1. DLP Flash Christmas Competition + Writing Marathon 2024!

    Competition topic: Magical New Year!

    Marathon goal? Crank out words!

    Check the marathon thread or competition thread for details.

    Dismiss Notice
  2. Hi there, Guest

    Only registered users can really experience what DLP has to offer. Many forums are only accessible if you have an account. Why don't you register?
    Dismiss Notice
  3. Introducing for your Perusing Pleasure

    New Thread Thursday
    +
    Shit Post Sunday

    READ ME
    Dismiss Notice

Observations of Writing in Fanfiction

Discussion in 'Fanfic Discussion' started by Andro, Jan 28, 2009.

  1. Andro

    Andro Master of Death DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2007
    Messages:
    3,947
    Over the past year since I started reading fanfiction, I've subconsciously made some idle observations about the technical aspect of the writing I've been exposed to. So I thought to make a thread to see what others you guys have noticed.

    Firstly, people that cannot write at all prefer using 'whilst' over 'while.' See 1,000 examples: http://www.fanfiction.net/search.php?type=story&plus_keywords=whilst

    The reasoning here is easy. Replacing a common word with one that sounds fancier is an attempt to give a false impression of sophistication. I have yet to see it occur in fanfics that are reasonably well-written, because their authors knows they've already proven their point with grammar and sentence structure. The same applies to published fiction.

    People that lack writing skills also tend to try to describe rain. For example: http://www.fanfiction.net/s/4167340/1/The_Solstice_of_Fate

    This is trickier. At first, I assumed it was to show off one's skill with description, but as is evident here, there is nothing whatsoever to show off.

    Invariably, this occurs exactly at the beginning. Always. Like this: http://www.fanfiction.net/s/4516967/2/Back_To_The_Place_Where_It_All_Began

    Writers often resort to stilted, lofty dialogue when they don't have a firm grasp on writing a realistic conversation.

    Being sometimes guilty of this myself, I believe the reasoning behind this is that if the reader is impressed enough by verbosity they will forget all about criticism.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2009
  2. Sophie

    Sophie Denarii Host

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2009
    Messages:
    179
    Location:
    Germany
  3. kmfrank

    kmfrank Denarii Host DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2008
    Messages:
    760
    Location:
    Ann Arbor, MI
    I feel good about myself, having never used "whilst" as far as I know.
     
  4. Zombie

    Zombie Black Philip Moderator DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2007
    Messages:
    6,036
    You will now. You've put the juju on yourself.

    Rain is good for detail. Not much else.
     
  5. Snarf

    Snarf Squanchin' Party Bro! ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2007
    Messages:
    18
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Forty-Six & 2
    High Score:
    1,832
    One way I've always been able to tell a good author from a bad one is by the first few paragraphs. Many authors try and create this grand, vivid imagery in the first few paragraphs, yet you can visibly watch as their writing deteriorates into crappy two word descriptions and dialogue as the first chapter progresses. I'll only read a story if the author understands this fact and either doesn't try and overload us with verbosity, or utilizes this same level of description throughout his entire work.

    Another one of my quick ways to tell if the author is run-of-the-mill or above-par is the setting in which they place the first chapter. For example, in Naruto one often finds themselves as a fly on the wall watching as a little six year old Jinchuuriki runs from an angry mob crying "kill the demon" and "you'll pay for what you did to my family" ... Yeah. Well, if I see something like that, I generally click my little side button on my mouse that sends me back to the previous page.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2009
  6. Militis

    Militis Supreme Mugwump

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2008
    Messages:
    1,683
    Location:
    Online
    I don't know...I see no problem with having Albus, who is a century and a half old, speak like this. Verbose, and saying everything but nothing at all. It's in his character. Long-winded and rambling, however is not. The above is still awkward to read.

    I agree with the rest of your post though. I hope I don't start describing the rain when I write... (Which is almost never, because it takes the alignment of the planets with Halley's Comet.)
     
