Short explanation; Intellectus is the state of being very high level supernatural creatures can have. It isn't omniscience but if they think about something they know it instantly, like they always knew. Known or suspected creatures to have intellectus are Angels, Mother Winter and Mother Summer There is one caveat though. They have to know what they are searching for. But what are the limits on this?

Can they pull a 'Mirror, Mirror on the wall, tell me who the fuck to kill?' or does it have to be more specific? My take on it is that they can instantly get any raw statistics they want but they have to put the information together themselves. They can't just divine the meaning of all life instantly - they still have to use their heads . Thoughts? Ideas?

Relevant Links:

Dresden Wiki link on Intellectus.

What prompted me to start this discussion was this video. The relevant part starts at around 2:15.

 

That does make sense. Is that your personal take on it or Butchers official stance? I am interested and want you to elaborate further.

I think the beings in question might have comprehension problems. Demonreach had no fucking idea what to do about the spiders in Turncoat until Listens-to-Wind asked Dresden to ask Demonreach to remove the water from the trees. Most supernatural creatures thought processes work differently, not necessarily better than humans.

I think what determines a creatures intellectus is their magic seeping into their domain. That means if your theory is right then Mother Summer and Mother Winter have intellectus over their respective domain in the NeverNever and Angels have intellectus over earth, possibly heaven. That means there might be other entities like Demonreach in other places. Actually, that might make a good story.

 

Thanks for explaining. :awesome

 

Bitch-slapped byb Morgan. God, I miss that motherfucker and the hate he inspired.

 

Yeah, he wasn't as bad as Umbridge for the hate because he was essentially a good guy but WOW was he a prick.

 

I always liked Morgan in the books. He was a dick, but a badass nonetheless. Plus, he NUKED A SKINWALKER. You don't get any more awesome than that.

As for Intellectus, we know that some creatures have it to a limited extent (Skinwalkers have it towards how best to torture people, which is why Shagnasty took Thomas), so I wouldn't be surprised if the Mothers only had it in regards to their Courts.

Angels though, I'm not sure on. They may have Intellectus limited to certain things, but it would have to be a pretty broad area, if Uriel's knowledge of various civilian families in The Warrior is to be explained.

Also, I get the feeling that Intellectus may not cover the future very well, at least not far into the future.

 

Intellectus doesn't cover the future at all, at least in Uriel's case. He says himself in The Warrior when he lists Dresden's impact that he's making an educated guess based on human nature and the various people's circumstances. He's not sure how it will play out, but by virtue of millenia of experience and his intellectus, he can make a very good guess at it.

That said, I'm pretty sure Uriel's (if not all Angels) version of Intellectus covers all things currently existing. From the comments he makes and how he tends to operate, I'm fairly certain he's got the all-encompassing version. Most of his Xanatos Gambits wouldn't work terribly well if he didn't.

Edit: Also, 100% agreed on Morgan. Bit of a dick, but he made up for it by being a badass.

 

One thing I was never really sure of - is everything Uriel does an order from the White God? Or is he given guidelines and then allowed to free reign to operate within them?

Also, does Intellectus apply to the White God, especially since JB seems to be moving to putting him at the top of the pantheon? Or do we just assume he's omniscient in the full sense of the word? I used to think that in this world He (he, whatever) was on the level of the Mothers in terms of power but at this particular era he's on top due to his current popularity, but was thrown after the whole "angels can destroy planets" thing which would point to their master being ridiculously overpowered.

 

From what I understand, the White God is just as advertised. Omniscient, omnipotent and omnipresent. He doesn't have Intellectus, because he doesn't need it. He knows everything before he even asks the question.

 

Didn't the White God imprison the Outsiders? I could be befuddled from reading Shezza and LC's stories though.

 

If I remember correctly, the White God is only the White God of modern religion because he derives his power from the sheer amount of believers that he has. That said, I have no idea whether JB is going to ingrain the necessity for WG vs Lucifer into the structure of the universe.

