to decide how to do whatever it is a little differently. From that point on, the clone's ability to think for itself comes into play, and with the unique external stimuli each clone receives, its thought process also becomes unique, no matter how physically identical the clones may be. Which leads back to my original argument a few posts earlier.

Of course, for certain exercises, there's really no difference. Such as when Naruto was trying cut leaves with wind chakra. There's really only so many ways to channel wind and cut a leaf. The main purpose of the clones in that particular exercise was to gain experience, to give Naruto the memories and experience of channeling wind chakra thousands of times, not to show him how many different places a leaf could be cut.

GiantMonkeyMan
03-01-2009, 01:59 PM
I had this conversation on a different forum. I likened it to spending a hundred days doing the same thing over and over again without the memories of previous days to aid with natural improvement. There would be some variation, but without the memories of previous days you, on average, only progress as far as the previous day in your training. By the end of the hundred days, even if you gained all hundred days' worth of memories, you wouldn't have improved any more than that. Unfortunately, that is apparently wrong.

The basic consensus is that things like elemental chakra manipulation can only be improved upon via repeated trials, like a computer game's XP levelling up. Basically, Kishimoto is an idiot who didn't think things through. There's no point in really trying to argue for or against how the technique works because it shouldn't yet we are given canon evidence that it does.

slasheh
03-01-2009, 02:44 PM
I'll refer you to my earlier posts....
As i tried to make clear yes Kishimoto didn't think things through, but there ARE hundreds of ways to make use of extra time (that's basically what shadow clone training is) to improve your skills as a ninja. As soon as you change any single variable the experience of doing whatever he is practicing changes as well, meaning he will have gained at least some other knowledge.

And YES i agree that simply sending 500 clones to climb trees will not mean that you will have spent 500 days climbing trees, the experience will more likely mean something like 200 days total since inevitably SOME parts of their experience will be the exact same thing.

To get back to the earlier point have you ever tried to learn some kind of manual skill which is highly delicate? (e.g. Golf you'd be surprised how much difference a minute hook on the swing means for the way the fucking ball flies). If you did you'll notice that it will take you at LEAST 100 tries before you produce the first reasonable attempt. But once you have that first experience the improvements come notably faster, and you will find at many many many small things that together make a better whole (that finger a bit higher, left foot two degrees to the right, back straighter etc.etc.etc.). If you try to do this yourselve than it WILL take ages to become anywhere close to good, whereas if you had a hundred copies who could each practice and try, chances are they'd find at least 20 individual improvements compared to the single one you'd find yourselve.

(edit):
@Grubdudub

Try to do the exact same thing twenty times in a row. The more complicated it gets the harder it is do it. A very small outside influence (sudden noise from the guy sitting/standing next to you) will most likely mean you will find an entirely new way to screw up. So summa summarum no the 200 clones will not do the exact same thing, they will be influenced by many small things to make many many many different things, even while trying to do the same thing.

Cxjenious
03-01-2009, 02:47 PM
It's not about improving; it's about learning what not to do, so the next time you have more chance of doing the right thing.

Grubdubdub
03-01-2009, 03:15 PM
(edit):
@Grubdudub

Try to do the exact same thing twenty times in a row.

They're influenced by almost identical sets of environments. I believe that even if the slight difference will make me move slightly more to the left, it won't matter in any significant way. I used to do judo and one of the exercises is to do the exact thing over and over hundreds. The thing is, for the exercise to be affective, you need to do it perfectly or you'll risk driving the mistake into your reflexes. If you're mistakes are not pointed out to you or are fairly obvious, you won't get anything out of it. To mindlessly do the same thing thousands of times is like 1000X0 - at best.

Narion
03-01-2009, 05:17 PM
What happens here is that no reflexes are formed unless they're all doing it wrong in the same way. If anything, this sort of method is superior to doing it normally because it actually prevents you from forming reflexive actions until the point where you've got it down enough that there's very little variation in the exercise - in other words, the point that it's nearly perfect.

