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View Full Version : Soulfire vs. Hellfire. Which do you prefer? (SPOILERS)


JohnThePyro
05-07-2008, 11:49 PM
To those that havn't read Small Favor, you may wish to avoid this thread.


So in the end of small favor we learn some pretty interesting things about Dresden, including the fact that he's been gifted with the ability to use soulfire by a freaking archangel.

Now we've seen portions of both Hellfire, and it's counterpart Soulfire, which do you prefer and why?

Ryuugi Shi
05-08-2008, 12:15 AM
Hellfire, because it came with Lash, a hot shadow of a Fallen Angel.

Midknight
05-08-2008, 12:27 AM
Hellfire. Soulfire... meh... seems stupid. Big hand.. great. Now maybe he can use it to make his cock huge and rip Murphy in half and get rid of her.


I mean, hell gives you access to extreme power, destruction capabilities not known.. and heaven gives you.. ability to make a giant hand?

JohnThePyro
05-08-2008, 12:30 AM
Hellfire. Soulfire... meh... seems stupid. Big hand.. great. Now maybe he can use it to make his cock huge and rip Murphy in half and get rid of her.


I mean, hell gives you access to extreme power, destruction capabilities not known.. and heaven gives you.. ability to make a giant hand?

Or anything else, depending on what he wants or needs.

Naked slave girl anyone? :whipped:

uriel
05-08-2008, 12:36 AM
It is only just a hand he can create? I mean he only used it once to smack that dude around.. If he can figure out how to use it to do other things that'd be pretty good right?

If he could use it to create flaming swords of death, or blasts of holy doom or something, that'd be pretty sweet.

IIRC bob said soul fire was what angels use to do their mojo..because angels are... made of... soul (wow that sounds lame), soul fire should be able to do pretty sweet things right?

I mean they go around smiting things/people with it so it should be just as good as hell fire in the blowing shit up and powering spells department, but I guess the fact you have to fuel it with your own soul makes it less useful for long term spell usage when compared to hellfire which seems limitless.

JohnThePyro
05-08-2008, 12:47 AM
It is only just a hand he can create? I mean he only used it once to smack that dude around.. If he can figure out how to use it to do other things that'd be pretty good right?

If he could use it to create flaming swords of death, or blasts of holy doom or something, that'd be pretty sweet.

IIRC bob said soul fire was what angels use to do their mojo..because angels are... made of... soul (wow that sounds lame), soul fire should be able to do pretty sweet things right?

I mean they go around smiting things/people with it so it should be just as good as hell fire in the blowing shit up and powering spells department, but I guess the fact you have to fuel it with your own soul makes it less useful for long term spell usage when compared to hellfire which seems limitless.

From what I remember of Small Favor (granted I was dead tired when I finished it) he can make whatever he needs. However it costs a portion of his soul to do it, so if he uses too much too fast he'll be gone.

Anlun
05-08-2008, 12:48 AM
I'd go with hellfire since it doesn't seem to come with the risk of using up your soul and dying (or worse I guess). Though granted you do lose you soul to a fallen angel but meh I'd still take hellfire.

Jon
05-08-2008, 01:39 AM
-cracks his knuckles.-

So, let's talk Soulfire speculation 101. (lol i did just crack my knuckles irl)

As far as I remember the godhand dresden created simply was created by accident. using my awesome memory i recalled bob using the term matrix in his explaination so voila;

At home, I couldn’t sleep.
Finally I had enough spare time to worry about what the hell was wrong with my right hand.


I wound up in my lab, dangling the packet of stale catnip for Mister and filling Bob in on the events of the past few days.


“Wow,” Bob said. “Soulfire. Are you sure he said soulfire?”


“Yeah,” I said wearily. “Why?”


“Well,” the skull said. “Soulfire is…well. It’s Hellfire, essentially. Only from the other place.”


“Heavenfire?”


“Well…” Bob said, “yes. And no. Hellfire is something you use to destroy things. Soulfire is used the opposite way—to create stuff. Look, basically what you do is, you take a portion of your soul and you use it as a matrix for your magic.”


I blinked. “What?”


“It’s sort of like using rebar inside concrete,” Bob said. “You put a matrix of rebar in, then pour concrete around it, and the strength of the entire thing together is a great deal higher than either one would be separately. You could do things that way that you could never do with either the rebar or the concrete alone.”


“But I’m doing that with my soul?” I demanded.


