Naruto Law

[Chengar Qordath]

Inspired by the long-running Potter Law thread, it occured to me that it might not be a bad idea to toss together a list of general dos and don'ts for making good Naruto fanfiction. I'll toss out a couple ideas to start things off.

1. The villagers of Konoha didn't particularly like or trust Naruto for much of his childhood due to his jinchuriki status, and he didn't have any real friends as a child. This should not be exaggerated into "Everyone in Konoha regularly joins massive mobs of angry citizens formed for the express purpose of beating Naruto to death."

2. Anyone who writes a High School Alternate Universe fic has failed as a human being.

3. Naruto does not have a secret hidden bloodline which is far stronger than any other bloodline and/or is a combination of every existing bloodline.

4. The Kyuubi is a Demon Fox whose only goal is to be free of Naruto; it does not care about any of Naruto's suffering or happiness, and it does not want to be his father/mother/best friend/love interest. The Fox does want Naruto alive until it gets free, but that's it.

5. Gratuitous Japanese impresses nobody. Since the source material is a manga/anime some bits of Japanese are inoffensive and even useful, but don't go overboard. Nobody wants to learn Japanese just to be able to read your fanfic.

[Krogan]

Alright I'll see if I can come up with a couple of good ones

1. Hinata is not secretly hiding incredible skills that make her capable of taking on Jounin or the entire Rookie 9 beneath her meek nature, she's simply a moderately skilled ninja who happens to be very shy.

2. Stop using the phrase "Precious People" so damned much, Naruto doesn't and you shouldn't either, its fucking irritating.

3. The Third Hokage is a military dictator in the simplest of terms while he didn't pamper Naruto he certainly wasn't blackmailed into letting him get beat.

4. The scrolls from his parents detailing the ancient forgotten super techniques of both of their clans which can beat any bloodline, it needs to stop, its just bad.

5. While Sakura does have more than a couple of issues she is a semi-rational human being that is not going to literally attempt to murder Naruto because he messed Sasuke's hair up.

I'll have more later.

[Verse of Darkness]

6. Jounin, ANBU, and whatever veteran Shinobi are NOT idiots.

[Perspicacity]

1. The nine-tailed fox is an immortal chakra entity of unfathomable power. As such, its answer to being continually called "Fuzzbutt," "Furball," or any other such inanity shall be to kill its host with fire.

2. Canon Naruto can't handle a relationship with one woman. Giving him a harem is just plain silly.

3. If your story spontaneously retcons the Naruto universe in order to make Samurai and Monks > Ninja, you shouldn't be allowed near a keyboard. I'm looking at you, Perfect Lionheart.

4. Kakashi is not mentally retarded, nor is Jiraiya. Each has an exaggerated fascination with pornography and sex that is consistent with a universe where accomplished shinobi get knocked out by nosebleeds upon seeing a nude female.

4b. Corollary to #4: If possible, pretend that the whole nosebleed thing doesn't exist.

5. Naruto and Sasuke both know which are their "in" holes and which are their "out" holes. They don't get them confused. Moreover, though they shared a kiss in canon, it was enough to convince them that they weren't destined to be the other's snuggle muffin.

6. Anko portrayed as "violent sex addict who trains Naruto via torture" was on the way to becoming cliché when LT2000 did it. There's no excuse to use this trope now.

6b. Corollary to #6: Unless you're LT2000.

7. Cutesy Naruto-falling-for-Hinata romance with lots of stammering and emoangst and blushing: no, just... no.

[Lady Sorrows]

1. Haku is not a girl

2. Naruto does not have fox ears, a tail, claws, or fox summons, Naruto is not Inuyasha.

3. Naruto has not been waring a 'Mask' of happiness and stupidity since he could talk to hide his terrible terrible inner anguish. He is not calculating, cool headed, or super smart, in conclusion he not secretly a blond Sauske.

4. Sauske is not going to wake up one day and decide he is in love with Sakura, if it ever happens it will be seriously slow going.

5. Sweat drops, falling over suddenly, sudden sunsets behind Gai and 'nice guy poses' should not be included in written fanfiction. Ever.

6. Kakishi and Iruka are not a secret couple.

[Krogan]

1. Haku is not a girl


I will propose a corollary to this rule that the less accomplished authors should stay away from this because I have seen this done exceptionally well with HitokiriOTD's "Tempered in Water" as one of the foremost examples which was and still remains one of my favorite Naruto fics despite the inhumanely slow update rate.

[Random Shinobi]

1. The nine-tailed fox is an immortal chakra entity of unfathomable power. As such, its answer to being called "Fuzzbutt," "Furball," or any other such inanity shall be to kill its host with fire.
Actually, Naruto calling Kyuubi as furball might be canon. I'm not quite sure. He did call the demon "stupid fox" when they met for the first time.

[Perspicacity]

Actually, Naruto calling Kyuubi as furball might be canon. I'm not quite sure. He did call the demon "stupid fox" when they met for the first time.

Touché. I changed "called" to "continually called." I find it tiresome to hear Kyuubi referred to by twenty stupid names per chapter in fanfiction stories. (It reminds me too much of "Death Munchers," "Voldedork," "Dumbles," and the like from HP fanfiction).

[Agayek]

Actually, Naruto calling Kyuubi as furball might be canon. I'm not quite sure. He did call the demon "stupid fox" when they met for the first time.

I'm pretty sure "Fuzzball" or any of the other derivatives is not cannon. However, I'm also fairly sure that if Naruto were to call him that in canon, the fox would flip out and at least scare the shit out of the idiot.

Back on topic:

The only one I can think of that hasn't already been said:

1) If you are not an native English speaker, don't use Babelfish translations for your fic.

1b) If you are a native English speaker but spell at a 2nd grade level, do not write your fic.

[Krogan]

Touché. I changed "called" to "continually called." I find it tiresome to hear Kyuubi referred to by twenty stupid names per chapter in fanfiction stories. (It reminds me too much of "Death Munchers," "Voldedork," "Dumbles," and the like from HP fanfiction).

I agree there is a line between showing bravery on Naruto's part and just making him look retarded by insulting an ancient demon 24/7 to be a tough guy. I don't mind it all that much if he says it once or twice if he's standing up to the demon but it wears thin quickly.

Oh and I have one more that you reminded me of

1. Under no fucking circumstances is the Kyubbi going to seriously refer too Naruto as kit/kitling/pup or any variation there of, if he does indeed do so it should immediatley set off warning bells with Naruto that something is terribly wrong and the demon is plotting something.

[sincostan]

Oh God. Kitling/kit/pup reminds me of all those fics with Sirius/Remus as gay parents to Harry.

[DarkAizen]

I think that by the end of the manga Kishi will break every one of these laws.

Anyway:

1.Kyubbi does not have some amazing power to travel Naruto back in time, if he had he would not be stuck in the seal.

2.Itachi is rutless killer, a psihopat regardless of what the manga says.

3.Keep it Naruto centric! We dont care if Sakura is fucking the entire Akatsuki.

4.Pein is God. That is all.

[Mindless]

2.Itachi is rutless killer, a psihopat regardless of what the manga says.


A what?


filler

[Jon]

2.Itachi is rutless killer, a psihopat regardless of what the manga says.

Yeah, no.

4.Pein is God. That is all.

You really suck at this, you know?

[Chengar Qordath]

3. Naruto has not been waring a 'Mask' of happiness and stupidity since he could talk to hide his terrible terrible inner anguish.
It does bear mentioning that cannon (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/98/13/) says (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/22/09/) his overconfident bragging and general excessive happiness and good mood does serve as a bit of a mask for his uncertainty. Still, it's also very clear that, unlike Sasuke, he has long since accepted that shit happens and learned to deal with it rather than constantly angsting about it, so your overall point stands.

3. The Third Hokage is a military dictator in the simplest of terms while he didn't pamper Naruto he certainly wasn't blackmailed into letting him get beat.
This one becomes twenty times worse if it happens after Tsunade becomes Hokage; she's the closest thing Naruto has to a mother and would murder anyone who even suggested letting him get hurt.

1. Under no fucking circumstances is the Kyubbi going to seriously refer too Naruto as kit/kitling/pup or any variation there of, if he does indeed do so it should immediatley set off warning bells with Naruto that something is terribly wrong and the demon is plotting something.
1a. He also will not refer to Naruto's love interest as a vixen, nor will the Fox encourage Naruto to mate with her at the soonest possible opportunity. The Nine-Tailed Fox is an ancient and powerful demon, and does not give a shit about Naruto's love life.

Now for a couple more laws:

6. Inner Sakura is the repressed emotions and desires of a teenaged girl with confidence issues, not a secret ultra-powerful bloodline that boosts Sakura up to Naruto and Sasuke's power level or beyond.

7. Anime and Manga are not strictly realistic in their depictions of characters, especially when things are being played for laughs. Sakura does not beat Naruto half to death every time he gets on her nerves, killer nosebleeds are not the actual reaction to the Sexy Jutsu, Lee's eyes do not literally catch on fire when he gets excited, etc.

8. The fact that Orochimaru has a strong pedophile vibe to him does not excuse actually portraying him as such in graphic detail.

9. Sasuke's brooding exterior does not conceal a deeply loving romantic soul just waiting for the right woman to unlock his heart, it conceals a revenge-obsessed, power-hungry, budding sociopath.

10. Naruto's hyperactivity and thickness should not be mistaken for severe ADD and mental retardation; he can be intelligent and focused when things get serious. By the same token, Shikamaru's apathy, Choji's gluttony, Jiraiya's perversity, and other similar character flaws do not impede the character's ability to function as a ninja.

[Fardeki]

Just like to further support the bill behind these laws:

1. No nosebleeds.
2. No sweat drops
3. No sunset illusions behind Gai.

Whilst sometimes amusing in the anime I watch on T.V., it should never be included in any written form of Naruto Fanfiction. Except for a crackfic.

[Chime??]

1. Stick with canon techniques. If you have to invent one, don't use katakana-English dictionaries, just say the technique name in English. Or make it a bloodline. Keep techniques simple, while we're at it. We don't need a technique which makes a nuclear explosion, summons people from the future, et cetera. Naruto can have interesting techniques without having to make up new ones.

2. Certain canon events can and should be ignored: the Akatsuki are not a bunch of people pretending to be powerful, they actually are, really. If a young Naruto were to fight one without using the Kyuubi he'd lose, badly. Like, in a couple of seconds.

3. The use of animals to represent characters is tired (Fox, Dog, Snake) either as nicknames or as 'secret messages' or 'prophecies'.

4. If Naruto is to be kidnapped or run away from Konoha, it should be under very special circumstances (such as political chaos). It should not be something easily accomplished. If Naruto is tried and found guilty for some kind of crime, it's a death sentence, he will not be 'exiled.'



edit:

Wut

I looked up psihopat on google - it's croatian for 'psychopath'.

...

[Clayton]

11. Naruto's "special bond" with Gaara is not to be seen as room for homosexuality. It is a close friendship born out of similar childhoods, and Naruto being the first person to accept him. That is all.

12. When in battle, a ninja of higher caliber than their opponent shouldn't lose. If they do lose, it is because they either a) are outnumbered severely or b) have seriously underestimated their opponent.

13. Having a bloodline does not make you all-powerful. It does, however, make you an arrogant douche.

14. No ninja should ever have skill equal to a demon, unless it is two-tailed or below, and even then, you are pushing it.

15. Ninja are not moving WMDs, unless they are jinchuuriki or know the Hirashin No Jutsu. As such, if Konoha is at war, people should die. They should not be rendered immortal if Naruto knows them.

16. Contrary to popular belief, the Hokage should not be rendered immobile by mounds of paperwork. If they are the strongest ninja in the village, it stands to reason that they also possess intelligence, therefore it would occur to them to use Kage Bunshin to get the paperwork done.

17. Minato did not fuck up the seal. If Jiraiya admits that Minato was better at sealing than he is, you're pretty fucking assured that the man knew what the fuck he was doing.

18. Naruto is leaps and bounds ahead of the rest of the rookie 9. He should not be having a somewhat fair fight against anyone that isn't named Sakura or Sasuke.

19. Obey canon. If you're retconning canon to fit your situation, make it plausible. For instance, Jiraiya taking Naruto with him when he left. Unlikely, but plausible.

20. In part 1, Sakura is a useless fangirl. Unless Kakashi decides to seriously involve himself in their training, which he probably won't, Sakura will remain such until Tsunade becomes the Hokage.

21. Any and all jokes involving a personal quirk of someone from canon have been done to death. If you absolutely have to do it, please make it short. We've seen it done before.

22. Naruto does not possess a bloodline. He's a jinchuuriki and the child of the Yondaime Hokage. It's plausible for him to be awesome without a bloodline.