Actually, with how so many of the ninja abilities are supposed to work, I wonder if any ninja has reflexive actions of any sort. I sort of suspect that one of the ideas driving the Naruto-verse is that the better the ninja, the fewer reflexive actions he'll have, and the more of his actions will be carefully considered and deliberately executed.

In particular, since almost all ninja abilities are chakra-dependent, and chakra is half dependent on a mental component, I suspect that it might not even be possible to have a reflexive action that involves chakra, except perhaps to reject foreign chakra.

Just a (fairly spontaneous) thought.

Narion

slasheh
03-01-2009, 05:45 PM
i don't have extensive experience with martial arts (military basic is all i have in that area) but what you have said about reflexes is true obviously, but we are talking about two vastly different things here.
We are neither talking about muscle memory (obviously it won't help at all to have a clone do situps...) nor are we talking about actual fighting experience, both of which are areas where reflexes are important.
We are talking about practicing and learning specific skills which sometimes have something to do with your body (tajitsu, handseals etc.) but mostly which rely on a mental component (chakra and everything truly chakra based).
THOSE areas and anything knowledge related is where you can improve yourselve with Shadow clones.

Regarding the enviroment no, because as soon as one clone is influenced to make a gruesome mistake he will start a chain reaction of different amounts of influence.

anyway, enough about this discussion, if you don't agree with me (and the others) fine, let's agree to disagree because frankly it's a fictional universe and no amount of discussion can convey the rules of it to us.

Ps: Summed up in one sentence our difference is that i subscribe to the chaos theory and you don't ;)

Grubdubdub
03-01-2009, 05:54 PM
We are neither talking about muscle memory (obviously it won't help at all to have a clone do situps...) nor are we talking about actual fighting experience, both of which are areas where reflexes are important.
We are talking about practicing and learning specific skills which sometimes have something to do with your body (tajitsu, handseals etc.) but mostly which rely on a mental component (chakra and everything truly chakra based).

Before I'll shut up and wait for an update, I'll just say that the brain memory of an action can be equal or more important compared to muscle memory. A super-ninja with amnesia won't be half as good as he was before, despite what the movies say.

SmileOfTheKill
03-01-2009, 08:12 PM
Where is that amazing one-shot about how Naruto remembers the clones actions including death?
That is the thing I hate about this stupid clone power. It is used as instant and cheap training.
Hell, everyone would be doing this if they could.

Sferics
03-01-2009, 09:02 PM
Where is that amazing one-shot about how Naruto remembers the clones actions including death?
That is the thing I hate about this stupid clone power. It is used as instant and cheap training.
Hell, everyone would be doing this if they could.

http://www.fanfiction.net/s/3118898/1/

sincostan
03-02-2009, 12:44 AM
There's another one about ninjas having to relive life for each clone they make, going back to the time te clone was made. Since Naruto's made more clones than them all put together... The premise is good. The pairing is done in a lame way and the story loses some of its oomph.

SmileOfTheKill
03-02-2009, 01:42 AM
http://www.fanfiction.net/s/3118898/1/

Thank you very much.
Amazing one-shot and people on this forum should read it if they have not.
This shows exactly why this jutsu is forbidden if it gives back memory's.

There's another one about ninjas having to relive life for each clone they make, going back to the time te clone was made. Since Naruto's made more clones than them all put together... The premise is good. The pairing is done in a lame way and the story loses some of its oomph.

I've read that one. It was a massive meh. Nothing that great but I think we have all read worse.
However the plot is bad since people would be super different and insane if the groundhogs day went in effect that much. Then add if people relive clones for each they make, everyone would do that.

sincostan
03-02-2009, 05:06 AM
Everyone does go back, and Naruto's lived many different lives, but the shadow clone is not used that much, and the whole idea is that Naruto has outlived everyone else's usage.

Tezcatlipoca
03-03-2009, 02:11 AM
Question about naruto rope belt is there anyway it could be used in combat to hurt a enemy?

