1. DLP Flash Christmas Competition + Writing Marathon 2024!

    Competition topic: Magical New Year!

    Marathon goal? Crank out words!

    Check the marathon thread or competition thread for details.

    Dismiss Notice
  2. Hi there, Guest

    Only registered users can really experience what DLP has to offer. Many forums are only accessible if you have an account. Why don't you register?
    Dismiss Notice
  3. Introducing for your Perusing Pleasure

    New Thread Thursday
    +
    Shit Post Sunday

    READ ME
    Dismiss Notice

Plot device help

Discussion in 'Fanfic Discussion' started by rededison, Apr 17, 2008.

  1. rededison

    rededison Second Year

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2007
    Messages:
    58
    Location:
    Texas
    I had a long post written, and then upon previewing realized that I would have responded to my own post with "tl; dr."

    To cut out all of the details about my story and where it's going, I'm looking for advice in drawing up a will for the Potters. There are a ton of stories that use it as a plot device, and I was getting pissed at reading yet another story where Harry reads his parents' will and the entire thing can be summed up as "Harry gets everything. Don't leave him with the Dursleys." I'm trying to use it as a plot device to set off in a different direction (AU/AR story) without it sounding like a retarded twelve year old was the Potters' legal counsel.


    Obviously putting a real legal document in the middle of a story would bore a reader to death, but I'd like to have it drawn up for my own reference so that I can be self-consistent in writing the effects that it has.


    I'm mostly speculating on how probate, intestacy laws, inheritance laws, and guardianship would work in the case of the Potters if a court were to have actually gotten involved. Part of the issue here is that I'm fairly familiar with these laws in the United States - I know the Uniform Probate Code decently well - but I don't know much about law outside of the US. On top of that, given the split between the magical and Muggle worlds, how much of traditional Muggle law would even apply in the magical world?


    Specific help I'm looking for:
    There are a number of websites available for shitty legal advice if you're drawing up documents in the US. Is there an equivalent for English law? I'm not looking for a will that would actually hold up in court, but I'd like to write something that is most likely what the Potters would have really written before going into hiding.

    Discussing this with friends mostly resulted in a thought experiment on divergent law - if wizarding culture has been separate for over three hundred years, how has this affected their laws? Goblin influence should mean that property laws in the magical world read differently than in the Muggle world, but DH is the only place I can find canon evidence of any of this sort of thing (Dumbledore's will, the way Goblins view property).

    Any thoughts?
     
  2. Mordecai

    Mordecai Drunken Scotsman –§ Prestigious §– DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2005
    Messages:
    559
    Location:
    Englandshire
    High Score:
    5,725
    Firstly you have to bear in mind that it is the Ministry that deals with Wills not Gringotts.

    Wizarding law is probably based around Family, and is most probably patriarchal.

    As for your version of the will, easiest way to go would to probably state each and every bequest, even if their all to Harry, separately. So make a bequest for the money in Gringotts, for each property, to any significant items do the bequests individually, and so forth like that.

    And whatever you do don't make a joke about James writing "Being of sound mind and body (don't laugh at that Sirius)", because its simply pathetic.
     
  3. rededison

    rededison Second Year

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2007
    Messages:
    58
    Location:
    Texas
    That was a given.

    As the goal was to write something resembling a legally sound document, obviously jokes are out.




    Mostly this was a question of English law - what was English inheritance law like in the late 17th & early 18th century? How would it have changed in the wizarding world since then?
     
  4. Mordecai

    Mordecai Drunken Scotsman –§ Prestigious §– DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2005
    Messages:
    559
    Location:
    Englandshire
    High Score:
    5,725
    in that sort of time period large fortunes would would be passed on patrilineally, to the first born son, as it is they who would receive lands, grants and titles associated with the fortune and Name.

    Smaller fortunes (modestly wealthy, for instance merchant families) would have more leeway, they could leave money to whomsoever they wished (though bear in mind that is was often easy to get the Will changed if you were either good at dueling or had powerful friends).

    Poor families, or families with little in the way of liquid assets would generally not even bother with a Will, the bequest would be handled verbally, usually the local priest would take charge of that, or failing that the local magistrate.

    As for how the wizarding world would work things, I would think first off that there would be specially spelled paper to ensure that it is all above board and there is no coercion involved. The Exam Board uses anti-cheat spells on quills, surely a variant would be that the writer must be doing his own bidding and not following the wishes of someone else?

    How you write it would depends greatly on how rich you are having the Potters. Apart from money what bequests are involved? Land? Residences? Business shares? Titles? Positions of Responsibility? You would have to consider each of these carefully, and also decide how competent and able you want the Ministry to be.
     
  5. Grubdubdub

    Grubdubdub Supreme Mugwump

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2008
    Messages:
    1,604
    The potter didn't give Harry nothing, so for money he became a slut. Then Ron and Malfoy came and they did butsecks with Harry. The end. You like it?
     
  6. Dark Lady Pryor

    Dark Lady Pryor Fourth Year

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2007
    Messages:
    126
    Since you're speculating on how probate, guardianship etc works in England, I'd figure I'd clarify what I could for you.

    I don't know much about wills in England now (and especially not about it centuries ago), but I've recently had to work through my father's estate, since he died a week ago.

    Probate isn't needed unless a will hasn't been made, and then if the next of kin (in this case, Harry) is underage, his guardian's would be the ones to work through probate on his behalf, and he would need two people to sign the documents for him. This also ties in with inheritance, since it simply goes to whoever has been stated in the will, if one exists.

    Guardianship would be given to whoever was named in the will, and if not would be to the next of kin to the deceased, (so legally he would be sent to Petunia Dursley anyway).

    I'm not sure what an intestacy law is, since I've never run across the term.

    Hope this has helped in any way.
     
  7. Muttering Condolences

    Muttering Condolences Card Captored and buttsecksed

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2006
    Messages:
    700
    Given what DLP has just said, Harry could be caught in a bit of a political loophole. Harry is under age, but his next of kin are muggles. I'm sure that there are laws on the books preventing muggles from being involved in the magical political/social/economic process.

    Therefore, Harry is an enigma, and you can go anywhere with the will plot device.

    Of course, you could just briefly pass over the will. Have a Ministry official say something along the lines of " We, James and Lily Potter, being sound mind and body...etc, etc, etc, Do bequeath all titles, lands, monies to one Harry Potter."
     
Loading...