23. Naruto is an only child. He would have discovered any relatives by now.

24. In all likelihood, Kushina is dead. Uzu No Kuni is a wasteland. Stop with the fanfic where she comes back or Naruto finds his entire family.

25. Minato probably didn't have time to factor in a few things, like Jiraiya weakening his seal, with the immortal being attacking his village. As such, the seal degrading over time is pretty likely.

26. The seal was designed so that when Naruto dies, so does the Kyuubi. That is all. No amount of attacking the seal will release it.

27. The Kyuubi, in all likelihood, is an 'it'. If it absolutely must have a gender, it is male.

28. If Naruto travels to Iwa or Kumo, he will be attacked by the ninja there because he looks like Minato.

29. The Naruto-verse is both backwards and modern. It is also Japanese. If your characters seem more American than Japanese, you're doing it wrong.

30. The currency of the Shinobi World is Ryo.

31. Characters have established personalities. If Jiraiya stops being a pervert, something serious is happening. This should not occur on a whim of the character.

32. If your name is not Naruto, and you are his age, you should not know about the Kyuubi.

[Jon]

6. Inner Sakura is the repressed emotions and desires of a teenaged girl with confidence issues, not a secret ultra-powerful bloodline that boosts Sakura up to Naruto and Sasuke's power level or beyond.I could so dig this if 'Inner Sakura' mentally pwned 'Outer Sakura' and took over the drive seat. :)

4. If Naruto is to be kidnapped or run away from Konoha, it should be under very special circumstances (such as political chaos). It should not be something easily accomplished. If Naruto is tried and found guilty for some kind of crime, it's a death sentence, he will not be 'exiled.'I agree, if Naruto jwalks stone him to death. o_o

13. Having a bloodline does not make you all-powerful. It does, however, make you an
arrogant douche.Haku disagrees.

16. Contrary to popular belief, the Hokage should not be rendered immobile by mounds of paperwork. If they are the strongest ninja in the village, it stands to reason that they also possess intelligence, therefore it would occur to them to use Kage Bunshin to get the paperwork done.The legal system disagrees.

23. Naruto is an only child. He would have discovered any relatives by now.Minato's brother's cousin's half sibling's grandmother's husband's estranged daughter disagrees.

27. The Kyuubi, in all likelihood, is an 'it'. If it absolutely must have a gender, it is male.I dunno, while a fair few are crap I've read some pretty awesome pretendstobefemale!it!Kyuubi.

28. If Naruto travels to Iwa or Kumo, he will be attacked by the ninja there because he looks like Minato.I disagree.

[NightSpy]

4. The Kyuubi is a Demon Fox whose only goal is to be free of Naruto; it does not care about any of Naruto's suffering or happiness, and it does not want to be his father/mother/best friend/love interest. The Fox does want Naruto alive until it gets free, but that's it.


The fact that kyuubi is a demon, and that it wants out of the seal should include any and all means to do so. It is not so impossible to think that she would use whatever way she could use to get Naruto trusting/loving her to set her free.

That said, most stories take that to the extreme, so one should limit the demon act so the reader knows it just an act.

Therefore: Kyuubi influencing Naruto's mind to orgasmic dreams filled with sexual delusions is possible.(I just faced Desire on dragon age, blame the game.)

[Clayton]

I disagree.

How so? iirc, it's canon that Iwa and Kumo loathe Minato. As such, they'd probably kill him just to make sure he wasn't the second coming of their anti-christ.

[Chengar Qordath]

I disagree.
Seconded; there are enough blue-eyed blonds in the Naruto-verse that nobody would immediately assume he was related to Minato. Unless he does something like the Rasengan or any other signature jutsus of the Fourth Hokage he probably would be able to blend in well enough.

The fact that kyuubi is a demon, and that it wants out of the seal should include any and all means to do so. It is not so impossible to think that she would use whatever way she could use to get Naruto trusting/loving her to set her free.

That said, most stories take that to the extreme, so one should limit the demon act so the reader knows it just an act.

Therefore: Kyuubi influencing Naruto's mind to orgasmic dreams filled with sexual delusions is possible.(I just faced Desire on dragon age, blame the game.)
True enough, the Kyuubi manipulating Naruto in order to make him remove the seal is entirely possible. However, that assumes that the Kyuubi is reasonably familiar with and capable of understanding human psychology, which is hardly a given for a demon/chakra entity.

[Verse of Darkness]

28. Shinobi are not samurai, there is no honor. They don't blatantly go off telling whatever citizen they come across that they are a ninja from such and such. They will use whatever advantage trick and/or cheat they have to best there opponent.

[Krogan]

12. When in battle, a ninja of higher caliber than their opponent shouldn't lose. If they do lose, it is because they either a) are outnumbered severely or b) have seriously underestimated their opponent.

13. Having a bloodline does not make you all-powerful. It does, however, make you an arrogant douche.

15. Ninja are not moving WMDs, unless they are jinchuuriki or know the Hirashin No Jutsu. As such, if Konoha is at war, people should die. They should not be rendered immortal if Naruto knows them.

16. Contrary to popular belief, the Hokage should not be rendered immobile by mounds of paperwork. If they are the strongest ninja in the village, it stands to reason that they also possess intelligence, therefore it would occur to them to use Kage Bunshin to get the paperwork done.

18. Naruto is leaps and bounds ahead of the rest of the rookie 9. He should not be having a somewhat fair fight against anyone that isn't named Sakura or Sasuke.

21. Any and all jokes involving a personal quirk of someone from canon have been done to death. If you absolutely have to do it, please make it short. We've seen it done before.

24. In all likelihood, Kushina is dead. Uzu No Kuni is a wasteland. Stop with the fanfic where she comes back or Naruto finds his entire family.

27. The Kyuubi, in all likelihood, is an 'it'. If it absolutely must have a gender, it is male.

28. If Naruto travels to Iwa or Kumo, he will be attacked by the ninja there because he looks like Minato.

32. If your name is not Naruto, and you are his age, you should not know about the Kyuubi.

12. I have to disagree completely on this one, they shouldn't lose for a retarded reason like the power of lurve or something like that but there are a multitude of reasons as to why a chunin could beat a jounin in a one on one fight from proper preparation to just plain overconfidence on the part of the Jounin. Genin versus an ANBU sure genin loses 99.9% of the time but I think your too strict on that one.

13. I think it should be the opposite actually having a bloodline does not make you all powerful or a douche by default but coincidentally enough a large percentage of those who have them are douchbags.

15. I agree, its a village populated almost exclusively by mercenaries dedicated to war, people should die.

16. Agree again the paperwork joke is long past stale and old.

17. This is all dependent on what point in time in the series its at, if its say for instance post time skip then I agree with you he can easily take most all of the Rookie 9. However pre-time skip I disagree completely Neji/Kiba/Shikamaru are easily able to match him.

21. Depends on the writer and how its used really, some make it work and some don't. Also for some characters its an integral part of their personality not just a quirk. Kakashi lives for his porn, now quite a few take the jokes much too far with it but it is still part of who he is and does bear mentioning.

24. I agree with the second half about random family fics but there is evidence to make a reasonable case for Kushina still being alive as far I recall so I have to disagree with you on that.

27. I agree that in all likelihood the Kyuubi is an it however if you want to pick a gender theres really not much evidence one way or another so either one works as long as it doesn't have much bearing on its personality.

28. No that's retarded, they are ninja villages i.e. major military powers they are not going to simply go around attacking anyone who likes a guy they don't like. If they have quality intelligence that suggests he might actually have an honest connection to Minato then yes they might go after him but they are not going to start attacking people in the streets just because they happen to have blond hair and blue eyes.

32. Depends on if your making the fic AU or not, if it is cannon then I agree but if not then no.


Edit: Thought of another one

While Naruto was indeed a crafty prankster he was in no way capable of outrunning and escaping from the ANBU who are the Hokages personal special forces team before he even entered the Academy.

[whateveritis12]

28. If Naruto travels to Iwa or Kumo, he will be attacked by the ninja there because he looks like Minato.

I'd say if anything only in Iwa should they have a reaction, and even then only in the first few years after the end of the war/his death.

We don't know enough about the fight with Kumo to make any definitive rules about them before Shippuden (even then we can only focus on Bee, the Raikage, and Bee's team if that).

I'd say my biggest pet peeve would be the Kyuubi calling Naruto Kit. I don't really have a problem with the Kyuubi helping Naruto, as long as it stays only with chakra and it says that it's doing it to keep Naruto alive. A too friendly Kyuubi does nothing for me, unless it's at least semi-crack.

[Clayton]

21. Depends on the writer and how its used really, some make it work and some don't. Also for some characters its an integral part of their personality not just a quirk. Kakashi lives for his porn, now quite a few take the jokes much too far with it but it is still part of who he is and does bear mentioning.

24. I agree with the second half about random family fics but there is evidence to make a reasonable case for Kushina still being alive as far I recall so I have to disagree with you on that.

32. Depends on if your making the fic AU or not, if it is cannon then I agree but if not then no.


Edit: Thought of another one

While Naruto was indeed a crafty prankster he was in no way capable of outrunning and escaping from the ANBU who are the Hokages personal special forces team before he even entered the Academy.

21. Agree completely. What I was talking about, however, was the jokes about, say, Naruto's obsession with ramen. It's pretty likely that it's the only thing he could afford as an orphan, living by himself, and probably using most of the money given to him by the Hokage to pay his landlord.

24. Yes, there is evidence of Kushina being alive. Said evidence, however, is that it's not stated whether or not she's alive or dead. As it is, Naruto probably wouldn't immediately forgive her, regardless. He sucker-punched Minato, what the hell do you think he'd do to her?

32. No. Just no. The Sandaime made it a law that if you speak about Naruto's family or his status as the Kyuubi's jinchuuriki without the Hokage's or Naruto's direct permission, you die. End of story. In an AU story, if the kiddies do know about Naruto's status as a jinchuuriki, then it's not much of a stretch for every other country to know about it either, since the kiddies would go blab to their friends and a spy could easily overhear.

As to your edit: I completely agree. It would not surprise me if they merely delayed capturing him so that they could get out of patrolling Konoha for an hour or so. Those fics where Iruka is the only person who can catch Naruto? No. A Chuunin is not more capable than an ANBU.

To suggest another rule for the lulz, and because of gamefaqs:

33. Iruka is the most powerful being. Ever. If he stopped Naruto from becoming another Gaara, he must by godly.

[Krogan]

21. Agree completely. What I was talking about, however, was the jokes about, say, Naruto's obsession with ramen. It's pretty likely that it's the only thing he could afford as an orphan, living by himself, and probably using most of the money given to him by the Hokage to pay his landlord.

24. Yes, there is evidence of Kushina being alive. Said evidence, however, is that it's not stated whether or not she's alive or dead. As it is, Naruto probably wouldn't immediately forgive her, regardless. He sucker-punched Minato, what the hell do you think he'd do to her?

32. No. Just no. The Sandaime made it a law that if you speak about Naruto's family or his status as the Kyuubi's jinchuuriki without the Hokage's or Naruto's direct permission, you die. End of story. In an AU story, if the kiddies do know about Naruto's status as a jinchuuriki, then it's not much of a stretch for every other country to know about it either, since the kiddies would go blab to their friends and a spy could easily overhear.

As to your edit: I completely agree. It would not surprise me if they merely delayed capturing him so that they could get out of patrolling Konoha for an hour or so. Those fics where Iruka is the only person who can catch Naruto? No. A Chuunin is not more capable than an ANBU.



21. Oh yes definitely, the endless string of ramen jokes is just really really old.

24. Never said how he'd react, I just said that there is sufficient enough evidence that a skilled writer could make a case for her being alive and make a story from it.

32. I mean in an unavoidable situation, I have read say for instance when the Kumo representative tries to take Hinata, he happens to run across Naruto along the way who was playing with Kiba, and Naruto starts yelling trying to get someones attention when he notices Hinata, being a mildly competent ninja the man promptly cuts his throat from ear to ear to shut him up and when he does so the Kyuubi comes out and rips his face off for his efforts while Hinata and Kiba watch.

[Clayton]

32. I mean in an unavoidable situation, I have read say for instance when the Kumo representative tries to take Hinata, he happens to run across Naruto along the way who was playing with Kiba, and Naruto starts yelling trying to get someones attention when he notices Hinata, being a mildly competent ninja the man promptly cuts his throat from ear to ear to shut him up and when he does so the Kyuubi comes out and rips his face off for his efforts while Hinata and Kiba watch.

Entirely plausible. And this is not what I was getting at. What I meant was the random stories where everybody knows that Naruto is the Kyuubi's jinchuuriki, just so he can angst more because of all the hate. Also, link please. Shit sounds awesome.