“Oh, come on, Harry. All you mortals get all hung up over your precious souls. You’ve never seen your soul, never touched it, never done anything with it. What’s all the to-do?”


“So what you’re saying is that this hand construct was made out of my soul,” I said.

“Your soul and your magic fused together, yeah,” Bob said. “Your soul converted into energy. Soulfire. In this case, the spirit energy drawn from your aura right around your right hand, because it fit the construct so well, it being a big version of your right hand and all. Your standard force-projection spell formed around the matrix of soulfire, and what had been an instantaneous exertion of force became a long-term entity capable of manipulation and exertion to the same degree. Not really more powerful than just the force spell, as much as it was more than simply the force spell.”
o/ myself

I prefer Hellfire personally. Lash <3

Chengar Qordath
05-08-2008, 02:27 AM
I would say each one has it's value; hellfire seems to work best when it comes to inflicting raw destruction, while soulfire seems to have more in the way of flexibility.

As far as cost goes, both soulfire and hellfire have their price; soulfire uses your soul as fuel for magic (not as bad as it sounds since according to Bob it grows back pretty quickly), while hellfire seems to corrupt you and make you more prone to destruction and violence.

Personally I'd go with soulfire, since while hellfire is better at destruction it's much more narrowly focused. Of course, if I was Harry Dresden and had to constantly face horrendously powerful magical opponents then the ability to inflict raw destruction might be a lot more important...

QuaziJoe
05-08-2008, 02:57 AM
Until the issue of whether the soul is permanently damaged ( Horcruxes ) or will it replenish itself ( Al in the fullmetal alchemist movie) I'd go with hellfire, it's tried and true so far, if not questionable.

Bob seems to indicate that it shouldn't really matter to Dresden, but he's not on the same wavelength as a normal human so maybe he doesn't fully understand.

Ryuugi Shi
05-08-2008, 03:00 AM
It's been stated that it will replenish itself.

See: "Because it's good for the soul." scene.

JohnThePyro
05-08-2008, 03:03 AM
Until the issue of whether the soul is permanently damaged ( Horcruxes ) or will it replenish itself ( Al in the fullmetal alchemist movie) I'd go with hellfire, it's tried and true so far, if not questionable.

Bob seems to indicate that it shouldn't really matter to Dresden, but he's not on the same wavelength as a normal human so maybe he doesn't fully understand.

Bod said quite clearly that it's not permanent, and that his soul will heal very quickly. Within a week or less.

QuaziJoe
05-08-2008, 03:08 AM
I'm two for two... Ryuggi, now I owe you a brownie.

Aekiel
05-08-2008, 03:09 AM
“Your soul and your magic fused together, yeah,” Bob said. “Your soul converted into energy. Soulfire. In this case, the spirit energy drawn from your aura right around your right hand, because it fit the construct so well, it being a big version of your right hand and all. Your standard force-projection spell formed around the matrix of soulfire, and what had been an instantaneous exertion of force became a long-term entity capable of manipulation and exertion to the same degree. Not really more powerful than just the force spell, as much as it was more than simply the force spell.”This part interests me. From what he's saying the giant hand was actually just a normal spell, but with the benefit of lasting longer because of the soulfire. Seems to me that soulfire doesn't just add power, it 'levels up' (for lack of a better term) the spell so that it can do more. Kind of like the difference between Fire and Fira in the Final Fantasy games.

So my thought is, what could it do for other spells, since it made the Force Projection spell manifest into an actual spiritual hand. Would Harry's fire/wind spells be improved upon? And how exactly would that be done? Then again, destructive spells like that seem to be more in hellfire's area of effect. Could faerie fire be mimicked like this? Perhaps his wind spells could be given edges to form blades, or made into localised tornadoes. (I really can't think of anything more for wind >_>)

Adding on to the force projection manifestation though, he could probably manipulate it into being pretty much anything he can think of, so things like spears and bows could be manifested instead of just parts of his body.

I think way too much on these things. Also, I prefer hellfire >_>.

Aekiel

JohnThePyro
05-08-2008, 03:17 AM
destructive spells like that seem to be more in hellfire's area of effect.



Don't count Soulfire out. Remember, even Mab is afraid to cross the Archangels, and their weapon of choice seems to be soulfire.

Anything that scares the fucking queen of darkness is okay in my book.

Jon
05-08-2008, 05:56 AM
<_< simply put

Soulfire + fugeo + boomstick = napalm strike.

