Okay, so.

Let's have a discussion on what DLP would like to see in a novel.

I'm making this thread for purely selfish reasons, as I know a lot of you are well read across a broad spectrum of genres in fiction. I want to know what you want next, what you want to see, so I can use it to enhance my work. I suppose others could gain a bit of insight, too.

Do you want strong female leads? A team of leads? A young protagonist? Magical worlds entirely removed from our world or blurred together? Future? Past? Stories with an antagonistic protagonist?

Basically, just what are you looking to read when you read a story? What keeps you reading? Story over substance? Substance over story?

I've noticed more and more DLP getting into original fiction. The anthology, if nothing else. So let's get a trend going.

 

You're talking about Worm, aren't you? Have you read Worm?

I like Worm.

http://parahumans.wordpress.com/category/stories-arcs-1-10/arc-1-gestation/1-01/

Edit: And when I say that, I'm not meaning to be facetious. This story has numerous elements that you just listed and happens to be one of the few stories that really captured my imagination recently. And I've done very little over the past few years aside from read in my spare time.

I think this story has something you didn't list, however, which is something your stories lack. And that's not a criticism. Your stories are wonderful. However, you seem to like the protagonist who is so worldly and jaded that very little seems to phase him. The superman that failed. He's done it all, and while he's never surprised, we, as the audience, are supposed to be. It works.

But this story is all about seeing the world from the protagonist's eyes, coming out of that naive shell to really understand the harsh realities of the world. The reader and the protagonist take that journey together, and that's one of this story's great strengths.

Also, I added a link.

 

My tastes vary a lot from week to week and month to month, but there are a few themes and genres that tend to attract me more than others.

I like stories about discovery. Whether it's discovering a new culture or a new magic system, I enjoy stories that involve a naive or ignorant character learning about the world and their place in it, then using it to their advantage. Worm is a good example, as Howdy mentioned, as is the Mistborn series. Mystery novels tend to fall into this as well, since their central plot is almost uniformly a series of revelations that are pieced together over the course of the book.

Alternately I like stories about teamwork. It's all well and good to have one super fantastic character that leads the way (as in Doctor Who), but it's more interesting to me when you have a group of characters that each have their own specialities that contribute to the whole. Broadening this a bit, I like the sense of camaraderie between a small group of protagonists, especially if it takes a lot of effort to achieve that state.

 

I love good worldbuilding. Just a living, breathing environment you can almost project out and feel. That, creative main characters rather than powerful ones and sympathetic villains. I want to be able to be split in who I'm rooting for, with characters on all sides of the conflict having valid viewpoints. I'm also a fan of a single PoV character, effectively less team building and more exploring a world through one set of eyes.

 

The one thing I really want to see you do is a more reserved older hero, not "I'm going to save the world but I'd rather __fun activity__" and not "I'm the only one who can save the world", I want a reluctant character who tries to do good because it's the right thing, not because he's a hero. I don't know if it makes sense, and it's not as descriptive as other folks, but it's my answer for now.

 

I've recently started planning on something of an epic original series. A lot of these are things that are guiding me in that planning.

What I like in general:

These things make or break stories for me.

Big world, small plot.
I like my fantasy worlds to be huge. Huge in that they go down to ridiculous levels of detail: currency systems, literature, mythology, languages, thousands of years of history. I also like them to be huge in scale, geographically: the world should feel as big as the real world.

But at the same time, I like the story to be small. I don't mean small in length, I mean small in scope. I like the main character's worries to be essentially local. I like to have the sense that the main character's story is just one interesting story in this huge world, and that there are many others. I like it when you know that, even if your main character dies, the world will go on in much the same way. And that even if your main character succeeds, the world will continue in much the same way. Because that's how real life is.

That's not to say that the story can't cover momentous events. In the real world one person can have a lot of influence on the world. It just means that the level of influence should be roughly equivalent to that of the real world. No "one person saves the world from complete destruction".

Useful magic
The magic system of the book I'm reading must be useful. That is to say: magic must do more than solve the problems that the existence of magic creates (i.e. magic must be more than just a tool to fight other people with magic).

Otherwise, there's no reason to include magic at all.

Smart protagonists
While not universal, it's a common theme that the main character has a lot of strength but not too much subtlety. I prefer the reverse: a main character who is skilled and intelligent. Strength is less important.

No predetermined power levels
Harry Potter has ruined me on thus account. Even in other stories, I can't stand it when the world is set up such that certain people are just more powerful than others. Even worse if that can be described quantitatively ("he's twice as powerful as me") or numerically ("over 9000!").

It just seems like such a inelegant system to me now. Why would you ever give people set power levels when making their abilities a result of their character traits is so much more interesting?

Unexplained magic
I like my magic to be unexplained at its most fundamental level. Now, don't get me wrong - I love rule bound magic. Magic that has limitations, that has a community of magic users who create theories, discover new things, etc. I love magic as a science/engineering analogue.