  7. Averis

    Averis Don of Delivery ~ Prestige ~

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2007
    Messages:
    187
    Location:
    North Carolina
    High Score:
    3,065
    Some use stilted, short sentences and dialogue. Others use verbose, often frilly description to entice readers to spend team eyeing their stories. The best sort of writer, however, incorporates both into their writing, changing up the "flow" (for lack of a better word) of their narration, often with a reason correlative to the content of the passage.

    And some post their thoughts onto forums designed for these types of things and yet never apply their own advice to their own writing. And I hope that I am not one of these people.
     
  8. Andro

    Andro Master of Death DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2007
    Messages:
    3,947
    Well Militis, in that story I would understand it being in-character, except the rest of the story, excluding dialogue, was written in the same manner. So it could be a conscious characterization decision, it could just be the writing style bleeding into the dialogue.
    This is why I stay away from even DLP-sanctioned Naruto fics. The main character looks so ridiculous I'm glad he's persecuted by the villagers and beaten to a bloody pulp on a daily basis.

    I found the perfect example of the deterioration in writing.

    http://www.fanfiction.net/s/2165700/7/Workerbee

    There's no sign of it by the end of the first chapter. ;)

    The key to prose, I think, is to write something that looks nice without it being so overwrought it forces the reader to actually translate it. Taking that excerpt as an example, it reduces to this:

     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2009
  9. AntiChrist

    AntiChrist Professor

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2008
    Messages:
    479
    I'll have to admit I'm guilty of these things in my writing as well as a tendency to be overly wordy. That's why you'll probably never see any of my works released on the internet. Verbosity in general doesn't really annoy me, but I think it has to fit in with the situation. Same with the descriptions.
     
  10. Perspicacity

    Perspicacity Destroyer of Worlds ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2007
    Messages:
    1,022
    Location:
    Where idiots are not legally permitted to vote
    High Score:
    3,994
    I have a topical example set, ironically, in the Naruto universe. The opening lines go:

    Yeah.

    I'm probably as guilty as any of overcooked prose. I spend far too much time groping for imagery and symbolic resonance that either fails miserably or nobody else picks up on. (Well, except for that sick dude who admitted that he faps to the sex metaphors I scattered throughout D&R). As a general rule, I try to avoid single-purpose dramatization, save in action sequences, where tempo and pacing are of the highest priority. It's rarely appreciated, though I cherish reviews from the few who pick up on it.

    It's stupid, I admit, but it's a game I play with myself when I write. Were I to spend my time on things that actually matter (like coming up with a decent plot or interesting character for a change), I might actually make something of myself. :)
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2009
  11. The Fine Balance

    The Fine Balance Headmaster

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2006
    Messages:
    1,065
    Rain is so overused because 1) It has been commonly used to symbolize catharsis, washing away the dirt and so on and so forth 2) People find it had to make their own symbols and metaphors, hence they rely on common ones 3) Its bloody wet there, mate? :p

    But yeah, common enough occurrences. Many more though:

    People don't know how to make real characters hence they make their protagonists exceptionally beautiful and describe them in "opprobrious terms." - there is another one: using big words when they don't know exactly what they mean can be fucked to look them up.
     
  12. Juggler

    Juggler Death Eater DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2008
    Messages:
    993
    Location:
    Nova Scotia, Canada
    I think it's actually the opposite for some people(assuming we're talking about almost-good writers anyway). They make the main character mediocre, or terrible in a few different aspects, and yet they still achieve what a character of higher skill would normally do.

    *coughHarryPottercough*
     
  13. Bratling

    Bratling Professor

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2008
    Messages:
    409
    Location:
    middle of no where, Georgia
    Introspection is a pet peeve of mine, because it's excessively used in a great deal of fanfiction. I once saw a story in which it took twenty pages for a character to walk down a flight of stairs, such was the extent of the mental masturbation. Naval staring is boring, but some fic authors are convinced that it's good writing. Frankly, I don't want to read emo angsting that goes on for pages. I doubt other people do, either.
     