[whateveritis12]

24. Yes, there is evidence of Kushina being alive. Said evidence, however, is that it's not stated whether or not she's alive or dead. As it is, Naruto probably wouldn't immediately forgive her, regardless. He sucker-punched Minato, what the hell do you think he'd do to her?

It depends on if she just left him to the village because she couldn't stand how they treated her along with him, or if she was ordered on a long term mission, or she just didn't know he was still alive (I've seen that used a lot).

Whirlpool Country is a good fic and it has both Kushina and Rin alive. Kushina went into labor during the Kyuubi and didn't know what Minato would do to defeat the fox. She ends up going out to the battlefield as Minato is bring brought back to the village on a stretcher, noticeably dead. Then when she makes her way back to the hospital to check on Naruto, Fugaku is standing above him and Naruto looks possessed or something and Fugaku pronounces him dead. She suffers a mental breakdown and Rin takes her out of the village to recuperate. Then from there it's like 5 years before she can hear about Konoha without breaking down, but she can't get close to the village without breaking down. Since Rin (and Kushina) don't have any news from the village they don't hear that Naruto is alive and then when Jiraiya gets a wind master to help Naruto Rin finds out Naruto is alive.

To me that's something that is acceptable for Kushina to be alive, and for Naruto to not want to try to take off her head.

[Garrus]

1. The author shall not write entire lines of dialogue in Japanese. It drives everyone nuts and does not make the story any more "authentic."

2. The Village elders are not stupid, they're not going to plot assassination attempts on very valuable assets to the village like Naruto.

3. Drunken mobs do not chase Naruto around nightly trying to "kill the demon".

4. If you really want a Akatsuki!Naruto story, then for Christ's sake don't make Akatsuki the good guys.

[Chengar Qordath]

Those fics where Iruka is the only person who can catch Naruto? No. A Chuunin is not more capable than an ANBU.
Iruka does have the advantage of knowing pretty much every single one of Naruto's tricks and hiding places; familiarity with the target and experience with the specific task in question (catching Naruto) can do a lot to make up for being less skilled overall. Still, ANBU wouldn't be bothering to deal with Naruto's pranks in the first place, since it's a task that's massively beneath their dignity.

12. I have to disagree completely on this one, they shouldn't lose for a retarded reason like the power of lurve or something like that but there are a multitude of reasons as to why a chunin could beat a jounin in a one on one fight from proper preparation to just plain overconfidence on the part of the Jounin. Genin versus an ANBU sure genin loses 99.9% of the time but I think your too strict on that one.
Rank ≠ Combat Power in the Nartuo-verse; Naruto himself is a shining example of that since he's still a Genin yet fully capable of taking down a Kage at his current power level. The Chunin Exams didn't even consider personal combat ability until the third stage, and even then winning the fight was far less important than showing tactical skill/leadership potential during your battle. It's entirely likely there are Genin who are combat powerhouses yet totally incapable of holding a command position, and Jounin who aren't that great at fighting but are brilliant leaders.

In an AU story, if the kiddies do know about Naruto's status as a jinchuuriki, then it's not much of a stretch for every other country to know about it either, since the kiddies would go blab to their friends and a spy could easily overhear.
I'm pretty sure that at least the other major countries knew about Naruto's jinchuriki status from the start; every single adult in Konoha knows, so it seems rather likely word would have gotten out at some point. Of course, there's a big difference between a few high-ranking people in foreign nations knowing Naruto's the Kyuubi jinchuriki and it being common knowledge for every foreign ninja Naruto meets.

That does give me an idea for a one-shot where every foreign ninja knows Naruto's the Kyuubi container, prompting Sasuke and Sakura to wonder why every time they run into foreign ninjas on a mission the foreigners run away as soon as they recognize Naruto.

Now, to add some more laws:

34. There is no remotely plausible way a 12 year-old Naruto can wield Zabuza's sword.

35. Naruto likes orange. He is not forced to wear orange because nobody will sell him any other type of clothing, nor is he eagerly waiting for someone to buy him clothes that look cooler so he can stop wearing orange. Compared to some of the outfits people wear in the Naruto-verse, an orange jumpsuit isn't that outlandish.

36. Naruto does not need to end every line of written dialogue with "Believe it" or the Japanese equivalent of "Dattebayo." The fact that this term shows up so much in the Japanese version is a result of that language's unique oddities, and trying to carry it over to English is both pointless and annoying.

36a. The people responsible for dubbing the anime should have figured that out a lot sooner than they did.

[Clayton]

37. AU stories where Naruto is picked up and raised by someone who does not belong in the Naruto-verse are stupid and should not be done. Yes, I am looking at you, DMC/Naruto crossovers.

38. Just because it's awesome by itself does not mean it belongs in the Naruto-verse.

39. If Naruto becomes something he is not, there had better be some serious shit going down.

40. It is perfectly acceptable to alter the graduating age of the Academy. This would better prepare them for their ninja careers. It is, however, not perfectly acceptable, for a five-year-old Naruto to kill a man and walk away whistling Baby I Love Your Way.

edit: Question regarding proposed law 39. Punisher!Naruto, anyone?

[Howdy]

Judge.

Jury.

Executioner.

"Present."

3. Naruto does not have a secret hidden bloodline which is far stronger than any other bloodline and/or is a combination of every existing bloodline.

I'm disliking this already.

You confuse "bloodline" with a "bloodline limit." Naruto does hail from a rather epic bloodline. His father was one of the strongest ninja in the world and was said to possess reflexes that could defeat the Sharingan in single combat. The current Raikage had to create a powerful ninjutsu to simply emulate Namikaze Minato's movements.

Naruto possesses exceptional chakras that have nothing to do with the Kyuubi. He is only able to subdue it thanks to his powerful "bloodline" and inborn powers.

This speaks nothing of his mother, who was named Uzumaki and hailed from the nation of Uzu. His style of fighting and personality were said to favor hers, which can only speak to incredibly powerful kunoichi.

Alright I'll see if I can come up with a couple of good ones

4. The scrolls from his parents detailing the ancient forgotten super techniques of both of their clans which can beat any bloodline, it needs to stop, its just bad.

I'll have more later.

Really?

Because unlike Harry Potter's parents, Naruto's were the fucking shit, and presumably Minato's ninjutsu (the sort that could be written into scrolls, if he so chose) were capable of defeating any bloodline. Madara was the only ninja able to fight him in canon, and for all we know Minato abandoned the fight to seal the Kyuubi not because he was losing but because the Kyuubi had to be dealt with to protect his people.

6. Jounin, ANBU, and whatever veteran Shinobi are NOT idiots.

Except the one ANBU that jumped headfirst into a powerful barrier and died?

ANBU are fodder, and so are many "veteran" shinobi that may come to mind.



So, trouble within the first three posts. You can't look at this like you do the HP universe. You may be tired of some cliches, but in reality you, like me, are simply tired of substandard writing. The canon universe is so diverse that there is little excuse for an author to fall into the more overused cliches and pitfalls, but so many of these "laws" are absurd and don't mesh with what is possible in canon at all.

HP Law made me laugh. Reading this thread past the first three posts will probably make me cry. I'm just sorry that you all had to read the shit that's out there in the Naruto fandom.

Personally I don't read Naruto fanfiction anymore, outside of a scant few stories when I'm bored out of my mind.

Try writing something, please. I'm seriously begging you.


Edit: Oh, look at this, post #4 wasn't so bad.

This thread may be redeemable.

---------- Post automerged at 01:27 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:18 AM ----------

1.Pain is God. That is all.

This is the first and only rule.

So far.

(I'm not actually expecting other rules to crop up.)

---------- Post automerged at 01:46 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:27 AM ----------

28. If Naruto travels to Iwa or Kumo, he will be attacked by the ninja there because he looks like Minato.

This explains perfectly why the Raikage attacked him at first glance, even knowing that he was the Kyuubi's jinchuuriki.

---------- Post automerged at 01:49 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:46 AM ----------

28. Shinobi are not samurai, there is no honor. They don't blatantly go off telling whatever citizen they come across that they are a ninja from such and such. They will use whatever advantage trick and/or cheat they have to best there opponent.

Minato disagrees.

See Wave Arc.

I believe that the quote is about courage, but it still rings true of honor. Ninja are the legitimate military arms of their nations. Don't pretend that in the Naruto universe there is no such thing as diplomacy or ethics. You have to be a "big bad" to get away with that shit.

---------- Post automerged at 01:56 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:49 AM ----------

Those fics where Iruka is the only person who can catch Naruto? No. A Chuunin is not more capable than an ANBU.

Most ANBU are chuunin.

Itachi was a chuunin when he became part of the ANBU. It's a specialized branch of the ninja forces - not a super-elite squadron.

Ninja that graduate after being an ANBU captain are those such as Kakashi and Tenzou - they become the elite jounin. The elite jounin are the strongest fighters in the village - not the ANBU.

Look at Ao. He's the Kiri Kakashi.

[ZeroTheDestroyer]

@Howday: I am writing something! Yay for me! Good rant, though I don't know where the source for the Raikage copying Minato comes from, but I could just have missed that. I am pretty sure Ninja have no morals, and not all of them are strong. That scene where the random leaf nin gets scared by Nagato's parents and kills them by accident isn't exactly a representation of their god like statues, and apparently those were Ninja soldiers.

[Fardeki]

The use of a fox as Naruto's ANBU mask. No one else in Konoha would even dream of using a fox as their mask. From what we know of canon Naruto is the only one with a link to any fox at all, everyone in the know would link a fox mask instantly to Naruto, which kinds of defeats the purpose of keeping an identity hidden.

[Random Shinobi]

n an AU story, if the kiddies do know about Naruto's status as a jinchuuriki, then it's not much of a stretch for every other country to know about it either, since the kiddies would go blab to their friends and a spy could easily overhear.
The other villages cannot be incompetent enough to not know about Naruto being a Jinchuuriki. There's no fucking way they don't have a single spy in Konoha. All adults in the village know about Naruto and that means that the spies know too. You don't need blabbering children for that.

[Ceebee]

though I don't know where the source for the Raikage copying Minato comes from, but I could just have missed that.During the Sasuke v Raikage fight, we're told that the Raikage has a jutsu where he uses lightning chakra to stimulate his neural synapses and nervous system, giving him 'speed and reaction time comparable to that of the Fourth Hokage'.

On ANBU not being so leet, Itachi, while quite badass and strong, had a mission record of: 340 official missions in total: 53 D-rank, 152 C-rank, 134 B-rank, 0 A-rank, 1 S-rank.

Itachi was a genin for 3 years, graduating at 7 and passing the Chunin Exams 10. We know he was made an ANBU captain at 13, and shortly after, committed the massacre. I'm guessing the S-rank was the massacre/Akatsuki infiltration.


There are some rules I'd like to think that any competent writer would adhere to regarding Naruto:

Pre-timeskip Sasuke's vocab should not be reduced to "Hn." and "Dobe", likewise Naruto shouldn't scream "Teme" in reply.

Lee doesn't have some shitty sob story where his chakra coils were damaged at birth or he was dropped on his head (even though he probably was :awesome), or has some rare disease and as a can't use nin- or gen- jutsu. Infact he just sucks really badly at using it. Canon said he had no talent regarding them.

[Chengar Qordath]

HP Law made me laugh. Reading this thread past the first three posts will probably make me cry.
True, there's no way this thread can compete with the awesomeness that is Potter Law, though I would point out that Potter Law has been discussed, improved, and refined over the course of several years by the best minds on the board, while this thread has been up less than 24 hours. You can't really compare the two.

If nothing else, we've started a decent discussion of good and bad things in Naruto fanfiction. IMO, once people start articulating what they want out of Naruto fanfiction they'll be more inclined to actually do something about it (like writing their own).

[Clayton]

@Howdy: ANBU go through a rigorous training program. As such, I would assume them more skilled than the average school teacher. Also, it is very rare for someone to get picked up for ANBU as a Chuunin. If anyone were to get picked up for ANBU as Chuunin, it would've been Neji, amongst the rookie 9. He's a jounin, and we have never seen him running about with a Ninjato and a mask.

Back to the laws:

Obscure summoning contracts. It needs to stop. And no, I don't mean Naruto being able to summon, say, a fucking badass hawk or something. What I DO mean is him summoning mythical creatures or something so ridiculously overpowered it could take on Katsuyu, Gamabunta, and Madara with both hands tied behind it's back.

Hayate is sick. This is canon. He is not using his sickness to make himself look weaker. He is, however, using any underestimation to his advantage.