What I don't like is when an author explains the metaphysical origin or source of magic. No matter how hard the author tries, this will inevitably feel far too simple. Think about the real world, about how complicated quantum mechanics and general relativity are. And they aren't even the end of the story! We still don't know the answers to the big questions.

Some particular tropes I enjoy:

Female protagonist
Probably because they tend to be more in line with my above preference: smart but not born with some innate strength that instantly marks them out as destined for greatness.

Claiming of heritage
I'm a sucker for a character who turns out to be related to someone important. Preferably royalty. Never gets old. Best example: Tavi in the Alera series. Another example of a different type: Daenerys in ASoIaF.

Unequal worlds
I like worlds of extreme inequality, and where that extreme inequality is an issue. Preferably this is inequality of wealth, social class, political power. I'm less interested in gender or race inequality.

Open romance
If the main character is going to be in a romance, I like there to be several potential partners and for the reader to be kept guessing. For the reader to develop favourites. For the character not to find true love on their first romance, but to have relationships that fail or just peter out.

Complex politics
A Song of Ice and Fire. 'Nuff said.

Some particular things I want to see:

More subtle magic
I've had my fill, for the moment, of flashy magic like in Harry Potter. I'd like to see more magical systems that wouldn't require special effects to film, were it a movie. Subtler magics, maybe entirely internal to the human body/mind.

1600s tech
We have lots of medieval technology levels. We have some steampunk. And then we have lots of modern fantasy. One era seems to be left out significantly: the renaissance. The era where gunpowder is beginning to see use. The era when some science is beginning to be done properly. The era when civilisations begin to expand and explore far beyond their own shores, when intercontinental trade is beginning to really take off, where old institutions start to be questioned and split apart.

Things I can't stand:

Extreme angst
Example: Assassin's Apprentice by Hobb. Couldn't finish that book.

Species glut
I'm unashamedly humanist. My preference is for series where humans are the only intelligent species, and the animal species are more or less the same as on Earth. If there must be a second species, my preference is for some kind of spiritual/otherworldly beings: nymphs, fae, etc.

Real religion
I quite like religion in fantasy books. But I can't stand it when the god(s) of a religion are known to be real. Real gods trivialise human worries, as does the existence of an afterlife. Religion should stay ambiguous. The exception is if the gods aren't really gods but are just very powerful beings.

External threat vs. internal infighting
Here's an all-too-common trope that unfortunately many of my favourite books perpetuate. It's the trope of contrasting two conflicts: internal infighting against a looming external threat which threatens everyone. Not only is this trope now exhausted, I also just find it annoying: I'm always infinitely more interested in the complex infighting than the simple binary "us vs. them" external threat. The external threat is therefore a distraction from the interesting, complex, human conflicts.

Prophesies
Cheap plot device, and like set power levels minimizes the role of human choice and character.

 

Harry Dresden.

Your point needs a little elaboration because the real world sort of is full of predetermined "power levels" to a large degree. As a case in point, John McEnroe famously almost never practiced, yet was the #1 tennis player in the world. He's pretty much the poster boy for those believing in the primacy of natural ability.

McEnroe's tennis prowess would make for boring fiction though, and had he truly applied himself, he could have been so much more, which is I think what you're driving at. The Billy Beane who squanders his freakish natural talent is hardly a heroic figure for doing so. With any complex ability, there's a balance between genetic/environmental predisposition on the one hand and effort/mindset/sacrifice on the other; good, compelling characters tend toward the latter more than the former or, like an MJ or Kobe, have both in spades. They're the ones I want to read about.

 

I don't always like stories limited to one PoV. I like to know how the villain thinks, how he goes about his villainness and why.

Take, for example, James Patterson's series, Alex Cross. Homicide and family politics and some really creepy, twisted fucks to boot. At first, Patterson's villains were stupid, like Garry Soneji in Along Came A spider. Now if Patterson worked as well on his protagonists as he did on his antagonists, then his books would be better than they really are.

Also, to reference a fic, Joe, Defiance of the Hero appealed to me because Harry descended into that void of insanity. He didn't weep at every death that he caused, directly or indirectly.

Then, there's Stephen King, who's main attraction in his stories, to me, are his character's monologues. Like "Misery." His bitter reactions and thoughts just went down well.

Then you get Chuck Palahniuk, author of "Fight club." Sure, his narrative might be goddamned near close to every other book he writes, but Palahniuk knows how to degrade every thing in sight.

Then there's an author, Irvine Welsh, who's characters are, more often than not, antiheroes.

So, in short, I like my protagonists to be utter fuck-ups with hardly a sense of direction, but with a purpose. Characters who are lost, but the suspense has to be measured carefully.

 

A smart, pragmatic main character and believable world and story building are all I really wish for.
A small scale plot is the icing of the cake... I care more about the personal problems of the chars then the fate of the universe.

Romance is also ok... If you write it believable I am nearly ok with everything.

 

There are two things that I look for in a book:

1) It has to be a story. It has to be something where I'm always wanting to find out what happens next, where I always have to read just one more chapter before putting the book down. My favourite books are the ones that I stay up all night reading, and don't even notice the time passing.