  14. Schrodinger

    Schrodinger Muggle ~ Prestige ~

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2009
    Messages:
    1
    High Score:
    1691
    Oops, forgot this isn't S&P...
     
  15. Dark Syaoran

    Dark Syaoran No. 4 Admin

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2005
    Messages:
    6,141
    Gender:
    Male
    I do this often.
     
  16. Amerision

    Amerision Galactic Sheep Emperor DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2006
    Messages:
    2,541
    Location:
    The Gardens in the Desert Sand
    A healthy dose of Strunk & White can solve many problems in writing. The one I wish people would learn to heart:

    Carve out unneeded words. If you can convey the same meaning without compromising atmosphere, characterization, or definition - do so. Wordy sentences tend to blur together and lose meaning and impact.

    A paraphrasing of course, but undeniably true. Stories should be sharp, concise, and written with word economy in mind. I've found myself in too many situations where I start skipping sentences. Before long I'm skimming the entire story.

    EDIT: Though, in retrospect, I find that having extra words in of itself gives a certain meaning. How can anyone be decide a word is worthless? The mere presence of that word has a meaning that would be lost if deleted.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2009
  17. RustyRed

    RustyRed High Inquisitor

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2008
    Messages:
    546
    Location:
    Washington, USA
    Oy, I totally agree with this. There are authors who are trying to create a picture, and then there are authors who want people to be impressed by their amazing vocabulary. If I start to feel the way I do when I'm reading some science journal article, in which I have to ponder and piece together the meaning of everything instead of just going with the flow, then something's wrong.

    I mean yes, sometimes there's a specific word that conveys exactly what you mean (that's why we have so many of them, right? :p ) but sometimes it's just absurd.

    Fiction is supposed to be EASY to digest, enjoyable, and vivid. The author is supposed to fade into the background, not call attention to themselves. There's a tool you can use in microsoft word that can calculate like the readability of your work--the flesch reading ease score.

    If you go all the way through grammar check, you can have it calculated. I'm a pretty firm believer that a good story keeps the score around 8 (which is to say an eighth grader could understand it--though in recent times that's kind of a dubious thing to say) and the 'ease of reading score' should be around 75--and this is out of 100, where 100 is really easy to read, and 0 is impossible, I guess.

    To be honest, I just ran the test thingy on my story, and got a grade level 6.1 (haha!) and an ease of reading score of 75. I think it's all based on how many big words and long, unwieldy sentences you have, and really, if you want a vivid, lively story, it's good to keep some parts pretty punchy, right?

    I dunno; I think it would be pretty cool if we all tried it just to see what we'd get; I think most people would be surprised.
     
  18. Rahkesh Asmodaeus

    Rahkesh Asmodaeus THUNDAH Bawd Admin DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2005
    Messages:
    5,129
    Location:
    Atlanta
    Holy shit, a feature of Word that I wasn't aware of. Thanks Rusty! :awesome

    Potter Tradition of Red has a Flesch Reading Ease of 83.0 and a Flesch-Kincaid Grade Level of 4.8. XD
     
  19. Perspicacity

    Perspicacity Destroyer of Worlds ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2007
    Messages:
    1,022
    Location:
    Where idiots are not legally permitted to vote
    High Score:
    3,994
    First chapter of Dagger and Rose:

    Flesch reading ease: 76.2
    Flesch-Kincaid grade level: 6.6
     
  20. Nuhuh

    Nuhuh Dastardly Shadow Admin Retired Staff

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2006
    Messages:
    2,080
    Location:
    USA
    Flesh-Kincaid...damn, bad High School memories coming back.

    I hated this feature, even though it always rated me high.

    It was the principle of the thing, how can a damn computer know good writing?

    Also, Strunk and White is a great resource. It's short, easy to read, and it can fit in your pocket. My writing doesn't yet reflect that I am reading the book, but I hope it will soon.
     
Loading...