Anstid
03-03-2009, 05:28 AM
Question about naruto rope belt is there anyway it could be used in combat to hurt a enemy? With it being bright orange it is going draw eye attention quickly could it be used some way to distracted the enemy.

Distracting? Why not just have Naruto hang his cock out and wiggle his hips a bit. It's a fucking orange belt, shit half the stuff shonen ninjas wear would be distracting as fuck if that mattered at all in the Narutoverse.

Dumb question is dumb.

Belgarion213
03-06-2009, 07:53 AM
Moronic answer is moronic. There are a lot of ways it COULD be used in combat including just threading something sharp like a razor or something on it and flick it at somebody's eye. It IS Orange so somebody might glance at it if you could unwrapped it and flick it fast enough. A plus is that you could actually do some damage, maybe not much but well SOMETHING.

Zarent
03-06-2009, 07:58 AM
Moronic answer is moronic. There are a lot of ways it COULD be used in combat including just threading something sharp like a razor or something on it and flick it at somebody's eye. It IS Orange so somebody might glance at it if you could unwrapped it and flick it fast enough. A plus is that you could actually do some damage, maybe not much but well SOMETHING.
Versus actually using, y'know, a kunai, or one of the regular Naruto weapons. Because obviously, it's more likely to hit because it is bright orange and has a limited rangeof movement, versus a traditional throwing weapon, which has unlimited range of movement and usability. And you still don't see people getting kills with that - because it's not fun for the reader.

tl;dr version:
"Hurr durr I'm goign 2 use an rope that is only there to look weird as a weapon so i can be ORIGNALZ"
Just give him a cool jutsu or something.

Lhefriel_Medies
03-06-2009, 06:59 PM
Versus actually using, y'know, a kunai, or one of the regular Naruto weapons. Because obviously, it's more likely to hit because it is bright orange and has a limited rangeof movement, versus a traditional throwing weapon, which has unlimited range of movement and usability. And you still don't see people getting kills with that - because it's not fun for the reader.

tl;dr version:
"Hurr durr I'm goign 2 use an rope that is only there to look weird as a weapon so i can be ORIGNALZ"
Just give him a cool jutsu or something.

Hypothetical situation. Let's say both actors have, for some reason, run out of kunai, because a kunai can only be used once, and carrying a large, easily accessible supply is impractical given their weight. Would you rather be the one with a rope, or the one fighting bare-handed? It isn't horribly rare, accepting that movies have some basis in reality, to see people using a jacket or something similar as a makeshift weapon for otherwise unarmed combat. While strapping a razor to a rope just to throw it is not the greatest of ideas, in a pinch, a rope could more effectively play the role of that jacket. If they're long enough, a whip is another possible application. A jutsu couldn't have the same effect, given that a slight delay is needed to make the hand signs and perform the jutsu, as opposed to ripping a tail out, which could be fatal in close quarters. Not only that, but using a jutsu to take out, say, a grunt would not be the greatest application of chakra. While Naruto doesn't exactly need to conserve, wasting energy isn't a great idea regardless of the circumstance.

Limited combat functionality? Sure. Absolutely none? I think that you stumbled slightly in your attempt at a biting response.

(And even if those scenes in movies are just bullshit, the scenario is reasonable enough to be believable regardless)

Zombie
03-06-2009, 07:27 PM
The whole Rope thing reminds me of the guy that wrote Puppet Master Nartuo, and how he obsessed on how sexy that jacket his Harry wore in his HP story was, and how badass it was, yet, I don't think Howdy has said anything about it, other than when someone suggested strapping a weapon onto it...

Lol, reading to much into something thats not likely to be mentioned again? Methinks so.

Hashasheen
03-07-2009, 06:56 AM
Hypothetical situation. Let's say both actors have, for some reason, run out of kunai, because a kunai can only be used once, and carrying a large, easily accessible supply is impractical given their weight.
Sealing scrolls?