Naruto possessing the same knowledge as the reader. He is not omniscient. He will not suddenly realize that the barrier the Sound Four sets up is lethal and make the random ANBU not die.

[Kensington]

Bleach Maxim: For fuck's sake, don't crossover the Bleach and Naruto storylines. Every single damn time I read one of these fics, it starts off with Naruto dying and all of a sudden I'm reading a rewrite of Bleach canon with Naruto inserted. That is not a Naruto crossover. It's a Bleach story with an OC named Naruto who will inevitably end up sexing one of the women of Bleach.

[Clayton]

Bleach Maxim: For fuck's sake, don't crossover the Bleach and Naruto storylines. Every single damn time I read one of these fics, it starts off with Naruto dying and all of a sudden I'm reading a rewrite of Bleach canon with Naruto inserted. That is not a Naruto crossover. It's a Bleach story with an OC named Naruto who will inevitably end up sexing one of the women of Bleach.

I believe I have read a single story where they did a crossover of the Bleach and Naruto storylines and it was done WELL. Of course, it didn't involve Naruto dying. iirc, after Orochimaru hit Naruto with the five-point elemental seal, somehow the memories of Kisuke Urahara were in Naruto's head, and he could use Benihime. Was a meh story, and it hasn't been continued in a while, but for the area it's in it's pretty good. I'll try and hunt it down so I can provide a link.

edit: Found it. http://www.fanfiction.net/s/4197439/1/Crimson_Edge

[Kensington]

I believe I have read a single story where they did a crossover of the Bleach and Naruto storylines and it was done WELL. Of course, it didn't involve Naruto dying. iirc, after Orochimaru hit Naruto with the five-point elemental seal, somehow the memories of Kisuke Urahara were in Naruto's head, and he could use Benihime. Was a meh story, and it hasn't been continued in a while, but for the area it's in it's pretty good. I'll try and hunt it down so I can provide a link.

edit: Found it. http://www.fanfiction.net/s/4197439/1/Crimson_Edge

Well, getting technical, Crimson Edge to my knowledge doesn't cross over the Bleach and Naruto storylines, therefore it doesn't invoke the Bleach Maxim. All it does is insert a few Bleach elements into the Naruto storyline. Which is why I like that story and have it in my favorites tab on ff.net.

[Chime??]

Basically this:

1. If you are thinking of writing Naruto fanfiction: simply don't.

I don't think we can create a law. Canon is less salvageable with every new chapter and people will abuse whatever cliches they want to anyway.

There are very few completed Naruto stories, much less than HP. Many good Naruto authors have yet to finish a significant story, most end prematurely or halfway through. Off the top of my head, I can't think of any good stories that have been completed within the last year (other than perhaps LT2000's story - which technically only had an ending for part 1, which doesn't count in my book :P). We don't need to make it harder by creating some complex and impossible code of honor.

[Clayton]

Despite Chime's advice, I believe I have thought of one that can and SHOULD be applied to any fanfiction you decide to write.

D Rank Missions. They are not always Catch Tora The Cat. You have an imagination, please use it to come up with something. It doesn't have to be intricate. Hell, go with a simple babysitting duty for a few hours. D Rank Missions are, in essence, chores. As such, you can probably use past experience with your own chores to get an idea for what you want the Genin to do.

[Wildfeather]

Some stress at home maybe me jump on the computer and read this thread, and I honestly got annoyed with that way everyone is numbering. If we're going to attempt to make this a serious thread, it'd help if we get the numbers at least in order.

Removed a few doubles, * are new laws I think we may need to review, and rework or remove. Cut the list down from 74 to 59 though, And i may have missed a few double.

1.The villagers of Konoha didn't particularly like or trust Naruto for much of his childhood due to his jinchuriki status, and he didn't have any real friends as a child. This should not be exaggerated into "Everyone in Konoha regularly joins massive mobs of angry citizens formed for the express purpose of beating Naruto to death."

2. Anyone who writes a High School Alternate Universe fic has failed as a human being.

3. Naruto does not have a secret hidden bloodline which is far stronger than any other bloodline and/or is a combination of every existing bloodline.

4. The Kyuubi is a Demon Fox, whose only goal is to be free of Naruto; it does not care about any of Naruto's suffering or happiness, and it does not want to be his father/mother/best friend/love interest. The Fox does want Naruto alive until it gets free, but that's it.



The Kyuubi, in all likelihood, is an 'it'. If it absolutely must have a gender, it is male.
Under no circumstances is the Kyubbi going to seriously refer too Naruto as kit/kitling/pup or any variation there of, if he does indeed do so it should immediatley set off warning bells with Naruto that something is terribly wrong and the demon is plotting something.
He also will not refer to Naruto's love interest as a vixen, nor will the Fox encourage Naruto to mate with her at the soonest possible opportunity. The Nine-Tailed Fox is an ancient and powerful demon, and does not care about Naruto's love life.


5. Gratuitous Japanese impresses nobody. Since the source material is a manga/anime some bits of Japanese are inoffensive and even useful, but don't go overboard. Nobody wants to learn Japanese just to be able to read your fanfic.



Naruto does not need to end every line of written dialogue with "Believe it" or the Japanese equivalent of "Dattebayo." The fact that this term shows up so much in the Japanese version is a result of that language's unique oddities, and trying to carry it over to English is both pointless and annoying.
The people responsible for dubbing the anime should have figured that out a lot sooner than they did.


6. Hinata is not secretly hiding incredible skills that make her capable of taking on Jounin or the entire Rookie 9 beneath her meek nature, she's simply a moderately skilled ninja who happens to be very shy.


7. Stop using the phrase "Precious People" so damned much, Naruto doesn't and you shouldn't either, its fucking irritating.

8. The Third Hokage is a military dictator in the simplest of terms while he didn't pamper Naruto he certainly wasn't blackmailed into letting him get beat.

9. The scrolls from his parents detailing the ancient forgotten super techniques of both of their clans which can beat any bloodline, it needs to stop, its just bad.

10. While Sakura does have more than a couple of issues she is a semi-rational human being that is not going to literally attempt to murder Naruto because he messed Sasuke's hair up.

11. Jounin, ANBU, and whatever veteran Shinobi are NOT idiots.



Kakashi is not mentally retarded, nor is Jiraiya. Each has an exaggerated fascination with pornography and sex that is consistent with a universe where accomplished shinobi get knocked out by nosebleeds upon seeing a nude female.
If possible, pretend that the whole nosebleed thing doesn't exist.
Naruto's hyperactivity and thickness should not be mistaken for severe ADD and mental retardation; he can be intelligent and focused when things get serious. By the same token, Shikamaru's apathy, Choji's gluttony, Jiraiya's perversity, and other similar character flaws do not impede the character's ability to function as a ninja.
Shinobi are not samurai, there is no honor. They don't blatantly go off telling whatever citizen they come across that they are a ninja from such and such. They will use whatever advantage trick and/or cheat they have to best there opponent.


12. The nine-tailed fox is an immortal chakra entity of unfathomable power. As such, its answer to being continually called "Fuzzbutt," "Furball," or any other such inanity shall be to kill its host with fire.

13. Canon Naruto can't handle a relationship with one woman. Giving him a harem is just plain silly.

14. If your story spontaneously retcons the Naruto universe in order to make Samurai and Monks > Ninja, you shouldn't be allowed near a keyboard. I'm looking at you, Perfect Lionheart.

16. Naruto and Sasuke both know which are their "in" holes and which are their "out" holes. They don't get them confused. Moreover, though they shared a kiss in canon, it was enough to convince them that they weren't destined to be the other's snuggle muffin.

17. Anko portrayed as "violent sex addict who trains Naruto via torture" was on the way to becoming cliché when LT2000 did it. There's no excuse to use this trope now.



*Corollary to #6: Unless you're LT2000.


18. Cutesy Naruto-falling-for-Hinata romance with lots of stammering and emoangst and blushing: no, just... no.

*19. Haku is not a girl

20. Naruto does not have fox ears, a tail, claws, or fox summons, Naruto is not Inuyasha.

21. Naruto has not been waring a 'Mask' of happiness and stupidity since he could talk to hide his terrible terrible inner anguish. He is not calculating, cool headed, or super smart, in conclusion he not secretly a blond Sauske.

22. Sauske is not going to wake up one day and decide he is in love with Sakura, if it ever happens it will be seriously slow going.

23. Sweat drops, falling over suddenly, sudden sunsets behind Gai and 'nice guy poses' should not be included in written fanfiction. Ever.

24. Kakishi and Iruka are not a secret couple.

25. If you are not a native English speaker, don't use Babelfish translations for your fic.



If you are a native English speaker but spell at a 2nd grade level, do not write your fic.




27.Kyubbi does not have some amazing power to travel Naruto back in time, if he had he would not be stuck in the seal.

*28.Itachi is rutless killer, a psycopath regardless of what the manga says.

29.Keep it Naruto centric! We dont care if Sakura is fucking the entire Akatsuki.

30.Pein is God. That is all.

31. Anime and Manga are not strictly realistic in their depictions of characters, especially when things are being played for laughs. Sakura does not beat Naruto half to death every time he gets on her nerves, killer nosebleeds are not the actual reaction to the Sexy Jutsu, Lee's eyes do not literally catch on fire when he gets excited, etc.

32. The fact that Orochimaru has a strong pedophile vibe to him does not excuse actually portraying him as such in graphic detail.

33. Sasuke's brooding exterior does not conceal a deeply loving romantic soul just waiting for the right woman to unlock his heart, it conceals a revenge-obsessed, power-hungry, budding sociopath.

34. Stick with canon techniques. If you have to invent one, don't use katakana-English dictionaries, just say the technique name in English. Or make it a bloodline. Keep techniques simple, while we're at it. We don't need a technique which makes a nuclear explosion, summons people from the future, et cetera. Naruto can have interesting techniques without having to make up new ones.

35. Certain canon events can and should be ignored: the Akatsuki are not a bunch of people pretending to be powerful, they actually are, really. If a young Naruto were to fight one without using the Kyuubi he'd lose, badly. Like, in a couple of seconds.

36. The use of animals to represent characters is tired (Fox, Dog, Snake) either as nicknames or as 'secret messages' or 'prophecies'.

37. If Naruto is to be kidnapped or run away from Konoha, it should be under very special circumstances (such as political chaos). It should not be something easily accomplished. If Naruto is tried and found guilty for some kind of crime, it's a death sentence, he will not be 'exiled.'

38. Naruto's "special bond" with Gaara is not to be seen as room for homosexuality. It is a close friendship born out of similar childhoods, and Naruto being the first person to accept him. That is all.

*39. When in battle, a ninja of higher caliber than their opponent shouldn't lose. If they do lose, it is because they either a) are outnumbered severely or b) have seriously underestimated their opponent.

*40. Having a bloodline does not make you all-powerful. It does, however, make you an arrogant douche.

*41. No ninja should ever have skill equal to a demon, unless it is two-tailed or below, and even then, you are pushing it.




Ninja are not moving WMDs, unless they are jinchuuriki or know the Hirashin No Jutsu. As such, if Konoha is at war, people should die. They should not be rendered immortal if Naruto knows them.


42. Contrary to popular belief, the Hokage should not be rendered immobile by mounds of paperwork. If they are the strongest ninja in the village, it stands to reason that they also possess intelligence, therefore it would occur to them to use Kage Bunshin to get the paperwork done.

43. Minato did not fuck up the seal. If Jiraiya admits that Minato was better at sealing than he is, you're pretty fucking assured that the man knew what the fuck he was doing.

44. Naruto is leaps and bounds ahead of the rest of the rookie 9. He should not be having a somewhat fair fight against anyone that isn't named Sakura or Sasuke.

*45. Obey canon. If you're retconning canon to fit your situation, make it plausible. For instance, Jiraiya taking Naruto with him when he left. Unlikely, but plausible.

46. In part 1, Sakura is a useless fangirl. Unless Kakashi decides to seriously involve himself in their training, which he probably won't, Sakura will remain such until Tsunade becomes the Hokage.



Inner Sakura is the repressed emotions and desires of a teenaged girl with confidence issues, not a secret ultra-powerful bloodline that boosts Sakura up to Naruto and Sasuke's power level or beyond.


47. Any and all jokes involving a personal quirk of someone from canon have been done to death. If you absolutely have to do it, please make it short. We've seen it done before.


48. Naruto is an only child. He would have discovered any relatives by now.



In all likelihood, Kushina is dead. Uzu No Kuni is a wasteland. Stop with the fanfic where she comes back or Naruto finds his entire family.
Naruto does not possess a bloodline. He's a jinchuuriki and the child of the Yondaime Hokage. It's plausible for him to be awesome without a bloodline.


