So, one of the things we know for sure about thresholds is that humans produce them, while supernatural critters don't. So, what about half-human half-supernatural things, like Changelings and Scions? Would they produce thresholds over their homes? Would they be affected by the thresholds of others?

If I had to make a total guess, I would say that half-humans would probably either produce weaker than normal thresholds, and/or their thresholds might have issues like a changeling's threshold being useless against Fae and a Scion's not being able to keep out whatever their other half comes from.

I would also guess that, similar to a wizard, a half-human would be able to cross a threshold uninvited, but would have their supernatural abilities weakened in the process.

 

I'd agree with that. If you assume things scale in accordance with how much humanity they possess, it seems logical. Any WOJ on the topic?

 

Slightly off topic, we know that thresholds are made by people living in a Home, but does the degree at which one considers their house a Home matter? Would a single bachelor who thought of his home as his only safe place in the world have a stronger threshold than one who parties all night and basically uses their home as a crashpad? I guess it has to do with the actual substance if a threshold, and how it forms. What about if two bachelors thought of their house as home, but one put work and devotion into repairing and upgrading their homes?

I agree that it probably has to do with how much "natural" they are, as opposed to supernatural. Wasn't one if the reasons Butcher gave Dresden Mouse because it would strengthen his threshold? And Mouse is sort of semi-divine I thought, so if having any amount of supernatural-Ness precluded you from building a threshold, Mouse wouldn't matter in that sense. Though maybe I picked that idea up from my head instead of a legitimate source.

 

Remember the importance of intent in Dresdenverse magic.

A threshold grows from a sense of home - and in many ways, that is dependant on a sense of family. Home is where you belong, where they let you come back and love you no matter what your flaws are - or at least, that's home to me. To Harry, or Murphy, or the Carpenters, or Thomas, 'home' might mean something different, whether very different or slightly.

It is the sense of 'home' that allows the threshold to grow, augmented by love and such. Bob says bachelors don't usually have a strong threshold; note the use of 'usually.' if a bachelor loved his life, loved his home, and thought of it as home, without a need for family or companionship, for that bachelor the threshold would be much stronger than for a bachelor who pined for a family.

Likewise, a semi-mortal who considers themselves mortal, or experiences things in a mortal way, such as feelings of home, love and family, would be able to produce a threshold much more easily - and effectively - than a semi-mortal who embraces their supernatural side.

If, for example, the Changeling kids from Summer Knight all still lived together, and all had decided to embrace their mortal sides, as they think of each other as family, and to them, home would incomplete without each other, their threshold would get stronger and end up just like a normal, pure-mortal one.

On the other hand, knowing that one of them betrayed the others, the remaining three would have had a hard time establishing the threshold because there would have been a hole in their sense of family - but as they came to terms with the betrayal, that sense would heal, and the htreshold would strengthen again.

in the same way, once one of them embraced their supernatural side, that particular member's contribution to the threshold would be less than the ones who chose mortality - however, because they still think of each other as family, still love each other, if the one who Chose moved out, it would have the same overall effect as a betrayal - there would be sense of loss that would slow the growth of the threshold. (On the other other hand, if the one who Chose decided to remain in the same home, while their contribution to the threshold would be less, the others would have no sense of loss, and the threshold would grow normally.)

tl;dr: Yeah, some degree of mortality is required to establish a threshold, but the strength of that threshold depends on what the people who live there consider 'home' or 'family'.

 

I don't think that it's mortality that enables thresholds. Animals, while mortal, don't seem to produce thresholds, while White Court vampires do. Presumably this means that all beings with a soul (humans, angels, changelings, and WC vampires) produce thresholds. Presumably it also means that thresholds are composed of soulfire.

 

Or that thresholds are the result of potent or certain kinds of soulfire leaving imprints on their surroundings over time, building up into the threshold.

Positive familial interactions=expressions of the soul=impressions left on buildings=threshold.

 

White court vampires have souls? I thought they started with one, but lost it when they fed for the first time.

