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Tavi's stunted growth

Discussion in 'Fanfic Discussion' started by Khortez, Apr 15, 2010.

  1. Khortez

    Khortez Third Year

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    I just read through the the books up to Princep's Fury and it occurred to me that Isana really had no need to stunt Tavi in any manner, or even let him think that he was an orphan and not her son.

    Obviously Septimus never publicly stated he was married or was about to have a child to anyone, except perhaps his closest friends and even then, not to all of them. Some of the people in the camp might have known about their relationship, but if they had then there would be no point in trying to hide it. Those same people would have remembered her name, and the name of the sister she always had around her, and the fact that her sister wasn't the one that got pregnant, she was.

    It seems like she was paranoid to an extreme since anyone who knew about her facade would be able to see through it easily, and those who didn't wouldn't suspect a thing. Furthermore, after childbirth she was in Alera's ass end of nowhere. She made no secret that Tavi's parents where involved in First Calderon, so why would she try to craft him to look younger?
     
  2. Deviace

    Deviace Second Year

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    So people would believe there was no way that Tavi was the son of Septimus because he would of been dead when Tavi was conceived?
     
  3. Khortez

    Khortez Third Year

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    Except those who would know about Septimus having a son would know that Isana was the mother making that point moot. Besides she even says that Tavi's parents died in the First Battle of Calderon so its not like she is skewing his time of birth that much.

    And thats not really even the point either. It seems like she kept it up well after infancy and into puberty which would explain Tavi's extreme growth spurt after leaving her manipulations.

    It just seems really unnecessary for her to keep up the charade of him being her sisters son when she could have just returned to Bernardholt saying that a legionnaire that died in the battle knocked her up. When his furies manifested and showed to be more powerful than normal, she could also say that it was a bastard son of a noble and explain off like that.
     
  4. Agayek

    Agayek Dimensional Trunk DLP Supporter

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    Except the only noble there was Septimus and his singulares (as far as we know).

    That's really the reason she did it, as far as I can tell. She was trying to hide his crafting talent for as long as possible.
     
  5. silverlasso

    silverlasso Minister of Magic DLP Supporter

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    I don't think so. She said that that was an unintentional side-effect.

    My explanation: I think it's reasonable to think that she was just super-paranoid. Imagine her circumstances. Her husband has just died due to what must have been some underhanded scheme; she's naturally going to take all precautions possible, whether or not they are rational or necessary.
     
  6. Tehan

    Tehan Avatar of Khorne DLP Supporter

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    Isana matches the archetype of the devouring mother to a T. She kept him powerless (literally), stunted and basically helpless to keep him where she could watch over him and protect him from nameless, faceless figures that only she can save him from. Even when he comes into his own, she basically sells her allegiance to his political enemies because she's still convinced that she's the only one who can protect him.

    Tavi grows up Furyless, motherless, fatherless, and convinced he's a burden on the only family he knows. It's a miracle he hadn't gotten himself killed in the dangerous Calderon Valley or offed himself because he's everyone's bitch. Consider the first time he's seen: he's wrapped around the finger of the Holt bike because he's got no self-confidence, and he almost gets himself and his uncle killed because of it, and he's damn near no use in getting themselves out of the situation because the incredibly potent furies that are his birthright have been smothered by Isana.

    Isana is the only villain in Codex Alera that does not get their comeuppance.
     
  7. I Burn Water

    I Burn Water Seventh Year

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    Agreed. I was really dissatisfied when Tavi did nothing for repayment. I don't really care how much of a perfectly moral character he is supposed to be. Isana did the most damage of any Citizen/freeman. Fucking bitch.
     
  8. Tylendel

    Tylendel Seventh Year

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    She may have stunt his growth and taken away his crafting, but it allowed Tavi to think outside the Aleran box and use something else than his crafting.

    So while it was an handicap in short term, when you see the long term effect of her action, it wasn't that bad.
     
  9. I Burn Water

    I Burn Water Seventh Year

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    That doesn't change the fact that she's still a fucking bitch.
     
  10. Agayek

    Agayek Dimensional Trunk DLP Supporter

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    Attacking her would go against the entirety of his character though. It would be cathartic and quite fun to read, but it goes against everything he is to attack family.

    Besides, if she hadn't done it, there's a half-decent chance he'd be dead already.
     
  11. Iztiak

    Iztiak Prisoner DLP Supporter

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    It's kinda like breaking the kneecaps of a squad of soldiers getting sent in to war.

    Sure, they live... But it's not exactly productive. At least not intentionally.
     
  12. Lyndon Eye

    Lyndon Eye Minister of Magic DLP Supporter

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    QFT. Most of you are ignoring that point.

    This is not a situation where 50% survival w/furies > 100% survival without.
    It's a situation where the ramifications of Tavi's death (and thus no clear succession and obliteration by the Vord) are greater than the ramifications of Tavi's incompetence.

    Besides, Isana's didn't mean to permanently stunt him. She was horrified and guilt-trodden when she realized that (although regardless, it was still the right decision).
     
  13. Aekiel

    Aekiel Angle of Mispeling ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    No. You're thinking about this with the benefit of hindsight. At the time, Isana stunted Tavi's growth solely for the purpose of defending him from the people who killed Septimus. What happens years down the line has no impact on the decision she made to purposefully cripple him when he was a child.
     
  14. Sauce Bauss

    Sauce Bauss Second Year ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    and then she kept doing it. Feeling bad is all well and good but she knew what she was doing and continued to do it. Besides, furycrafting is a vital part of functioning in Aleran society. It's not just a cool talent that a few people have, it's the most important factor determining their place in the world and what options they'll have in the future. She took that from him due to an irrational fear that people would hunt down the child of Septimus. If they knew about Septimus having a child already, then they'd have found him regardless of her stunting his growth, and if they didn't then they wouldn't have gone looking for him in the first place.
     