Aekiel
05-08-2008, 06:29 AM
Don't count Soulfire out. Remember, even Mab is afraid to cross the Archangels, and their weapon of choice seems to be soulfire.

Anything that scares the fucking queen of darkness is okay in my book.

What I meant was that hellfire was more inclined towards destruction than soulfire, given the boost to Harry's fire spells since he picked up Lash. So logically soulfire should be less suited to the kind of explosive spells Harry tends to favour. It's still fucking powerful, don't get me wrong, but it's not as suited to violence and combat as hellfire is.

@Jon - Soulfire + fuego = a fucking comet.

Kai Shek
05-08-2008, 07:20 AM
Hmm, I'm going with Soulfire myself. I don't have a need to destroy many things in daily life, but the ability to create? Now that could be useful.

I only just got access to the last four books in the series and read them all in three days... yummy.

Do either Hellfire or Soulfire have side effects by themselves?

I know that having a fallen with hellfire has side effects, but does using there powers change you the same way?

Sol
05-08-2008, 10:20 AM
Hellfire seems to predispose you towards responding with violence when it might not be necessary, or more violence than is necessary. Of course there's also the fact that you also have to have a Fallen Angel trying to steal your soul to use it. That, and you'd probably get tired of smelling rotten eggs all the time.

Soulfire probably can manifest the raw destructive power of Hellfire. The price being that it's supply is limited by the amount of soul you have (wow, that sounds retarded). It's all in how you use it.

I'd probably have to go with Soulfire, since it's more versatile but hey, why not both? Need more Lash.

Chime
05-08-2008, 01:25 PM
What's stopping Harry from using both at the same time?

JohnThePyro
05-08-2008, 01:38 PM
What's stopping Harry from using both at the same time?


A possible angry archangel who's pissed that Harry's uniting with the enemy of everything he and his lord stand for?

Kai Shek
05-08-2008, 01:56 PM
What's stopping Harry from using both at the same time?


The guy gave it to him just like that, I'm sure it can be taken away just as easily.

Skykes
05-08-2008, 03:20 PM
What's stopping Harry from using both at the same time?

Not 100% but I think Harry cant use hellfire since Lash defended him from the physic attack.

JohnThePyro
05-08-2008, 03:23 PM
Not 100% but I think Harry cant use hellfire since Lash defended him from the physic attack.


I hate to take this off track, but I think theres a strong possibility Lash is still there, if only a little. He still has her parting gift of playing music with his hand, which was originally gifted by Lash.

She may appear again in the next book :o.

Ryuugi Shi
05-08-2008, 03:48 PM
Well, Jim has stated that he wasn't done with Lash, so, yeah, we'll see her again. However, I doubt it will be in the next book, and I also doubt hellfire mix well with soulfire. They strike me as being like matter and antimatter.

JohnThePyro
05-08-2008, 05:37 PM
Well, Jim has stated that he wasn't done with Lash, so, yeah, we'll see her again. However, I doubt it will be in the next book, and I also doubt hellfire mix well with soulfire. They strike me as being like matter and antimatter.

:O really? When/where did he say this? I must see :D.

Ryuugi Shi
05-08-2008, 06:10 PM
It was at one of his book signing's I think. I saw it on Jim's Forum's, and It'd been confirmed. But other then that, I don't know (mainly because it would take weeks to search that site; it's huge).

Aekiel
05-08-2008, 06:47 PM
Playing music wasn't a gift from Lash, as far as I remember. It was what Butters told him to do as a form of physical therapy for his burnt hand, so any skill he has is from practising day in day out.

Aekiel

Ryuugi Shi
05-08-2008, 07:10 PM
Yeah, but with out Lash, he couldn't play well.

I can't remember the exact quote, but it was something like, 'I hold the instrument; sound comes out. I'm not sure if I'd call it music, though.'

Kalas
05-08-2008, 07:33 PM
Lash's 'last' gift to Dresden was giving him enough skill to take music he heard in his head and play it on the guitar.

As for the actual debate.

Hellfire is a destructive power up, as an example Harry's normal Fuego attack becomes bigger, more destructive and harder to control. Excellent for a Black Wizard but not something a responsible Warden would be gunning for.

Soulfire, in essence, is adaptability that most Senior Council Members likely don't have. Take the recent example of the Soul!Hand. All the power of Harry's Fozare attack but instead of a simple Point-A-to-Point-B-gunshot form it had the control and adaptability of a literal hand.