Apothem
03-07-2009, 10:21 AM
Sealing scrolls?

Because that appears to be a common practice, having seen it, um...

Oh, wait, only one character bothers. Tenten, who is a weapon specialist.

LT2000
03-07-2009, 10:48 AM
Aye, having to get things out of a huge scroll would take way too much time and effort in a battle. Tenten is able to do so because she has an entire team of close combat (taijutsu) specialists to keep the enemy occupied. Naruto might not have that luxury (or just be in a situation where his teammates aren't around to help him).

Howdy
03-07-2009, 02:52 PM
Aye, having to get things out of a huge scroll would take way too much time and effort in a battle. Tenten is able to do so because she has an entire team of close combat (taijutsu) specialists to keep the enemy occupied. Naruto might not have that luxury (or just be in a situation where his teammates aren't around to help him).

Well it's been hinted a few times at least that pretty much every member of Akatsuki uses the type of hidden seals that Sasuke has on his wrists. They don't walk around with backpacks, obviously, yet we've seen them pull out all sorts of implements from nowhere.

Hidan had his stake, Itachi had his shuriken and kunai, Pain has his endless black rods, Sasori - well, that's an obvious one.

Hell, even Naruto has used a sealing scroll in two fights, first against Deidara and Sasori and then against Pain, even though he let Fukasaku do the unsealing.

Seals happen all the time off panel. That's really the only explanation for what we see every chapter.

Oh, and new chapter this week, I promise.

Torak
03-07-2009, 06:40 PM
Oh, and new chapter this week, I promise.

Bout time:awesome

Hashasheen
03-07-2009, 09:26 PM
Aye, having to get things out of a huge scroll would take way too much time and effort in a battle. Tenten is able to do so because she has an entire team of close combat (taijutsu) specialists to keep the enemy occupied. Naruto might not have that luxury (or just be in a situation where his teammates aren't around to help him).
He still has his Kage Bunshin to back him up on that.

.
.
.
.
And I'm just going to stop arguing.

Lhefriel_Medies
03-08-2009, 05:48 AM
He still has his Kage Bunshin to back him up on that.

.
.
.
.
And I'm just going to stop arguing.

I think that you would still have to concede that it's still an unnecessarily complicated procedure compared to just ripping something from your clothing. If sealing scrolls are going to be used, it seems as if it would have to be for something absolutely necessary, as it would require careful planning to find the window, and the time used would allow the opponent complete control for a few moments in an otherwise even situation. Kunai do not seem like a good reason for taking such a big risk. The ropes would still be faster and the argument stills stands that they would allow a much greater flexibility in combat if the situation called for it.

Although, I do agree that this does seem pointless, since the ropes will probably be never mentioned again.

Oh, and new chapter this week, I promise.

When you announce it, the wait just becomes even more painful. :(.

Hashasheen
03-08-2009, 07:23 AM
I think that you would still have to concede that it's still an unnecessarily complicated procedure compared to just ripping something from your clothing. If sealing scrolls are going to be used, it seems as if it would have to be for something absolutely necessary, as it would require careful planning to find the window, and the time used would allow the opponent complete control for a few moments in an otherwise even situation. Kunai do not seem like a good reason for taking such a big risk. why'd you think I said I'd stop argueing? :)

The ropes would still be faster and the argument stills stands that they would allow a much greater flexibility in combat if the situation called for it.

Although, I do agree that this does seem pointless, since the ropes will probably be never mentioned again. would be cool if they got used a whip or something though. :(

Aekiel
03-08-2009, 01:32 PM
How about, instead of a rope, you give him a cat o' nine tails instead :p. Fits the theme well enough and gives you a bit of room for comedy from the more perverted members of the village. 'Young, naive Naruto sets out to make a statement but ends up being branded even more of a deviant than he used to be' XD.