  15. Tehan

    Tehan Avatar of Khorne DLP Supporter

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    And she had zero proof that there were any Alerans behind Septimus' death. She had nothing but a few hazy suspicions that blossomed into full-blown paranoia when, surprise surprise, Septimus, a soldier, died on a battlefield.

    If she had taken her newborn son to Sextus and said 'sup, I'm your daughter in law, say hello to your grandson' and all that shit, not only would Tavi have grown up with all his Furies in full strength, not only would he have had the best training and teachings that Sextus' devious mind could have provided with the resources of the entire Aleran Empire to call on, but the Alerans would not have plunged into civil war.

    Mull that one over for a bit, get a good taste of it. Isana is single-handedly responsible for the civil war that weakened Alera to the point that it was almost wiped out.
     
  16. Agayek

    Agayek Dimensional Trunk DLP Supporter

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    Except that Septimus', and all of his singulares', (supposedly the strongest group of furycrafters in all of Alera) bodies were found away from the main battle, and all had signs of furycrafted wounds.

    That alone points strongly to someone high in the Aleran Citizenry either working with the Marat or, far more likely considering their general attitude towards the "savages", an assassination.

    From this point, it's safe to conclude that someone with considerable clout is trying to create a power vacuum of some sort. The existence of any heirs to the House of Gaius would completely destroy this vacuum. It's then logical to conclude that if Tavi's existence were to be known, he would be killed by whoever ordered/committed the assassination of Septimus.

    I'm not sure what you want as more proof. Sure, she didn't have a notarized letter from Septimus' killers, but it's a logical conclusion.

    It's a known fact that only Alerans can use furycraft. Septimus was killed with furycraft, and he was one of the most powerful single beings in all of Alera. Ergo, an Aleran(s) (considerably powerful one(s) to boot) killed him.

    I, for one, wouldn't be willing to risk any child I had on the relatively slim chance that the Marat managed to talk an Aleran into helping them. I can't say I'd do the "stunt his growth to hide him better" thing, but I can definitely see the reasoning behind it.

    Edit: On a quasi-related side note, is it every said that she knew the consequences? I can't remember it ever being said one way or the other, but the general gist I get from when she talks about it is that she honestly did not know the effect it would have on his crafting until it was too late to matter.
     
  17. Tehan

    Tehan Avatar of Khorne DLP Supporter

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    Okay, it's been too long since I've read it, so I'll err on the side of me-not-having-to-flip-through-six-books and give you this point. But even if Septimus got killed with furies (during the confusion of battle with everyone distracted by umpteen thousand screaming barbarians and their sidekicks), there's still the question of what she did after - she deprived Tavi of his birthright in every conceivable way because she was irrationally mad at his grandfather for not saving her almost-husband.

    Alera needed an heir more than she needed the son she went on to utterly neglect.

    And the whole "she did it to protect him" thing? No. Gaius Sextus could protect his grandson infinitely better than Isana could. Hell, he probably could have de-aged Tavi without raping his furies so hard that at the end of six books they had barely begun waking up, if security through obscurity was really the way to go. The reason Septimus died was because he deliberately left Sextus' protection, proceeded to wander onto a battlefield, and became the Lucky Pierre in a Marat/Septimus/assassin sandwich.
     
  18. silverlasso

    silverlasso Minister of Magic DLP Supporter

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    Yeah, but if Tavi had died, he wouldn't have awakened the Vord.
     
  19. Agayek

    Agayek Dimensional Trunk DLP Supporter

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    The stunting of his furies was likely an unintentional side effect. I can't remember clearly one way or the other, so I could easily be wrong here, but the sense I got from it was that it was an unintended side effect of her slowing his aging.

    I'm far too lazy to comb through the books for this, though, so it's probably just gonna be an unanswered point.

    Seeing as she grew up in the back-end of nowhere, there's a fair chance she simply did not know the state the Realm was in. It doesn't seem that farfetched that a farmgirl from nowhere wouldn't know the details of the current political situation, nor the ramifications of the loss of the heir.

    In addition, it's human nature to see your own needs/priorities as vastly more important than anyone else's. She'd see the guaranteed survival of her only child, and the last real connection she has to the man she loved, as much more important than any amount of political instability.

    Seeing as Sextus is the one who sent Septimus to Garrison, I'm not entirely sure that's possible. Septimus wanted to hunt down the conspirators and kill them out in the open. Sextus essentially said "fuck that, you gtfo" and sent him to Garrison, ostensibly to allow him to heal, but he admits later that it was to get him out of Alera Imperia and away from the assassins.

    Plus, there's circumstantial evidence to suggest that the entire First Calderon was initiated by the assassins. It's never outright stated, but it's strongly hinted at in a number of places, not the least of which is from the first book, especially when Fidelias first goes to meet with the Marat.


    Also, you are assuming that Sextus would even want Tavi. It's at least a rational fear that Sextus would be enraged that Septimus married Isana instead of a more "suitable" partner. It's fairly common in such societies that children like Tavi would be ignored or treated much like Max was. Knowing Sextus and his motivations, that course of action is fairly unlikely, but we're operating from a more-or-less omniscient viewpoint, not that of a terrified young farmgirl who just lost everything she loved.


    The thing is, I agree with you, insofar as stunting Tavi's growth was a terrible thing. The difference is, I don't think Isana is some crazy monster because of it. There's a logical rationale behind it. I would probably have gone a different route, but I can see why she did what she did.
     
  20. Tehan

    Tehan Avatar of Khorne DLP Supporter

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    I think she's a crazy monster because she did it, realised she did it, rationalised it, then continued to shove her nose into his business, completely and utterly convinced that she was the only one that could save him.