 

Nah, that just means they can never kill their demon, so they end up with a good vs. evil thing going on, with the demon almost always winning in the long term.

 

In Blood Rites, Harry shared a soulgaze with Thomas to find out if he was speaking the truth. And Ramirez soulgazed Lara in White Night.

 

I'm not sure if WC vampires have thresholds; I don't recall any mention of it offhand, and you would think it would have come up when Harry sneaked into Thomas' apartment uninvited. Of course, WC vamps being big on courtesy and usually having a bunch of security means you won't get many chances to enter their homes uninvited anyway.

I like LittleChicago's points on intent. It makes sense that, when it comes to half-humans, part of it would depend on how human they think of themselves as being.

 

Additionally, White Court vampires aren't affected by thresholds while they're mostly mortal. WoJ has it that they might be affected by them while vamped out though, since it's not really the human part that's in control at that point. Madeline would probably be affected by thresholds more than Thomas would, before he was tortured by the Naagloshi.

Also, it's not just the sense of home that makes a threshold work. It's the emotions and memories of what has happened in that house that makes it a home, and thus a person that doesn't spend much time there would not have as well a developed threshold as a house that has had several generations of the same family living it (as Murphy's has) or a large family with a strong, loving bond (the Carpenters). So really, Mouse improving the threshold isn't so much him being there as it is the emotions and events that happen between him and Harry building it into a stronger foundation for the energy to settle on. After all, nothing quite makes a house a home like a pet that's waiting for you to get back from work every day.

EDIT: Thomas' apartment was a typical bachelor pad, with a front room that was completely at odds with Thomas' personality as well, so chances are he didn't have much of a threshold built, if he's capable of making them at all. He also hadn't lived there for long (moving in shortly after Proven Guilty, I think), which would have mitigated any threshold building he may have been able to do.

 

Well

Spoiler

Given that Justine is apparently living with him as of Ghost Story, he might start having a fairly substantial threshold that way.

 

As of GS it seems they respond to thresholds like wizards, because they're mortal they can pass but they leave behind most of their power. For some reason having a mortal soul/ being mortal allows one more leeway, which is why the Denarians run around in meatsuits. Speaking of which, are they affected by thresholds?

 

But would the emotions (satisfaction, contentment) of being home and improving ones home not create an emotional bond and memory with a home. Or is the threshold formed because of the interactions of individuals within the home.

 

I think it's primarily the first. The whole nuclear family dynamic is a sociological creation that's bound itself to homes. To believe that thresholds can't exist without our modern ideas of family is pretty weird.

 

All of it goes into building a threshold, it's the act of being a family (the love, emotions and events that happen within a family home) that builds a threshold. It's why the Carpenters' threshold is described as a fortress. They're a very loving family with lots of children and lots of strong emotions flying around; that's bound to create a very strong impression on the building, which is what thresholds are based on.

Also, Murphy's home has a humongously powerful threshold because three generations of her family have lived in it. At a conservative estimate that's 70 years of a loving family living in the place, so even with Murphy living there by herself all the emotions that were thrown around have built the threshold up to amazingly high levels.

I doubt it matters if you're actually family or not. Just as long as the feeling of being close to someone is there I imagine it would go towards building a threshold. That's why apartments don't tend to have strong thresholds, because their occupants generally don't live there for long periods of time. Anna Ash had a pretty strong threshold for an apartment, but she had lived there a long time and likely had her friends over all the time due to the coven she'd made. That made her threshold something to look at, but it still doesn't compare to even a normal family home. I doubt Harry would be able to bull his way through the Carpenters' threshold, for example.

 

I'm pretty sure if Harry tried going through the Carpenter's threshold uninvited (assuming he didn't get a divine smiting; the place does have more than just a threshold protecting it) he'd basically lose his magic.

Also, aside from the length of habitation issue, as I recall all else being equal apartments tend to have weaker thresholds than houses because with an apartment there's less of a sense of privacy and separation than you'd get in an individual house.