*49. Minato probably didn't have time to factor in a few things, like Jiraiya weakening his seal, with the immortal being attacking his village. As such, the seal degrading over time is pretty likely.

*50. The seal was designed so that when Naruto dies, so does the Kyuubi. That is all. No amount of attacking the seal will release it.

*51. If Naruto travels to Iwa or Kumo, he will be attacked by the ninja there because he looks like Minato.

52. The Naruto-verse is both backwards and modern. It is also Japanese. If your characters seem more American than Japanese, you're doing it wrong.



The currency of the Shinobi World is Ryo.


53. Characters have established personalities. If Jiraiya stops being a pervert, something serious is happening. This should not occur on a whim of the character.

54. If your name is not Naruto, and you are his age, you should not know about the Kyuubi.


*55. Iruka is the most powerful being. Ever. If he stopped Naruto from becoming another Gaara, he must by godly.

56. If you really want a Akatsuki!Naruto story, then for Christ's sake don't make Akatsuki the good guys.

57. AU stories where Naruto is picked up and raised by someone who does not belong in the Naruto-verse are stupid and should not be done. Yes, I am looking at you, DMC/Naruto crossovers.



Just because it's awesome by itself does not mean it belongs in the Naruto-verse.


*58. If Naruto becomes something he is not, there had better be some serious shit going down.

59. It is perfectly acceptable to alter the graduating age of the Academy. This would better prepare them for their ninja careers. It is, however, not perfectly acceptable, for a five-year-old Naruto to kill a man and walk away whistling Baby I Love Your Way.



There is no remotely plausible way a 12 year-old Naruto can wield Zabuza's sword.

[whateveritis12]

@Howdy

Kishi has come out and stated that Minato was the current strongest out of all the characters that were dead (this was around the Pain fight) but there are a couple people who could defeat him. I'm guessing those couple people would be Pain and Madara. Madara because we have no clue how exactly anyone will be able to touch him (because if he hasn't wanted to be touched he hasn't been) and Pain because we don't know the extent of Minato's skills (other than he was the most bad ass of Konoha's bad asses) and I find it hard for anyone to be able to defeat the 6 paths without being able to do what Naruto does and makes things even with his clones.

[Moloch]

Madara got curbstomped by the First Hokage.

Yondaime was strongest out of all the dead characters.

First Hokage is dead.


Yondaime > Madara.


Not much I can say about the Pain though.

[Chime??]

Wildfeather, it might be better to use outline structuring. Having all numbers looks a little awkward.

I
A.
1.

But good work organizing that mess :P

[Ceebee]

Saying junk like Minato could be beaten by Pain is pointless. It's all extrapolating and theory crafting. Though Pain has been around for 15 extra years, sure he'd probably give Minato a good run for his money; if Minato was suddenly resurrected or whatever.

Not enough information has been (or ever will be) provided that allows reasonable conclusions could be drawn about exactly how strong Minato was, or how much stronger he would have gotten as time went on.

That said, ~20 year old Minato v ~20 year old Pain (or would he still be Nagato?) would probably be a convincing win for Minato.

[Murton]

Also, The Third > The first, second and Orochimaru all at once kind of.

[Random Shinobi]

Also, The Third > The first, second and Orochimaru all at once kind of.
Um... No. Sandaime lost that match and it's clear that the former Hokages were only shadows of themselves.

[Hashasheen]

Um... No. Sandaime lost that match and it's clear that the former Hokages were only shadows of themselves.
... What the fuck have you been watching? Sandaime nearly won the match by defeating two former Kages of S-rank abilties and then crippled a third. No where is it stated that the two Hokage's are shadows of themselves. Heck it's the opposite, considering now whatever damage they get is irrelevant.

[Chengar Qordath]

... What the fuck have you been watching? Sandaime nearly won the match by defeating two former Kages of S-rank abilties and then crippled a third. No where is it stated that the two Hokage's are shadows of themselves. Heck it's the opposite, considering now whatever damage they get is irrelevant.
Not to mention that during the battle it is repeatedly stated that the Third Hokage is a shadow of his former strength at this point; back in his prime he must have been terrifying.

[Hashasheen]

Not to mention that during the battle it is repeatedly stated that the Third Hokage is a shadow of his former strength at this point; back in his prime he must have been terrifying.
This. As far as I'm concerned here's the S-levels:
0. Sage of the Six Paths
1. Sandaime Hokage, Pain, Jiriaya, Uchiha Itachi
2. Yondaime Hokage, Uchiha Madara, Uzumaki Naruto, Tsuchikage, Hanzo,Raikage, Killer Bee, Hatake Sakumo, Yondaime Kazekage.
3. Kakazu, Deidra, Hatake Kakashi, Shodai and Nidaime Hokage, Tsunade, Orochimaru, Zetsu, Kisame, Sasori, Uchiha Sasuke, Sandaime Kazekage

[Kensington]

This. As far as I'm concerned here's the S-levels:
1. Sandaime Hokage, Pain
2. Yondaime Hokage, Uchiha Madara, Uzumaki Naruto, Tsuchikage, Hanzo,Raikage, Killer Bee
3. Kakazu, Deidra, Hatake Kakashi, Shodai and Nidaime Hokage, Tsunade, Orochimaru, Zetsu, Kisame, Sasori.

You forgot:

0. Uchiha Sasuke.

You just know that Kishimoto will reveal some bullshit that Sasuke is some type of god reincarnated to mortal form in a few chapters.

[Bucks]

This. As far as I'm concerned here's the S-levels:
1. Sandaime Hokage, Pain
2. Yondaime Hokage, Uchiha Madara, Uzumaki Naruto, Tsuchikage, Hanzo,Raikage, Killer Bee
3. Kakazu, Deidra, Hatake Kakashi, Shodai and Nidaime Hokage, Tsunade, Orochimaru, Zetsu, Kisame, Sasori.

Except, the Shodai beat Madara.

*prepares for the shit storm.

Naruto isn't quite as strong as Minato, Madara and Bee and the Raikage or any other kage for that matter, yes even Tsunade.

[LT2000]

You have an S-Rank list that doesn't have Itachi on it? Or Jiraiya? Wut? And Naruto is the single most powerful ninja in the canon universe now. Or were you not watching when he defeated Pain?

[Ragon]

This. As far as I'm concerned here's the S-levels:
1. Sandaime Hokage, Pain
2. Yondaime Hokage, Uchiha Madara, Uzumaki Naruto, Tsuchikage, Hanzo,Raikage, Killer Bee
3. Kakazu, Deidra, Hatake Kakashi, Shodai and Nidaime Hokage, Tsunade, Orochimaru, Zetsu, Kisame, Sasori.

Itachi? And Pain says he would have never beat Jiraiya if he had know about Pain's secret. So how would Jiraiya not atleast be considered in league with Pain?

[Redeye]

It's funny how canon Naruto violates or will end up violating like half of these laws.

[Hashasheen]

Except, the Shodai beat Madara.

*prepares for the shit storm.

Naruto isn't quite as strong as Minato, Madara and Bee and the Raikage or any other kage for that matter, yes even Tsunade.
Madara's had a hundred years to improve. As for Naruto not being as strong as any of the others, I point you to his battle with Pein, where he preformed rather admirably.
You have an S-Rank list that doesn't have Itachi on it? Or Jiraiya? Wut? Edited .:o

And Naruto is the single most powerful ninja in the canon universe now. Or were you not watching when he defeated Pain?
Half the people on that list were dead when he faced Pein. He's powerful in his own right, but he's also gained some prestige by being alive.

Itachi? And Pain says he would have never beat Jiraiya if he had know about Pain's secret. So how would Jiraiya not atleast be considered in league with Pain? Completly forgot about them, added. :o

[whateveritis12]

Itachi isn't a top tiered S-Class nin.

Top should be Minato, Nagato/Pain, Madara, and Hiruzen (with the possibility of Hashirama).
2nd tier would include Naruto, Kisame, Itachi, Kira, Jiraiya and whoever else.

The top tier are the once in a generation ninja, ninjas that have the possibility of receiving the SS class ranking that Minato received in the war with Iwa. Out of everyone still alive in the manga now (regardless of author prerogative) I think Naruto is the only that could move up into the top tier.

[Ragon]

Itachi isn't a top tiered S-Class nin.

Top should be Minato, Nagato/Pain, Madara, and Hiruzen (with the possibility of Hashirama).
2nd tier would include Naruto, Kisame, Itachi, Kira, Jiraiya and whoever else.

The top tier are the once in a generation ninja, ninjas that have the possibility of receiving the SS class ranking that Minato received in the war with Iwa. Out of everyone still alive in the manga now (regardless of author prerogative) I think Naruto is the only that could move up into the top tier.

I would say Jiraiya would be the once in a generation ninja of his generation. And Kakashi or Itachi would be for theirs. Im going with the idea that although Kakashi is a few years older they would be the same generation.

Itachi kicked the ass of anyone stupid enough to mess with him until Sasuke and then he more or less let Sasuke kill him. Not to mention the fact that he was slowly dying during all this.

[Clayton]

Sakumo Hatake needs to be added, top tier. He was strong enough to be one of Hiruzen's most trusted advisors, as well as being strong enough to take on all three Sannin at once when they were younger. He created Kakashi's chakra-saber (which I want to see used, dammit) and is probably at least partly the reason why the Leaf won the Second Shinobi War.

[Necrule Paen]

And the Sage of the Six Paths is above everyone. He singlehandedly defeated the Ten Tails, which is a being thewith sum of all of the chakra of the 9 and possessed the Sharingan with all of the Hax powers that implies, and sealed it inside of him. He invented the hand seals for ninjutsu apparently from nothing. He made the fucking moon and on his death bed,when he was at his weakest, managed to split up the ten tails into 9 distinct personas of incredible power.

The guy is on a tier all by himself and the next two tiers are vacant because he was that badass.

[Wildfeather]

Chime?? I don't know how to do the ABC instead of 123 thing. If you could tell me, or direct me to a place in which I could research the codes this forums use, i'd probably rearrange the list to be more convenient.

P.S. You all suck, I went through the effort to mess with the list and no one is even using it. Bastards.

[Lord Eressar]

And the Sage of the Six Paths is above everyone. He singlehandedly defeated the Ten Tails, which is a being thewith sum of all of the chakra of the 9 and possessed the Sharingan with all of the Hax powers that implies, and sealed it inside of him.

Actually, he couldn't defeat it that's why he had to seal it; he didn't have the sharingan, it was the rinnegan. I think the only reason he could divide its power was because of the rinnegan's ability by the way.

[Necrule Paen]

The ten tails had the sharingan, you do know how clauses work don't you? I consider sealing it, defeating it. Although that post did make it look like I thought the two separate things.

[Lord Eressar]

The ten tails had the sharingan, you do know how clauses work don't you? I consider sealing it, defeating it. Although that post did make it look like I thought the two separate things.

My mistake then, by it did look like you were severely overestimating him.

[Bucks]

Madara's had a hundred years to improve. As for Naruto not being as strong as any of the others, I point you to his battle with Pein, where he preformed rather admirably.

Madara says otherwise (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/467/10/).

Naruto is strong, but to say that he can beat Pein without the haxxes he used, not including sage mode, though I really should? If Pein wanted to kill him he would have done when he had him before Hinata interrupted and Naruto went Kyuubi.

[Howdy]

2. Killer Bee is the manliest man in the universe. Even nasty, pointy, gluttonous implements of death are putty in his hands.

[Random Shinobi]

... What the fuck have you been watching? Sandaime nearly won the match by defeating two former Kages of S-rank abilties and then crippled a third. No where is it stated that the two Hokage's are shadows of themselves. Heck it's the opposite, considering now whatever damage they get is irrelevant.
Sandaime died, Orochimaru didn't. I think that makes it clear who won. And Shodai and Nidaime were not at their full strength because they didn't instantly slaughter Sandaime. Remember, Shodai defeated Madara and was the strongest shinobi of his time.

[Ragon]

Madara says otherwise (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/467/10/).

Naruto is strong, but to say that he can beat Pein without the haxxes he used, not including sage mode, though I really should? If Pein wanted to kill him he would have done when he had him before Hinata interrupted and Naruto went Kyuubi.

Yet despite trying to win, Pain is dead and Naruto is not only still kicking but kicking harder than ever.

[Howdy]

Sandaime died, Orochimaru didn't. I think that makes it clear who won. And Shodai and Nidaime were not at their full strength because they didn't instantly slaughter Sandaime. Remember, Shodai defeated Madara and was the strongest shinobi of his time.

"Of his time" being the operative phrase. He also died rather young, according to Tsunade.