 

It's never stated that the White God locked up the Outsiders or that he requires belief to work. Plus, Jim has stated that he doesn't want to join the God-Is-Not-All-Good/Powerful/etc. bandwagon that recent fantasy literature has went with, so chances are he is the genuine Creator of the Dresdenverse.

 

Then why was he top dog a while ago? Christianity and all variations and flavors didn't always have the most followers in the world.

If the White God does need believers can he get the benefits from multiple religions? Does he get the 'belief power' from all variations of Christianity, Judaism and Islam combined? Or, less likely, does he have to pick just one and roll with that.

Even if he does get power from belief I find it hard to believe the difference between omniscient, omnipotent and omnipresent vs intellectus and massive power is just a few million followers. No, Aekiel is right- the White God does not derive power from followers. He is in a completely different league than any of the old gods. Of course, there is that whole "Can't interfere cause WHOOPSIE free will."

P.S- PLEASE don't let this turn into a discussion of religions. There are other threads for that.

 

Its probably more to do with him being a different 'creature' than the likes of Odin, Uriel whatever. I doubt its anything to do with numbers of followers either. And even if it were, it would probably be to do with who He believed was worshipping him and maybe some sort of magical component at the point of worship or some such to channel the energy. Certainly I highly doubt it would be that he has to 'pick' one religion and run with it. That would imply a greater power who could enforce that choice and the consequences.

 

Sorry to go back to religion, and someone will probably get offended by this, but 3 of the 5 world religions could have the same God. Judaism, Christianity, and Islam all include similar parts, and some of the disciples were in all of their holy books (Abraham). Then you have Buddhism and Hinduism, not sure how those two could tie in, but they believe in a greater good I suppose.

And then there's other things. For instance you don'd need faith in God to use a crucifix against a vampire, or even a religious icon, just Faith. Dresden uses his amulet to repulse a vampire in one of the short stories, using faith in magic with it. So though there is alot of Religion in the books, its not as though you need religion to fight against the forces of evil.

So I assume that as long as there are people believing in a higher being that will help good prevail, then there would be faith to the WG.

 

Buddhism could tie in if you take the WG as a metaphor for Enlightenment, or rather the other way round. For Hinduism (not claiming to be anything more than passing familiar with it) I believe the idea is that all the many many gods are just aspects of one Greater God. So that could tie in to the WG as well.

 

I'm far from an expert, so take this with a grain of salt, but I think the way the Hindu gods work is that there's 3 primary gods (Brahmin, Vishnu and Shiva) and all the other gods are aspects or projections of those three.

I've read some articles stating that the three main gods are also all part of Vishnu, but I've also seen others that say they're separate. The latter seemed to be more genuine, but without actually speaking to a Hindi about it, I doubt I'm gonna be able to get any clarity on it.

Anyway, monotheism isn't really necessary for belief in (a) god. For example, the White God could actually be all of the Shinto gods and spirits that are worshiped, and it would still be an equally valid expression of faith. Omnipotence lets you get away with shit like that.

 

I think Intellectus could do future, and obviously it does truly, because if Uri asks "What will happen if i bring Dresden back?" or "Could i save Dresden?" That would be hypothetical future. At least during Dresden convo with Morgan they say they could avoid being shot, ONLY if they knew a person was there. But that shows future, knowing the person is there and PLANNING to shoot.

I think the reason it doesn't necessarily tell the future is because each person with Intellectus is doing their own thing, possibly preventing the happenings of another from happening.

To add on to that, you would have to ask EVERY hypothetical question to get the entire future, persay; If for the duration of this post only 3 people are on the world plus Uri. Uri wants to save person A from killing person B. He knows it will happen, he could ask, "How do I keep him from stabbing him?" then saves him, but then as soon as that happens person A is trying to bludgen B with a stone instead. And the never ending plot continues till Uri finally stops it. Well then you have person C in the mix, Uri isnt even thinking about. At this point if Uri could do Billions of calculations in his head, then he probably could probably guess the entire future, but doubtful.