So, while Hellfire is cool and appeals to our dark, twisted impulses, I'm casting my vote to Soulfire.

Also in the final confrontation, when Harry casts Pyrofuego did anyone else get a Soulfire!Fire vibe from it?

JohnThePyro
05-08-2008, 08:21 PM
Hellfire is a destructive power up, as an example Harry's normal Fuego attack becomes bigger, more destructive and harder to control. Excellent for a Black Wizard but not something a responsible Warden would be gunning for.



Also, Harry and Molly still have the doom on their backs, so this is a even more important fact.




Also in the final confrontation, when Harry casts Pyrofuego did anyone else get a Soulfire!Fire vibe from it?


Nah, I got more the feeling that he was just using his emotions to power something he otherwise wouldn't have been able to. In Dresden-verse emotions power magic, so it makes sense.

Kalas
05-08-2008, 08:31 PM
You've got a good point John. It was probably the white fire/ripped right through a Denarian that inspired that fantasy.

Edit: he is John I am Jon. :P

Aekiel
05-09-2008, 02:48 AM
Got to remember he's always been pretty good with his fire attacks, especially when he goes over the edge, so to speak. Like when he killed Bianca and all her merry bunch of vampires :D. Burn you greasy, bat-faced bastards! Burn! My favourite quote in all the books.

On music. Damn, guess I forgot that part. Would be nice though, being able to play what you hear.

Aekiel

Magus
05-11-2008, 11:32 AM
I'm going for Soulfire, while Hellfire appears to give spells more oomph, I can imagine Harry casting Fuego and creating some sort of fire based construct or shouting "Ventas Servitas" and creating hundreds of razor sharp blades of wind, or perhaps a tornado.

As regards to the question of which poses more risk to your soul, Soulfire's probably Dresden's best bet as it only uses up a bit of your soul that can be easily replenished, while to use Hellfire you've either got a shadow of a fallen angel making you more violent and trying to get you to join the dark side, or your soul is already property of the geezer down in hell. Either way, Soulfire seems like the best choice.

I also doubt that Soulfire and Hellfire could be used together, plus while the Blackened Denarians might not have any problems with Dresden switching between the two, I doubt the Archangel's would be particularly chuffed with Dresden using their gift alongside with the power of hell.

Aekiel
05-11-2008, 04:32 PM
To be honest, I reckon that the Archangels/God would care more about intentions than whether he uses the power of hellfire or not. You've got to admit though, in a battle hellfire is generally the better option, because he knows what spells he is using but they're a good bit stronger than they should be, which is not something to sneeze at.

Soulfire may have the diversity part down to pat, but with that comes the need to practice it so that you know what you're doing. Hellfire is just an improvement on your everyday violent spells. Simple, effective, and not much can stand up to a hellfire-fuelled pyrofuego without being way too powerful for Harry to fight on his own.

Aekiel

Skykes
05-11-2008, 05:40 PM
All valid points, but ultimately we cant know which is better as it is unknown the entire limits/perks of either.

Kalas
05-11-2008, 08:49 PM
@Aekiel: After re-reading the part this afternoon I'm certain Pyrofuego was Soulfire.

Aekiel
05-12-2008, 04:39 AM
It does seem to have been a bit more powerful than it normally is, though I'm not entirely certain that it was soulfire and not just him juicing it up with the emotions from Michael's injury/possible death. Thinking your best friend is dead, bound to wind up a few negative emotions.

Plus, Harry has a history of using exceptionally powerful fire magic when he goes over the edge, so to speak.

Aekiel

Kalas
05-12-2008, 05:54 PM
Exceptionally powerful yes. But this was on the level of something Luccio was doing in her original body, except more epic. The descriptions also make it seem almost like solid fire.

Aekiel
05-12-2008, 06:26 PM
How the hell can you have solid fire? Remember Harry's description at the start of the book, just because it's summoned magically doesn't mean it won't act like normal fire outside the constraints of a spell. Besides, it isn't described as being actually solid, just so densely packed that it almost is.

Another part that goes against soulfire is the lack of after effects he feels from using the pyrofuego. When he used fozare combined with soulfire it took part of his soul (specifically the part around his hand) and he couldn't use it for a while, but with the fire spell there were no symptoms hinting at his soul being used in the spell.

It could be that it was actual soulfire, but I'm leaning more on the side of Harry becoming more powerful/skilled with his fire spells and this being the result of all that practice with the added boost from his anger and hatred.