Makes for a good weapon too, if he learns to control it. Ropes just seem cliché (in a way) and pointless for all their intended message.

uriel
03-08-2009, 11:47 PM
I like how one sentence, from someone who isn't even the author, got everyone all riled up over some bits of rope that will most likely play no part whatsoever in this story. :)

whateveritis12
03-09-2009, 04:15 AM
^^

In fact, though I might be wrong, I think Howdy said something to that effect at some time. They are and forever will be just an accessorie to the same effect as Killer Bee's little tentacle things.

lanceavalon
03-15-2009, 08:10 PM
Well it's been hinted a few times at least that pretty much every member of Akatsuki uses the type of hidden seals that Sasuke has on his wrists. They don't walk around with backpacks, obviously, yet we've seen them pull out all sorts of implements from nowhere.

Hidan had his stake, Itachi had his shuriken and kunai, Pain has his endless black rods, Sasori - well, that's an obvious one.

Hell, even Naruto has used a sealing scroll in two fights, first against Deidara and Sasori and then against Pain, even though he let Fukasaku do the unsealing.

Seals happen all the time off panel. That's really the only explanation for what we see every chapter.

Oh, and new chapter this week, I promise.

LIAR!!! but seriously are you just waiting for betas?

Howdy
03-15-2009, 08:53 PM
LIAR!!! but seriously are you just waiting for betas?

No, I'm actually writing it right now.

For some reason this chapter doesn't really want to get written, even though quite a few important things happen in it.

I'm going to go ahead and say tentatively that it should be ready tomorrow night.

whateveritis12
03-19-2009, 04:04 PM
Have the recent chapters changed anything about how you view the Rinnegan? Most specifically the line about how the original guy could make a moon with the move Pain just did? Gotta think that all Rinnegan users can use at least the God realm's abilities.

Wildfeather
03-19-2009, 05:59 PM
From what I understand about Howdy's stance on how the rinnegan works, the fact that the new chapter came out doesn't really matter much. He probably won't ever have to retcon because of anything Nagato does, because those are mostly abilities he could have 'viewed' with the rinnegan, when a body was alive, then once it died, reproduce it, if it were bloodline or body specific. Howdy's rinnegan lets a user watch the 'spiritual' part of a technique, that which gives it shape and direction, so any jutsu that Pein uses won't really matter, because it isn't an innate ability of the rinnegan (assumably).

Aekiel
03-19-2009, 08:04 PM
From what I understand about Howdy's stance on how the rinnegan works, the fact that the new chapter came out doesn't really matter much. He probably won't ever have to retcon because of anything Nagato does, because those are mostly abilities he could have 'viewed' with the rinnegan, when a body was alive, then once it died, reproduce it, if it were bloodline or body specific. Howdy's rinnegan lets a user watch the 'spiritual' part of a technique, that which gives it shape and direction, so any jutsu that Pein uses won't really matter, because it isn't an innate ability of the rinnegan (assumably).

I would expect that Pein is merely copying the original Rikudo Sennin's abilities that are associated with him by legend but has sectioned them in to different bodies because of his own physical weakness. That would work perfectly well with Howdy's version of the Rin'negan because it just means that Pein and the Rikudo Sennin used the inbuilt ability of the Rin'negan to shape the jutsu in to the form they wanted, rather than it being a bloodline specific jutsu.

I imagine it would be like an Uchiha dividing the copying/prediction/Mangekyou-powers aspects of the Sharingan into different bodies but still retaining control of them because of the shared minds. The Rin'negan is obviously better at this since its abilities aren't tied down by being uncopyable from body to body... So maybe dividing Kakashi's thousand jutsu between bodies would be a more accurate comparison (an interesting idea there methinks).

I'm going off on a tangent again, but the point is in there. Somewhere.

stickybynature
03-23-2009, 06:01 PM
Hmm just a thought on clones.
There are many stories where they are used to power Naruto up fairly quickly, but I was thinking that it only makes sense for him to be creating one clone per area of study/training as they are all starting at the same point and will likely develop the same amount as each other (assuming they are dispelled at the same time).
So that would mean he only gets the benefits of having one clone no matter how many he assigns to a training exercise?
Or perhaps the more made the more they hinder him as he could develop a habit of doing things the wrong way from so much 'experience' of doing it wrong.