And let's try to remember that, while Madara and Hashirama were the strongest ninja in the world "of their time," Madara was crippled in their fight and Hashirama passed away. The manga shows us that there are many ninja that would have been capable of beating "prime" Madara or "prime" Hashirama.

The difference is that Madara survived to create and master some seriously nasty space/time jutsu that make him a slippery bastard. He's admitted that his fighting strength is not currently that great, however.

If you're looking for a list of strongest characters mentioned in the manga, then any list that didn't start:

1. Rikudou Sennin
2. Nagato

Would be patently incorrect.


Having said that, I agree that zombie!Shodai and zombie!Nidaime were in no way as dangerous as they were in life. They mostly responded to Orochimaru's commands in his fight against Sarutobi, and acted as his puppets. Stripped of their intellect and creativity, all they could do was use a few powerful jutsu and throw a few fists. It was hardly an impressive showing.

[Clerith]

Hzzh, who the fuck are you to rain on my Naruto!fem!Kyuubi parade? Seriously, that pairing is made of win. So is Naruto sexing up an Oiroke Kage Bunshin. Chakra matrixes for the win, eh? ...for pointless smut.

Trying to compare who's stronger than who is kinda stupid in Naruto. You can do it in DB and 'power level' animes like Bleach, but in Naruto, pretty much everyone has their relatively unique combat style and techniques. That, and they're all mortal, fragile humans, a kunai to the throat (if it hits) will kill most people.

About annoying cliches - I've come to utterly despise the phrase 'Will of Fire'. It's being shoved down my throat so much it makes me want to cry.

[Aekiel]

If we're going to go with power levels, I'd probably lay them out something like this:

Top Tier: Rikudou Sennin, Nagato, Naruto, Minato, Sasuke (after his next inevitable power-up), Jiraiya.
Second Tier: Sarutobi Hiruzen, Orochimaru, Tsunade, Itachi, Kisame, Killer Bee, Sasuke (currently), Mizu/Tsuchi/Raikages.
Third Tier: Madara, Gaara, Shodai/Nidaime Hokages, Kakashi, Danzou, (Sharingan hax), the rest of Akatsuki (possibly excluding Konan).

The problem with Madara isn't that he's especially strong, it's that he's almost impossible to land a hit on, though if he became the Jyuubi Jinchuuriki he'd more than likely be unstoppable. Hell, that's the whole point of his Eye of the Moon plan; for him to become more than the 'shade of what he once was'. That, and to make everyone like him :p.

[Hashasheen]

Sandaime died, Orochimaru didn't. I think that makes it clear who won.
Orochimaru won a three on one fight, and barely at that. One on one, he would have gotten raped. Same with his battle against the Yondaime Kazekage. (added to the list)

Naruto is strong, but to say that he can beat Pein without the haxxes he used, not including sage mode, though I really should? If Pein wanted to kill him he would have done when he had him before Hinata interrupted and Naruto went Kyuubi.
... Everyone has haxxes in Narutoverse. You're not a ninja if you don't have something special up your sleeve. As for Pein versus Naruto, I said he preformed admirably, I didn't say he would have beaten him.

Edit:
S-rank tiers:

1. Sage of the Six Paths
2. Pain, Jiriaya, Uchiha Itachi
3. Sandaime Hokage, Yondaime Hokage, Uchiha Madara, Uzumaki Naruto, Tsuchikage, Hanzo,Raikage, Killer Bee, Hatake Sakumo, Yondaime Kazekage, Uchiha Sasuke,
4. Kakazu, Deidra, Hatake Kakashi, Shodai and Nidaime Hokage, Tsunade, Orochimaru, Zetsu, Kisame, Sasori, Sandaime Kazekage

Anybody I miss?

[Random Shinobi]

Orochimaru won a three on one fight, and barely at that. One on one, he would have gotten raped. Same with his battle against the Yondaime Kazekage. (added to the list)
No, it was one on one. The two Kages were just Orochimaru's jutsu. Not much different from ordinary Summon. Or are you saying that Naruto didn't defeat Nagato because he used Toads?

[NightSpy]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Naruto never defeated Pein. Sure, he gave some major ass kicking to each of his six paths, but you gotta remember that while Naruto was giving all he had to destroy him, Pein was trying to capture him to extract the Kyuubi.

Plus, Nagato had enough juice left to cast Resurrecting AoE +19 on Konoha even as fucked up as he seemed to be. Don't tell me he wouldn't be able to blow Naruto up while they talked if he wanted to.

[Clayton]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Naruto never defeated Pein. Sure, he gave some major ass kicking to each of his six paths, but you gotta remember that while Naruto was giving all he had to destroy him, Pein was trying to capture him to extract the Kyuubi.

Plus, Nagato had enough juice left to cast Resurrecting AoE +19 on Konoha even as fucked up as he seemed to be. Don't tell me he wouldn't be able to blow Naruto up while they talked if he wanted to.

This. Also, Shodai and Nidaime don't count as summons. Furthermore, it's pretty likely that Orochimaru didn't have full control while they fought. He probably had to focus most, if not all, of his attention on Sarutobi. This would mean that Orochimaru"s seal makes the sealed body recognise him as an ally, and anybody fighting him an enemy. Also, Sarutobi isn't called the God of Shinobi for nothing.

[Howdy]

This. Also, Shodai and Nidaime don't count as summons. Furthermore, it's pretty likely that Orochimaru didn't have full control while they fought. He probably had to focus most, if not all, of his attention on Sarutobi. This would mean that Orochimaru"s seal makes the sealed body recognise him as an ally, and anybody fighting him an enemy. Also, Sarutobi isn't called the God of Shinobi for nothing.

Only Orochimaru called him that, and he was patronizing him.

I don't think that this is the right thread for Powah Levelz! discussion, but since I don't like it and it's already been sidetracked, I'll say that those of you who put Sarutobi in the "top tier" are probably wrong. All of his hype is by word of mouth, and very little of it is objective.

He's called the "Greatest Hokage" by a chuunin who didn't know any of the others. He's called the "God of Shinobi" by Orochimaru while he was being mocked. He's called the "Strongest Kage" by Kabuto, who not only doesn't know any better but is likely not taking his age into account properly.

On the other hand, we have no feats that he's actually accomplished. We never hear the he defeated X or conquered Y. In fact, aside from fighting a few big wars that apparently all ended in stalemate, the only feather in his cap is being a badass teacher.

Now take a look at a guy like Pain, before we saw him fight. He was all hype too, but he had actual feats to his name. He killed Hanzou, who defeated all of the Sannin at once. He conquered an entire nation on his own without a whisper of his existence getting out to other countries.

That's real hype that can be used to rank a guy, if you're so inclined.

Even Hashirama was explicitly said to be the strongest ninja in the world in his day by his greatest enemy, and given that he captured all or most of the bijuu and founded the first ninja village, I'm inclined to accept that as the truth. Again, Hashirama has actual feats to his name.

Sarutobi was very, very powerful and was likely once the strongest or one of the strongest ninja in the world, but please don't ever rank him past a guy like Minato - who we know surpassed him in power and in skill with ninjutsu - based simply on hearsay. Considering his fighting style, I'd say that there are a few Akatsuki who could have defeated him in his younger days.

[X Kronos X8]

S Rank means S Rank. There is no SS and SSS. S Rank is the final level.

[Ceebee]

S Rank means S Rank. There is no SS and SSS. S Rank is the final level.Perhaps not officially, but I feel it has some kind of unofficial merit.

To me, to give someone a S-rank means that they will unequivocally crush 99% of opponents. Doesn't matter if you're a reasonably skilled Jounin or whatever. Come across one of these guys and if they want you dead, you are dead. But even among their S-rank peers, there are still some S-rankers that would demolish the others.

Deidara, I believe was S-rank, as thats all Akatsuki took into their ranks. But I could never imagine him doing anything to someone like Jiraiya or Pain.

S-rank or SS-rank or whatever, it's normally (even in this thread) explained at low, mid and top tier S-rank.

[Ragon]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Naruto never defeated Pein. Sure, he gave some major ass kicking to each of his six paths, but you gotta remember that while Naruto was giving all he had to destroy him, Pein was trying to capture him to extract the Kyuubi.

Plus, Nagato had enough juice left to cast Resurrecting AoE +19 on Konoha even as fucked up as he seemed to be. Don't tell me he wouldn't be able to blow Naruto up while they talked if he wanted to.

Naruto might not have actually killed him, but I doubt Pain was in any shape to get out of the way if Naruto used Rasenshuriken.

[Chengar Qordath]

Third Tier: ... the rest of Akatsuki (possibly excluding Konan).
IMO Konan's not really weaker than the rest of the Akatsuki, it's just that we've only seen her in one fight, and that was against Jiriaya who just about everyone agrees had a massive power advantage over her, not to mention Jiriaya already knew the strengths/weaknesses of her Paper Style. Going up against someone who's stronger than you and knows most your tricks is a bad thing in the Ninja world; any other opponent would have allowed her to give a better showing.

Of course, that will remain a theoretical arguement unless she actually turns up again at some point, which almost certainly won't happen.

[Verse of Darkness]

To me rank is just a pointer on how dangerous ninja A could be to a mission if shinobi B met while trying to complete a mission.

[Aekiel]

IMO Konan's not really weaker than the rest of the Akatsuki, it's just that we've only seen her in one fight, and that was against Jiriaya who just about everyone agrees had a massive power advantage over her, not to mention Jiriaya already knew the strengths/weaknesses of her Paper Style. Going up against someone who's stronger than you and knows most your tricks is a bad thing in the Ninja world; any other opponent would have allowed her to give a better showing.

Of course, that will remain a theoretical arguement unless she actually turns up again at some point, which almost certainly won't happen.

I actually meant she may be boosted up a level, but I guess I didn't make that clear. We've seen very little of her outside of talking and that one fight (in which she was merely the distraction until Pein showed up), so we don't have an accurate way to rate her skills.

[NightSpy]

Naruto might not have actually killed him, but I doubt Pain was in any shape to get out of the way if Naruto used Rasenshuriken.

No, no, no. Konan said it herself, Nagato is the 7th path and he exists outside life and death. In fact, she hints he only died when bringing everyone back due being nearly out of chakra.

Don't forget, Naruto used up all his Rasenshuriken to defeat the 6 first ones, and couldn't use another for some time. Nagato however, still had enough juice to bring those death back to life. It would make sense he was still able to kill everyone nearby with an opposite technique, or at least just Naruto.

Naruto also has bring up two bunshin to create the Rasenshuriken, and then manipulate the chakra into the technique, while Nagato only used a single handseal.

tl;dr Naruto strength lies with his ability to make every major bad-ass he comes across into an ally. Heck, even zabuza joined up for a few seconds to take down gato's men. In a kill or be killed battle with no time for talking, Nagato would wipe the floor with him.

Thus, I give my full support to make rule 1: Pein is god.

[Ragon]

If Pein is god then what does that make Jiraiya?

Pein's exact words:"If we hadnt kept our secret, we would have never won. I can give you no higher praise than that my former teacher."

[Chengar Qordath]

I actually meant she may be boosted up a level, but I guess I didn't make that clear. We've seen very little of her outside of talking and that one fight (in which she was merely the distraction until Pein showed up), so we don't have an accurate way to rate her skills.
Sorry for the misinterpretation then; like you said, it's hard to get a good measure of Konan's power level from what little we've seen of her fighting ability. However, it certainly seems like her Paper Style has a lot of potential to be really nasty if she's smart about using it (which one would assume she is).

[Aekiel]

Sorry for the misinterpretation then; like you said, it's hard to get a good measure of Konan's power level from what little we've seen of her fighting ability. However, it certainly seems like her Paper Style has a lot of potential to be really nasty if she's smart about using it (which one would assume she is).

Takes the phrase 'Death by a thousand papercuts' to the extreme, doesn't it? :p

[Chengar Qordath]

Takes the phrase 'Death by a thousand papercuts' to the extreme, doesn't it? :p
Quite. Given what we've seen of her combat style, she could slowly papercut her opponents to death while being almost impossible to score a hit on with her paper teleportation and/or paper wings.

[whateveritis12]

Konan is good for 2 things. Taking care of Nagato, and as a poor man's version of Zetsu. I think her greatest strengths would be in the spying area. She can break her entire body into paper, and her ability seems like it's only drawback would be when she's wet and cannot break apart into paper.

It's really too bad that Kishi seems to have a problem with writing females and their fighting abilities lately. Really the last good fight that involved a female in a starring role would've been the Sasori vs. Sakura/Chiyo fight way in the beginning of pt. 2. Though the way things are looking, Sakura might have another fight at the end of her looking for Sasuke thing that she's doing now.