Aekiel

Evan Tide
05-14-2008, 02:04 AM
Based on what we know so far, Hellfire has much better combat applications while Soulfire has unknown abilities and a seemingly harsher penalty.Though I guess I'll pick Soulfire for the fun it shall provide.

Kai Shek
05-14-2008, 05:58 AM
Soulfire has no penalty unless misused by using it in abundance. It's like having mana but instead, a soul. You use a little bit, and it replenishes, only difference is if you use all your soul, it doesn't replenish.

With hellfire, using it just once changes you and your personality, and how you handle things.

Ryuugi Shi
05-14-2008, 03:22 PM
But when Harry used it, he couldn't use one of his hands. Believe me, that's a bitch of a disadvantage in a fight. And just think about what would happen if your legs stopped working. Or your eyes.

If your in a fight, you'd die.

While using Hellfire could change you (I, personally, thought that was Lash's doing), I'd rather be angry then dead.

Kalas
05-14-2008, 04:39 PM
Harry lost the use of his hand because he took most of the sould from it to form the Soulfire!Hand. If he had just used bits of sould from all over his body I believe the problem could be averted. Not to mention Harry got some use of his hand back when he used magic.

In aspects of personality changes I always thought of Hellfire basically being Black Magic.

Gabrinth
05-14-2008, 05:09 PM
With Hellfire you eventually give up your soul forever to the devil- Harry would have soon enough had Lash not been destroyed/mostly destroyed.

Soulfire uses up the soul, but as long as you don't use all of it, you can replenish yourself.

I think that dying because you use soulfire too much and going up to heaven for eternity is better than not dying for a bit longer and then going to hell- or be taken control of by a fallen angel- for all eternity.

Aekiel
05-14-2008, 05:56 PM
The way I understood it is that it was the choices you made that sent your soul downwards, not the hellfire itself. Like choosing to use hellfire was one step on the path, using Lash's memory to read the Word of Kemmler was another.

It wasn't the hellfire tainting your soul with every use, it was just your choice to use it that did the damage, cause it let the Fallen further in. That fits more with how the Fallen work I imagine, since they have to have your permission to send your soul south.

Aekiel

JohnThePyro
05-14-2008, 08:42 PM
From what I heard, it wasn't the fact that he used soulfire that caused the loss of use of his hand, but rather the fact that the Archangel invested his power into Harry at that moment. Thats why when he meets him in the hospital chapel his hand goes all tingely when the angel says he 'lent him a hand'.

Ryuugi Shi
05-14-2008, 09:08 PM
Re-read the talk with bob at the end. The part about using his soul, and the part around his hand.

Darth_Revan
05-16-2008, 10:16 AM
Well, unless Lash is somehow still lurking around in his mind, which I doubt, because Anduriel tried to get her to subdue Dresden on the boat and it didn't work (either because she didn't want to or because she wasn't there), he can't use Hellfire anymore. It's gifted to the Hosts by the Fallen. If she isn't there...no more Hellfire. By the way, it is so far infinitely cooler.

On the other hand, not much is so far known about the Soulfire except that if you use to much, you kill yourself, which seems to be somethign of a liability. It's also used for creation, which could be useful, but I'm wondering about it's usefulness in a fight, which has been pointed out before. Another thought, though, is that it may very well be used to negate the power of Hellfire, and vice versa, reducing the Denarians to kickboxing. At the same time though, Dresden picked Namshiel up with the Soul!Hand, and threw him about, and Namshiel didn't seem to be doing anything about it, either because Dresden caught him distracted/weak/both or because his Hellfire doesn't actually negate the Soulfire-enhanced spell.

Soulfire seems to me to be something to be used only to enhance a spell you would otherwise be creating, because they are in essence creation magic. Hellfire, be contrast, is of destruction, and enhances spells steeped towards the act of destruction.

Basically, I think the Jury's still in debate on this one...but as of right now, I think I would go with Hellfire, because I think it's more suited to Dresden's current situation and needs in terms of magics. In the long run, though, I think Soulfire is more in keeping with his goals and personality traits.

On the other hand, maybe there's some compromise to be hand, and he could use both. Go figure. Just look out for th enext book to shed some light on the issue....

Dryden
05-20-2008, 03:00 PM
Why should we assume that soulfire can only be fuelled by the part of Harry's soul that is around a body part? Why couldn't he use the part of his soul that holds his desire to use black magic? Better yet, assume Lasciel returns, why couldn't Harry essentually summon her shadow?