What do you guys think? And Howdy do you have any opinion on this relating to your fic?

Aekiel
03-23-2009, 08:11 PM
Hmm just a thought on clones.
There are many stories where they are used to power Naruto up fairly quickly, but I was thinking that it only makes sense for him to be creating one clone per area of study/training as they are all starting at the same point and will likely develop the same amount as each other (assuming they are dispelled at the same time).
So that would mean he only gets the benefits of having one clone no matter how many he assigns to a training exercise?
Or perhaps the more made the more they hinder him as he could develop a habit of doing things the wrong way from so much 'experience' of doing it wrong.

What do you guys think? And Howdy do you have any opinion on this relating to your fic?

You're completely missing the point here. The way clone training works is by all the clones doing subtly different things (centred around a single technique usually) so that when one does it wrong the destructive effects are mitigated and the other Narutos now know what not to do. Eventually, given time (and lessened by the number of clones), one of them will get it right just by dumb luck or random chance. When that one dispels all the other Narutos will know that it worked and can focus themselves on very slight variations of what the successful clone did.

The point is that all the clones do not do exactly the same thing. Even if they all start out absolutely identical in every way, shape and form when they start training not every one will have the same idea, and as time goes on the clones will start having their own ideas on what could work until success is achieved. It's effectively learning by trial and error on a massively compressed timescale.

stickybynature
03-23-2009, 08:32 PM
I see what you are saying, but I wasn't thinking in terms of him getting it wrong to start with, but improving on something he can already do. Unless he's trying to find another way to do the same technique, he is going to be doing it in a certain way, meaning there is no trial and error.
So maybe to start with many clones would help but after a point this may drop off. Please bare in mind i'm more trying to argue a reason why he can't master everything very quickly by using clones, for the sake of not making Naruto instantly powerful. Though this is probably getting off the point of the thread? ^^

Zield
03-25-2009, 01:19 AM
Any news on the update?

Lhefriel_Medies
04-23-2009, 08:43 PM
new chapter new chapter new chapter holy crap new chapter thank you howdy reading now

Howdy
04-23-2009, 09:57 PM
Okay.

Who hacked my FF.net account and posted this piece of crap?

Aekiel
04-23-2009, 10:58 PM
Howdy? I hate you... for that bloody cliffhanger. I'm going to assume that he's just found out about the Rin'negan and has connected the dots between him and it. Also, do we have to wait months for the next chapter or have you got some done already?

lanceavalon
04-23-2009, 11:23 PM
Oh yeah I remember this fic...

Anyway Naruto never threatened that fat bitch in the library I don't know how Naruto would get in trouble for something that as far as anyone with a brain is concerned was a joke.

Howdy
04-23-2009, 11:26 PM
Oh yeah I remember this fic...

Anyway Naruto never threatened that fat bitch in the library I don't know how Naruto would get in trouble for something that as far as anyone with a brain is concerned was a joke.

It's not that Naruto threatened her, it's that she perceived that she was threatened. It's why Naruto never actually gets punished when this sort of thing happens aside from a stern talking to from Sarutobi, who's sympathetic towards Naruto.

Howdy? I hate you... for that bloody cliffhanger. I'm going to assume that he's just found out about the Rin'negan and has connected the dots between him and it. Also, do we have to wait months for the next chapter or have you got some done already?

The next chapter is slated for 2010 right now.

See you then!

Torak
04-23-2009, 11:47 PM
Lol cliffhanger you bastard

Though my one problem with this chapter is it seems that Naruto is becoming too jaded to quick. Hell I was almost expecting him to go ranting on the Hokage. Besides that great chapter and update quick

Perspicacity
04-24-2009, 01:29 AM
The next chapter is slated for 2010 right now.

See you then!

You sure you don't just want to end it here? Seems a good place...