I can forgive all sorts of bad writing and characters for a great story.

2) It needs to be a world that I can live in. The worldbuilding has to be done in a way where I can imagine what it would be like to live there. It doesn't necessarily have to be a big, epic, Middle Earth style fantasy land, it could just be a book about a guy in his local pub, but it needs to make it so I can imagine myself in that pub.

 

Hmm. My ideal story would focus on a couple of things I suppose.

It needs to be personal, even if the events are grand and sweeping. As long as I can feel the protagonist bleeding through the pages I'll be happy. He also needs to go places, personally. I'll be happy provided there's consistent, realistic character development. Hell, I like it when characters take on undesirable traits - it reminds me that they're human.

I'm often torn between whimsy and violence while reading. On the one hand, a good old bloodbath (Like Battle Royal) can be great fun. On the other hand though, reading something evocative of the mysteries and certainties of childhood is very appealing. The unifying factor here, that makes me ok with reading two dramatically different types of stories, is consistent tone.

I can get lost in a world of Ultra-violence just as surely as a world of gabled terraces and winding forest paths. If the author is good, he or she will bring me in - whether I want to or not.

It's the mystery that does it really. As long as a book is making me think, causing me to ask questions, I'll keeping reading.

 

My main criteria is that I want to be able to put myself in that character's shoes. I want to be able to really relate to the character and feel like I have something vested in them

 

I prefer, like many others, an exceptional world building. I want to see a lot of details in the fantasy world, not very flashy or epic, but something that makes me relate that world, on some grounds, to our own earth. As mentioned earlier by Taure, when protagonist is going through his acts it shouldn't feel like the whole world is around him, rather it should that he doing some important act which is a part of the world, but not the world itself.

Also when it comes to character set, I like my protagonist and antagonist to be the part of the game/conflict, and they should never be larger than that game/conflict. This is a reason I liked 'A Song of Ice and Fire' so much, here no character bigger than the 'Game of Thrones'. I like a personal feel to them.

On the characters, I quite like anti hero as my protagonist, who is kind of genius. As someone mentioned earlier, they need not be epicly powerful. Someone like Tyrion or Littlefinger, perhaps. I can also go with my protagonist being a part of group, much like Mark Lawrence's Broken Empire series, where they have certain understanding and trust.

The plot, to me, should be set in a political scenario, with my characters having a lot of political clout. I like intense diplomatic shit and can do without too many epic wars.

One of my biggest requirement is to have some internal conflict in the plot. Something which is not very obvious but affects the plot very subtly. I can do without a lot of romance. But as Cheddar said, in place of romance if just the relationships between the characters is done beautifully, relation being of any sort, I would be very much happy.

And fuck yeah, I like anticlimax.

 

Sesc, no. But I expect there to be a thread of consistency, and so far we are seeing a bit of that. A lot of the responses have touched on key elements that make a good story. Things I kind of already knew, but good to have reinforced. These notes are going to be most useful heading into the future on my stories.

I feel like I've just been making up my novels as I go along (well, I have, as do we all), and now it's time to try and write my Harry Potter, my Dresden, my LotR, my WoT, my Rothfuss, and so on. I may, likely, fail spectacularly. But it's time to give it a shot. I believe trusting in the rather staggering intelligence of the DLP community gives me an edge in that regard.

Cheddar, good question.

I want good characters doing cool things. Defining 'cool', in that sense, could be anything from fighting in a dark alleyway to blowing up the sun to studying theory of magic to breaking into high security prisons. Characters that act...

...on a moral philosophy that fails them.

If I'm being honest, the reason I posted this thread is because I have come up with something that I believe could be phenomenal. An entire premise to a world/magic system and, overall, character. The magic system is unique (said every writer ever), the world is... clever. I wanted this thread to see which paths to take my idea down.

Everything I've done over the last decade, from the Hero Trilogy, to Wastelands, to my first steps into the published original world has been practice for this particular idea.

Basically, I don't want to fuck it up - and DLP has steered me well in the past.

Let's hear some more on story dynamics.

 

I am all about the worldbuilding. Interestingly, just like CheddarTrek, I also like young protagonists. Perhaps because it gives them an excuse for the foolish things a protagonist can sometimes do. Or perhaps because the books you read as a child are often also about children. But no matter the reason, I do have a definite fondness for protagonists on the young side. Just thinking about some of the books I've read most recently that have stood out the most, Mistborn had Vin and Kingkiller had Kvothe. And both of those had pretty decent worldbuilding, or at least an illusion of such, though I did think it was a little flat.

I also agree with most of what Taure wrote.

The open romance thing is something that I really like as well. I hate when the entire focus is on the romance, and TBH, I'd kind of prefer very little romance in the first place, but for the love of god, I hate it when there is 'the' one that they love so much and wax poetically about. I would rather see a brief, sweet romance between say, Kvothe and Penthe, than the OTP of Kvothe/Denna.