[Chengar Qordath]

It's really too bad that Kishi seems to have a problem with writing females and their fighting abilities lately. Really the last good fight that involved a female in a starring role would've been the Sasori vs. Sakura/Chiyo fight way in the beginning of pt. 2. Though the way things are looking, Sakura might have another fight at the end of her looking for Sasuke thing that she's doing now.
The series has generally suffered from a lack of strong female characters; Temari and Tsunade are really the only characters who are consistently portrayed as effective combatants in the manga (the anime, to its credit, has tried to build up the combat reps of most the female characters when doing filler episodes).

Sakura probably has another fight coming up with her hunt for Sasuke, but I suspect it's going to end with her getting her ass kicked in order to send Naruto into a Sasuke-killing rage.

[LT2000]

Sakura probably has another fight coming up with her hunt for Sasuke, but I suspect it's going to end with her getting her ass kicked in order to send Naruto into a Sasuke-killing rage.

As it damned well should. Sasuke is leagues and leagues above Sakura in terms of skill at this point, and it'd be bullshit of the highest degree if she managed to go toe to toe with him considering how many S-Ranked ninja he's fought and defeated during Part II.

[Chengar Qordath]

As it damned well should. Sasuke is leagues and leagues above Sakura in terms of skill at this point, and it'd be bullshit of the highest degree if she managed to go toe to toe with him considering how many S-Ranked ninja he's fought and defeated during Part II.
True; at her current established skill level she's no match for Sasuke and there's no realistic way to make her one at this point. However, it is a bit disheartening that her main contribution to the final battle is going to be getting hurt to induce heroic rage Naruto; as with my earlier post, it's indicative of the general lack of strong female characters in the series.

[Ragon]

Not too many people I could see taking down Sasuke, Sakura isnt one of them. Aside from Naruto I dont see any of their peers doing anything more than getting their ass kicked.

[Clerith]

Not too many people I could see taking down Sasuke, Sakura isnt one of them. Aside from Naruto I dont see any of their peers doing anything more than getting their ass kicked.

Pretty much.

And about Konan, while we haven't seen her really fight, what we have seen of her doesn't really impress me. Her special ability is to turn into lots of paper. It's all we've seen, and considering how far she's taken it, I doubt that she has any other, high-powered technique. And let's face it, paper is pretty weak. Fire would completely wipe her. Water would slosh and slow her down. Wind would cut that paper into shreds. And I can't see that paper piercing any decent earth jutsu.

Sure, with her special ability she could kill most jounins, but someone like Kakashi would have quite a good chance of killing her. There's probably a reason why she's always next to Nagato and was never sent out to missions, as far as we know.

So, what do you think about Kisame now? I think he's surprisingly badass. His moving water bubble can be pretty damn hard to beat, and he's got massive field advantage there. If only that Samehada hadn't turned against him... sucks for the man, really.

[NightSpy]

It's funny how this seems to be turning into a Naruto Manga thread version 2.

[Aekiel]

Hey, I've just had a brilliant idea! The easiest way to make a Naruto Law thread is to go through canon and systematically note down every plot point and/or power-up Kishimoto uses. Voilà! We have our list.

/sarcasm

[Hashasheen]

As it damned well should. Sasuke is leagues and leagues above Sakura in terms of skill at this point, and it'd be bullshit of the highest degree if she managed to go toe to toe with him considering how many S-Ranked ninja he's fought and defeated during Part II.
She does have Lee and Kiba with her, those two aren't any slouches like Shikamaru.

Lee versus Sasuke round 2, amiright?:awesome

[Vylos]

Lee would get his backside handed to him, and very quickly. But I wouldn't mind seeing a proper Sasuke v. Gaara rematch. As to the original subject of the thread - it seems pretty much forgotten at this point.:)

[Chengar Qordath]

Lee would get his backside handed to him, and very quickly.
Depends; certainly normal Lee is no match for Sasuke, but if he opens all of his Inner Gates he might well be able to match or even beat Sasuke. Of course, opening all eight of the Inner Gates does mean Lee would die at the end of the fight, which kind of makes it hard to call that an unqualified win for Lee.

As to the original subject of the thread - it seems pretty much forgotten at this point.:)
Pretty much, but as long as there's an interesting discussion going on I'm not bothered.

[Ragon]

Gaara has about as much chance as the rest. Not much at all.

[Chengar Qordath]

Gaara has about as much chance as the rest. Not much at all.
Gaara is kind of hard to classify at the moment; we don't know what his power level is like now that he's lost the Ichibi, but he still appears to be at around the same level as the other Kages and handled himself well enough during Sasuke's attack on the Kage summit. Gaara probably would lose in an all-out one-on-one fight though; if nothing else he'd suffer from the fact that Sasuke already knows all of Gaara's tricks.

[LT2000]

We already know from canon that Sasuke's Chidori can easily break Gaara's sand defenses, and that was before all the refining he's done to the technique since that battle in the Chuunin Exams. Nevermind that Gaara no longer has Shukaku to play as a trump card and is probably as susceptible to the Sharingan's illusions as the next guy. Sasuke would probably defeat Gaara with little difficulty at this point.

[Howdy]

And about Konan, while we haven't seen her really fight, what we have seen of her doesn't really impress me. Her special ability is to turn into lots of paper. It's all we've seen, and considering how far she's taken it, I doubt that she has any other, high-powered technique. And let's face it, paper is pretty weak. Fire would completely wipe her. Water would slosh and slow her down. Wind would cut that paper into shreds. And I can't see that paper piercing any decent earth jutsu.

Sure, with her special ability she could kill most jounins, but someone like Kakashi would have quite a good chance of killing her. There's probably a reason why she's always next to Nagato and was never sent out to missions, as far as we know.

Lulz, what?

Have you read the manga?

Konan is one of three characters capable of true flight, and the only one who can do so unaided. That right there is enough to make her awesome.

And her paper is weak? Fire would own it? Did you forget that she easily blocked Jiraiya's fire jutsu with it? Water would weigh her down? Did you forget that Pain's summon used water to wash away the oil on her, and she immediately flew away?

Did you forget that she invaded Konoha alongside Pain and was effortlessly killing ninja just by suffocating them?

What is this garbage?

Konan is easily the character with the most untapped potential for an awesome fight in the entire manga right now. It would be a real shame if she didn't show up to help fight Madara as the new leader of Ame.

[LT2000]

Konan is one of three characters capable of true flight, and the only one who can do so unaided. That right there is enough to make her awesome.


Four by my count. CS2 Sasuke, Deidara, Sai and Konan. Might throw Temari in as a fifth, but I'm not entirely sure whether she can really propel herself on her fan as opposed to just gliding. I also seem to recall Gaara being able to do it in some fashion when he battled Deidara, though I certainly wouldn't count it as 'true' flight. Though I don't think we've seen him do it, I think it would also be a fair assumption that Juugo could sprout out curse wings similar to Sasuke's, were he so inclined.

[Howdy]

Four by my count. CS2 Sasuke, Deidara, Sai and Konan. Might throw Temari in as a fifth, but I'm not entirely sure whether she can really propel herself on her fan as opposed to just gliding. I also seem to recall Gaara being able to do it in some fashion when he battled Deidara, though I certainly wouldn't count it as 'true' flight. Though I don't think we've seen him do it, I think it would also be a fair assumption that Juugo could sprout out curse wings similar to Sasuke's, were he so inclined.

Eh, Sasuke couldn't fly so much as use his wings to increase his vertical jump. Otherwise he wouldn't have had an issue with the dragon.

And I had forgotten about Sai, so I guess we'll add him in there with Konan, Deidara, and Gaara.

[ReverseSide]

Okay, this thread seems to be derailing.

So, on topic:

Rule #? : Guns are better than swords. As such, an old, ancient jutsu lost to the sands of time isn't very likely to be better than a new, modern jutsu.

Rule #? + 1: References/allusions to concepts outside the Naruto world rarely work. For example, Communism vs. Democracy.

Addendum: unless you're Case13. Then, you can pretty much reference anything and still have people praise you.

[darklordcuddles]

1. Love does non instantly just appear if one charcter sees another and the next sentence they wont be sucking face.

2. Naruto at age 4 doesnt go on long speaches about power.

3. Real ninja battles shouldn't look like a battle between Superman and Captain Awsome. They will fight hand to hand but super amazing strenght and heat ray isnt normal. Its all about deception better killer will probaly win.

4. The few ninja we see in canon are not the only Konoha ninja. They would not survive with 30-40 ninja it is not possible. Also all the known ninjas dont have to be best of friends. There would probaly be different cliques.

5. There are other strong ninja besides Kakashi in Konoha. It would be impossible for there not to be other A and up class ninja especily if Konoha is known for making the strongest ninja.

[NightSpy]

Rule #? : Guns are better than swords. As such, an old, ancient jutsu lost to the sands of time isn't very likely to be better than a new, modern jutsu.


The Sage of the Six Paths created the moon with his ancient jutsu.

Do we have any canon-based timeline in Naruto? Konoha has been around for 4-5 generations(100years?) but exactly when was The Sage born to introduce the ninja techniques?

[whateveritis12]

I think Konoha was established around 60-70 years before canon started. Madara and Hashirama were probably in their 20s-30s when they had their fight at the VOTE (which might have been anywhere between 1-5 years after the village was founded) and probably died soon after that fight or in the first shinobi war. Tobirama took over and probably had a short reign (1-5 years) before he was probably killed. Sarutobi then took over and was in charge of the village until just after the end of the third shinobi war when he instated Minato (which was probably anywhere between 1-5 years before the Kyuubi, though I'm leaning towards the smaller number).

The Sage probably came about anywhere between 200-500 years before canon start (there needed to be enough time for people to forget about the fact that Senjus and Uchihas are related and for that knowledge to be only on the tablet that held their history IIRC).

[Aekiel]

3. Real ninja battles shouldn't look like a battle between Superman and Captain Awsome. They will fight hand to hand but super amazing strenght and heat ray isnt normal. Its all about deception better killer will probaly win.

If we look at canon, that's nowhere near true. The strongest character in the manga currently relies heavily on area of effect attacks and the fucking demon locked up inside his belly. The second strongest character in the manga decimated an entire hidden village with a jutus that literally turned it into a crater.

The strongest - hell, even the average - ninja in Naruto do not rely on stealth and cunning to do their work. They're more like battle mages with bushido than anything we might call a ninja. Naruto is to ninja as Twilight is to vampires, is the best way I can put it.

[Necrule Paen]

The Sage was probably around over a thousand years ago, one of the frog summons (Fukasaku?) thought the Sage was a myth and he is over 800 years old.

[Chengar Qordath]

If we look at canon, that's nowhere near true. The strongest character in the manga currently relies heavily on area of effect attacks and the fucking demon locked up inside his belly. The second strongest character in the manga decimated an entire hidden village with a jutus that literally turned it into a crater.

The strongest - hell, even the average - ninja in Naruto do not rely on stealth and cunning to do their work. They're more like battle mages with bushido than anything we might call a ninja. Naruto is to ninja as Twilight is to vampires, is the best way I can put it.
While you're right about everything else, I would sat that cunning does matter for ninja battles; being insanely good at planning ahead (Shikamaru) or having a talent for pulling out unexpected tricks and improvising (Naruto) can be a decisive advantage even in high-level fights.

[Krogan]

Okay, this thread seems to be derailing.

So, on topic:

Rule #? : Guns are better than swords. As such, an old, ancient jutsu lost to the sands of time isn't very likely to be better than a new, modern jutsu.

Rule #? + 1: References/allusions to concepts outside the Naruto world rarely work. For example, Communism vs. Democracy.

Addendum: unless you're Case13. Then, you can pretty much reference anything and still have people praise you.

Ive got to disagree with both of these, first funny thing about Naruto in my opinion really, the further you go back the stronger the ninjas are all the way back to the Rikudo Sennin who made the Moon, so Im fairly certain any ninja worth their salt would murder their mother for one of his personal battle techniques and hes about as old it gets in Naruto world.

Next if you know what your doing I don't see how those don't work in fiction. Its not like those are pop band references, they are forms of government that have been around for a long time now.

[Ragon]

While you're right about everything else, I would sat that cunning does matter for ninja battles; being insanely good at planning ahead (Shikamaru) or having a talent for pulling out unexpected tricks and improvising (Naruto) can be a decisive advantage even in high-level fights.


Cunning and making up shit as you go along play a huge part in battles. When Naruto beat Kakuzu it was because he realized the weakness of his Rasenshuriken along with Kakuzu's abilitys made it impossible to do things the normal way and adapted accordingly. When he fought Gaara the first time and stuck a shuriken up his ass, knowing he couldnt physically hurt Gaara himself at the time.