Thanks for the update. While light on the action, it was a very nice transition, doing much for development of the various characters. I like your Kakashi in particular in this story.

Howdy
04-24-2009, 01:42 AM
You sure you don't just want to end it here? Seems a good place...

Thanks for the update. While light on the action, it was a very nice transition, doing much for development of the various characters. I like your Kakashi in particular in this story.

I wanted my Kakashi to be a bit less (seemingly) indifferent than his canon portrayal. In my story Naruto is, in Kakashi's eyes, both much more talented and also much less stupid than his canon self. Of all of his students, Naruto is his favorite, despite his best efforts not to neglect the others.

Unlike Sasuke, Naruto in my story is actually personable. Kakashi relates to him as Yondaime's son and not "Yondaime's son who's nothing like him and that I have to teach."

Even if Naruto's personality is a bit darker at times, he's still a happy-go-lucky guy on the outside, and Kakashi appreciates that.

As far as Sasuke goes, I'm trying not to ruin his character while stepping up the whole rivalry thing that we see in canon. In the manga it starts in earnst in the Chuunin Exam, but Sasuke and Naruto have no real time to address it before Naruto returns from his mission with Jiraiya and they have their hospital fight.

Again, my Naruto is more of a threat to Sasuke than the canon version on top of being less inclined to sit back and take any efforts Sasuke makes towards demeaning him.

Sasuke and Naruto are true rivals and not simply teammates attempting to one up the other for bragging rights, and their relationship is deteriorating because of it.

whateveritis12
04-24-2009, 04:29 AM
So we can expect Naruto to defend himself and Sakura against Orochimaru (assuming you stick with canon) but won't go out of his way to protect Sasuke? Then after Naruto receives his vest he immediately gets transferred to a different team or goes with Jiraiya to get trained, am I right? Because I can hardly see this Naruto not becoming chunnin just based on his skills.

GiantMonkeyMan
04-24-2009, 04:47 AM
So we can expect Naruto to defend himself and Sakura against Orochimaru (assuming you stick with canon) but won't go out of his way to protect Sasuke? Then after Naruto receives his vest he immediately gets transferred to a different team or goes with Jiraiya to get trained, am I right? Because I can hardly see this Naruto not becoming chunnin just based on his skills.

It's not just about skill though or Sasuke would be promoted alongside him; Konoha Chuunin need to be able to work as a team. Plus Howdy's Naruto is a bitter jinchuuriki who dislikes a lot of the village and how they treat him. I can see Jiraiya training him but I doubt he'd be promoted without doing something drastic to improve his feeling for the village and their feelings towards him. You don't want higher ranking ninja to dislike the very village they work for after all.

lanceavalon
04-24-2009, 05:31 AM
I just thought of something, I can't see anyone who doesn't hate Naruto already getting to worked up over this if only because Anko most likely scares the SHIT out of a civie at least once a week and she is a Jounin.

GiantMonkeyMan
04-24-2009, 05:57 AM
I just thought of something, I can't see anyone who doesn't hate Naruto already getting to worked up over this if only because Anko most likely scares the SHIT out of a civie at least once a week and she is a Jounin.

Fanon. Anko is a Special Jounin (aka a Chuunin who is jounin level in a certain aspect, in her case assassination) who needed to freak-out some bratish genin into being frightened of her test. It's fanon that she is a sex-deprived insane person who enjoys the blood of innocents.

Robo Jesus
04-24-2009, 07:36 AM
It's not just about skill though or Sasuke would be promoted alongside him; Konoha Chuunin need to be able to work as a team. Plus Howdy's Naruto is a bitter jinchuuriki who dislikes a lot of the village and how they treat him. I can see Jiraiya training him but I doubt he'd be promoted without doing something drastic to improve his feeling for the village and their feelings towards him. You don't want higher ranking ninja to dislike the very village they work for after all.