[Chaoticblues]

The Sage was probably around over a thousand years ago, one of the frog summons (Fukasaku?) thought the Sage was a myth and he is over 800 years old.

Definitely over a couple thousand years old. For how long did the Naruto world have a moon again?

[Clayton]

It's pretty much guaranteed that some old jutsu that no one's ever seen before will win the fight. And probably be stronger. The thing is, it's pretty fucking likely that when the Sage of the Six Paths made jutsu, he made them to kick some ass. What we have now is either derivatives of what he made or shortcuts. That being said, ancient jutsu x probably requires like 50 hand seals, so it's easier to make three and produce roughly the same effect.

Also, on the note of made-up jutsu. Yes, you can do it. This doesn't mean you should. If you're going to make up a jutsu, just go with an English name for it. Also, don't make your jutsu ridiculously overpowered. Chances are, Wind Jutsu X is not going to defeat Fire Jutsu Y.

Speaking of elemental jutsu, see the above. Each type is defeated by another for a reason. This means that your entirely wind-based Naruto would probably get curbstomped by a guy of equal level who was entirely fire-based. Change things up. Naruto went on a 2 and a half year training trip with Jiraiya. I doubt the only thing they got done was getting Naruto to be able to control Kyuubi to some extent. On the training trip, that much exposure to Jiraiya will not have Naruto returning to Konoha without having at least some of Jiraiya's personality shining through. It just isn't possible.

[Snarf]

Do you want to know he difference between this thread and Potter Law?

Wit, and Bio Plague. Without those two factors, threads such as these inevitably fail.

As this one already has.

[NightSpy]

Do you want to know he difference between this thread and Potter Law?

Wit, and Bio Plague. Without those two factors, threads such as these inevitably fail.

As this one already has.

Quoted for truth. I propose we rename this thread to " Variable Invariabilities in Naruto Fandom."

Yes, Crappy name.

Still, This thread got me back into Naruto Fanfics, so all I need is to find some worthwhile ones to read. (by the way, I accept private messages with all those guilty pleasures fics you've read and never had the guts to post here.)

[Palindrome]

I think Konoha was established around 60-70 years before canon started.

I found a time-line (http://forums.narutofan.com/showthread.php?t=12409) someone had made on the Naruto forums a long time ago; looks like you're right - sixty years.

--

Naruto is to ninja as Twilight is to vampires.

This should definitely be a rule, all by itself.

--

Canon is rather screwed up when it comes to logic, in many areas, and we ought to remember that when defining any rules; it makes no sense in canon - it makes no sense in fiction. But there's a problem with thinking like that: there's a difference between what makes a flashy animation good to watch and what makes a story good to read.

Ever find that authors who like to blow things up with large, flashy explosions seem to be aiming the whole thing at having it in a film, and having it in a book doesn't work too well? (Here's looking at you, Dan Brown) Well, my point is that regardless of what's awesome to look at, if you're writing a story then stick to what works well in stories - complex scenarios, dilemmas, solutions, emotions and reactions.

I don't care what canon is like, when you write you god-damned make sure that it's not dull as anything while trying to be flashy.

--

One thing that always irks me with Naruto stories is how everyone seems to get the impression that once a ninja has gone up in rank they are suddenly invulnerable to all those beneath them in rank.

They're still human, guys. Humans make mistakes - humans still die when pointy things are pushed into their throats.

A jounin, by all rights, is more skilled than a chuunin and a genin. Better suited for a leadership role, more experienced, stronger in many senses. But that doesn't mean they're invincible to their less-skilled peers.

--

Oh, and what is with everyone forgetting about chuunin? It seems like in every story that chuunin aren't taken seriously (no matter what canon thinks); 'chuunin' is an actual rank to be achieved, not just a mid-stage in between genin and jounin. Only the elite make it to jounin - most ninjas remain chuunin their lives, and that's perfectly fine. There need to be chuunin to make the village work, and not all of them do menial tasks or work as an academy instructor.

...Alright, so the last two were mostly just my rants at canon.

So, my two laws:

1) There's a difference between what makes a flashy animation good to watch and what makes a story good to read.

2) Canon should not always be god's law presiding over every little detail: if you can do it better, do so.

/long post

[Chengar Qordath]

I propose we rename this thread to " Variable Invariabilities in Naruto Fandom."

Yes, Crappy name.
No worse than the current one really; whatever this thread is, it isn't the Naruto version of Potter Law. With the benefit of hindsight, I'd rather have named it something like "Things to Avoid in Naruto Fanfiction."

1) There's a difference between what makes a flashy animation good to watch and what makes a story good to read.
That probably is the source of many issues with fanfiction from just about any non-literature medium; lots of writers can't translate from one media to another. There's a lot of potential for fanfiction that focuses on the sort things that tend to be neglected in Naruto because Anime/Manga just doesn't suit those kinds of stories.

Anime also tends to add complications for a lot writers since it includes lots of Japanese cultural input that fanfic writers don't always grasp; when the Naruto cast suddenly all start acting like Americans the results are rather jarring to say the least.

[Howdy]

Oh, and what is with everyone forgetting about chuunin? It seems like in every story that chuunin aren't taken seriously (no matter what canon thinks); 'chuunin' is an actual rank to be achieved, not just a mid-stage in between genin and jounin. Only the elite make it to jounin - most ninjas remain chuunin their lives, and that's perfectly fine. There need to be chuunin to make the village work, and not all of them do menial tasks or work as an academy instructor.

Chuunin Level - adj.
1. Possessing skills, power, knowledge, and experience equal to that of a chuunin.
2. Characterized as a nameless, faceless, throw-away character - often killed off-panel or as a means to express the formidable power of "real characters."
3. Cannon fodder.
ex. 1: "The chuunin level character Mizuki was defeated by a not-yet graduated academy student."
ex. 2: "By defeating a horde of fodder ninja without sustaining a single blow, Sasuke demonstrated that they possessed only chuunin level skills."
ex. 3: "Were he above mere chuunin level, the ANBU agent would never have attempted to jump through the Sound Four's defensive barrier."
ex. 4: "Relying on only their chuunin level abilities, the guards outside of Konoha's walls were helpless to prevent their off-panel deaths when faced with a single Path of Pain."

The only characters that possess the rank of chuunin but do not fall under the "chuunin level" category are the Rookies. All other chuunin are not worthy of mention (unless of course you're mentioning their uninspired deaths), or they exist in the story outside of fighter roles.

Does this address your concern?

[darklordcuddles]

Chuunin Level - adj.
1. Possessing skills, power, knowledge, and experience equal to that of a chuunin.
2. Characterized as a nameless, faceless, throw-away character - often killed off-panel or as a means to express the formidable power of "real characters."
3. Cannon fodder.
ex. 1: "The chuunin level character Mizuki was defeated by a not-yet graduated academy student."
ex. 2: "By defeating a horde of fodder ninja without sustaining a single blow, Sasuke demonstrated that they possessed only chuunin level skills."
ex. 3: "Were he above mere chuunin level, the ANBU agent would never have attempted to jump through the Sound Four's defensive barrier."
ex. 4: "Relying on only their chuunin level abilities, the guards outside of Konoha's walls were helpless to prevent their off-panel deaths when faced with a single Path of Pain."


Also dont forget the verb form.
Chuunined
Example in a sentenced.
"Where did shiro go?"
"Oh he was chuunined by an actual character."

[whateveritis12]

"Oh he was chuunined by an actual character."

That makes it sound kind of dirty.

[Hashasheen]

While you're right about everything else, I would sat that cunning does matter for ninja battles; being insanely good at planning ahead (Shikamaru) or having a talent for pulling out unexpected tricks and improvising (Naruto) can be a decisive advantage even in high-level fights.
Shikimaru actually fails, because despite his planning ahead any opponent with more chakra than he does is able to power out of the shadow jutsu.

[Chengar Qordath]

Shikimaru actually fails, because despite his planning ahead any opponent with more chakra than he does is able to power out of the shadow jutsu.
Hidan disagrees with you.

[Chaoticblues]

Not sure if this was added yet but:

No one except Naruto's love interest (iffy even at that) should describe the colour of his eyes using the word "cerulean".

I just read a fanfic where either Anko sees him for the first time when he's around 6 years old for a couple minutes. She then proceeds to describe him to Yuugao as having "deep cerulean blue eyes". Normal people would say his eyes are blue.

"deep cerulean blue eyes" are reserved for pedophiles with eye fetishes.


I guess a more general rule would be:

Girls writing Naruto fanfiction (and indeed all fanfiction) must stop masturbating when writing a physical description of male characters.

[Hashasheen]

Hidan disagrees with you.
Hidan didn't have him beat in chakra, did he? It's shown in one of the two fights he's ever in (Tayuya) that superior chakra reserves can hold off the shadow chakra and push it back. Hidan was just a dumbass who got lucky with an immortality jutsu.

[LT2000]

If you take the stat levels given in the databooks for anything, Hidan had a shitload of chakra. Regardless, I would imagine that pretty much ANY S-Class ninja would seriously outclass Shikamaru in that capacity.

[Chengar Qordath]

Regardless, I would imagine that pretty much ANY S-Class ninja would seriously outclass Shikamaru in that capacity.
An S-Class ninja would probably beat Shikamaru easily in just about every category except intelligence; Shikamaru's ninja skills are pretty mediocre for his level. It's his brain that makes him dangerous.

[LT2000]

An S-Class ninja would probably beat Shikamaru easily in just about every category except intelligence; Shikamaru's ninja skills are pretty mediocre for his level. It's his brain that makes him dangerous.

If I wanted to, I could probably argue this point from a databook perspective to some extent, but that would mean defending Shikamaru and I can't stand him so LOL.

[Hashasheen]

If you take the stat levels given in the databooks for anything, Hidan had a shitload of chakra. Regardless, I would imagine that pretty much ANY S-Class ninja would seriously outclass Shikamaru in that capacity.
Then that doesn't make sense. Anybody with a serious amount of chakra reserves should have overwhelmed the shadow jutsu like Tayuya did. I call plothole then.

[Moloch]

... I can't even remember what happened in the Tayuya fight; but if she could overwhelm it based on chakra then Hidan shoulda been able to do so easily.

Though if you said "will based"; then I suppose that's believable. Hidan's a homicidal freak who got given his power. Tayuya clawed her way there. So therefore; I'd assume pretty much all the S classed nins other then Hidan would have no trouble so Shikamaru got a break there. Even so though; it would still be a weak explanation. So yeah; I'd go with plot hole.

[Howdy]

If you take the stat levels given in the databooks for anything, Hidan had a shitload of chakra. Regardless, I would imagine that pretty much ANY S-Class ninja would seriously outclass Shikamaru in that capacity.

I expect better than this, LT.

Kill yourself.

Or not. Otherwise, don't try to build up Hidan of all people - the joke Akatsuki - to anything more than a sideshow act.

[LT2000]

Oh, I fully agree that Hidan was garbage. Databooks still gave him a high chakra score, LOL. You can fault Kishimoto on that point.

...Even so, I still think Hidan is superior to Shikamaru and the outcome of that battle was complete BS (though I think I would probably say the same about the death of every other Akatsuki member too). And I also think it's reasonable to say that most/all S-Class ninja would almost certainly have more chakra than Shikamaru, since he's pretty mediocre in every physical aspect of ninja-ing. The only ones I'm not certain about on that point are Hiruzen right there at the end (he didn't really even have enough to properly use Kage Bunshin) and Itachi (who for whatever strange reason - I suppose his phantom 'illness' - didn't look to really have too high of a chakra capacity).

[Ragon]

I would say as a rule the Akatsuki are far superior to all of the 11 with the exception of Naruto. And while Sasuke was capable of killing Deidara, he was way out of his league against Itachi.

[Bucks]

Sasuke wasn't able to kill Deidara, Deidara killed himself planning to take Sasuke with him. At that point, it was very much a stalemate.

[Jeopardizer]

Btw, does Hidan use chakra anyway?
For what we know, all his jutsus/power could be religion related and thus, he give no shit about chakra, so Shikamaru overpowering him isn't THAT har dto imagine.

Imo, the kagemane depends on the quantities of chakra used versus active time, plus the physical force of the launcher versus the defender.
Whatever.



Rule n : Naruto does not have the necessary dentary complex to inject special demonic chakra enchanced venom to mark his harem of soulmates.

n.a : Naruto can't have a soulmate. period.

n.b : Kyubbi can't give a bloodline who make hears or tails grow to Naruto.

[Manatheron]

Y'all do remember that these 'Laws', like the Potter laws can and should be disregarded as you see fit. A decent author could probably ignore most of them and still turn out a readable story.

Most laws, both here and in the Potter section are purely to dissuade the crappy authors from starting in the first place.