The problem here is double-edged. Naruto's dislike stems from their inherent dislike and bias towards him, and he has already stated that he feels that they will overlook him for promotion specifically because he is Uzumaki Naruto, and not because of a lack of skill or incompetence on his part. Given this, he has a pretty valid reason to be cynical regarding the things they say compared to their actions.

Howdy
04-24-2009, 08:58 PM
I'd just like to say that Naruto is not getting spit on or beaten in the streets in this fic. Having said that, I've shown a few instances now in which he is discriminated against for who he - or more importantly, what - he is.

Naruto is not overtly antagonizing the civilians of Konoha, nor are the civilians generally blatant in their discrimination. The issue for Naruto is that, from time to time, civilians do take shots at him and he has no inclination to accept their misdeeds against him. He'll play on their fears, get a stern talking-to from Sarutobi, and move on.

Obviously though, things are coming to a head as Naruto becomes less and less tolerant of the people around him which in turn leads to more resentment and confrontation from the villagers. It's a vicious cycle.

I don't want to give the impression that Naruto is shunned and despised by everyone though. I hoped my scenes with Team 10 and at the ramen shop show that there are a fair number of people who actually like Naruto.

The point here is that despite not being universally despised, Naruto's situation is incredibly unpleasant for him.

He is not happy, and being a thirteen-year-old kid he lacks the foresight and patience to do anything to change his situation, hence Sarutobi's manipulations.

There are no mobs and pitchforks in this story.

blablablub
04-24-2009, 09:13 PM
Thank god for that.
I simply can't take anymore storys which start with, "he was running for his life on oct. 10, while a mob of 10-100,with pitchforks and fire, chased him in an ally to kill/beat/skin him".

Other then that I like this Naruto it's more "real" then his cannon self where he does nothing or we at least don't see him doing anything to the villagers.

Psychotic Cat
04-24-2009, 09:51 PM
Oh good, to be honest I kind of worry about the mental health of people who write fics where Naruto is repeatedly flayed alive and such... the way some of them write it makes me think they get off on it.

Robo Jesus
04-24-2009, 09:55 PM
Scene with the Sandaime was kinda lame. It's weird that ninjas are only manipulative when they want to trick Naruto, but never when it concerns anything else.

Naruto threathing the librarian was awesome. It's kinda rare to see him pretend to be Kyuubi to get what he wants.
Yeah... it looks like Naruto is gonna get tired of Konoha pretty quickly. The Hokage and Kakashi aren't helping at all.
I agree.

If things keep going like this, Naruto will likely pick his stuff and leave once ready to fend for himself.

Kakashi is handling poorly the whole situation with Sasuke growing ressentment toward Naruto. It wasn't sparring anymore, it was Sasuke releiving his frustration on Naruto. Kakashi should have taken him aside to give him a major scolding.

Instead, he took aside Naruto to give him a speach that can be sum as : "Play along with me and bend backward to Sasuke for the greater good for the team". Unfortunately, since the begining, the greater good for the team is suspiciously undiscernable to the greater good for Sasuke.

The true issue with team 7 is that efforts were requested from everyone except Sasuke. It is not teamwork.

As for the Hokage, he should really stop treating the situation as if Naruto was at fault. While he certainly can't execute the whole population for being dick, he could certainly try harder.

Copy/pasted part of the convo ongoing at TFF about this story.

Howdy
04-24-2009, 09:58 PM
Copy/pasted part of the convo ongoing at TFF about this story.

I have no idea what TFF is frankly.

Please supply a link.

I really don't agree with what has been said in what you quoted... I didn't mean to write it that way and this is the first instance of such a complaint I've seen.

Hasty
04-24-2009, 10:08 PM
TFF - The Fanfiction Forum (http://z14.invisionfree.com/The_Fanfiction_Forum/)

You need to register to view anything.

Specifically the post came from the Naruto Fanfic Update Thread (http://z14.invisionfree.com/The_Fanfiction_Forum/index.php?showtopic=4250&st=5550)

Robo Jesus
04-24-2009, 10:20 PM
What Hasty said.