RJL333
05-20-2008, 05:04 PM
On the topic of his hand going numb, couldn't it have been from sleeping gas that was getting released? It says on page 271 thatthe end of his nose had gone numb, it could be possible that it affected his hand also. The odds are that it was the soul fire but it could be the gas. Also I would pick soul fire because of it is versatile.

Aekiel
05-20-2008, 05:50 PM
On the topic of his hand going numb, couldn't it have been from sleeping gas that was getting released? It says on page 271 thatthe end of his nose had gone numb, it could be possible that it affected his hand also. The odds are that it was the soul fire but it could be the gas. Also I would pick soul fire because of it is versatile.

No, the gas hadn't been released at that point. He'd interrupted Thorned Namshiel setting up the canister and circle so it couldn't be that.

Blackstaff
05-20-2008, 10:09 PM
Why can't he have both hell's fury and heaven's wrath. Sounds good to me

Darth_Revan
05-21-2008, 02:06 PM
Why can't he have both hell's fury and heaven's wrath. Sounds good to me

It seems to me that that would be like wielding matter and anti-matter in close proximity. Put simply, good plus bad equals large explosion.

Gabrinth
05-21-2008, 05:46 PM
You people don't seem to understand that Hell is a fucking BAD place. Harry uses soulfire in the name of God, he goes to Heaven. Harry uses Hellfire in the name of himself, he goes to Hell. It is, really, as simple as that. Both kick ass in different ways, and Soulfire has the least amount of consequences- Who cares if he dies if he uses too much? At least he ain't in hell for eternity...

Aekiel
05-21-2008, 08:58 PM
You people don't seem to understand that Hell is a fucking BAD place. Harry uses soulfire in the name of God, he goes to Heaven. Harry uses Hellfire in the name of himself, he goes to Hell. It is, really, as simple as that. Both kick ass in different ways, and Soulfire has the least amount of consequences- Who cares if he dies if he uses too much? At least he ain't in hell for eternity...

And if he uses hellfire to protect an orphanage full of children? Oh wait, silly me. It's not what you do with the power, it's just using it that makes you a bad person. How could I have been so naive? It's not like we have free will or anything, so we can't actively choose to use ambiguously evil powers for good. Not at all.

It's not like soulfire could kill people. I mean, we've only seen it create a hand big enough to crush someone. No way you could twist that to evil means.

Now that I'm done being sarcastic I can say that it's the choices you make that send you down the road to hell. It's pretty much the biggest message of the New Testament, and I assume Butcher is going for the Big Friendly God rather than the Big Wrathful God of the Old Testament, given he employed Michael. Using the power doesn't mean you're going to hell. It's primarily the intentions behind your actions that blacken your soul enough to send you Down.

Aekiel

Demons In The Night
05-21-2008, 09:39 PM
snipQFT

Also, Hell doesn't exist. The Bible is a book of fiction written by men in the dark ages when superstition and supernaturalism ruled the world, before the advent of science and enlightenment.

Suggested reading: David Hume, Spinoza, Hobbes, Sagan, Dennett, Dawkins, and Hitchens, just to name a few.

Dryden
05-22-2008, 01:14 AM
Well, nice to know that you have an overwhelming urge to put your atheistic views forward, but that's not at all what we are talking about.

It is fairly reasonable to assume that using hellfire will corrupt you. I reason that the purpose for lash giving hellfire to Dresden is for that very reason. With that in mind, i will say that soulfire has its costs and benefits. It is fueled by your soul which is, according to the series, a finite, recharging resource. Hellfire, on the other hand, is fulled by hell itself. The way i read it, when Dresden would use it, he would use none of his own power. It's the metaphorical power outlet as compared to a battery.

Without knowing anything else about the special abilities of soulfire, we really can't compare them any further.

PS. The bible wasn't written in the dark ages. The old testament was written at least a thousand years previous, and the new testament was canonized at least 200 years before the dark ages began (i seem to recall the beginning of the dark ages to be ~800 AD, but i might be mistaken.)

Demons In The Night
05-22-2008, 02:13 AM
Well, nice to know that you have an overwhelming urge to put your atheistic views forward, but that's not at all what we are talking about.You're welcome.



PS. The bible wasn't written in the dark ages. The old testament was written at least a thousand years previous, and the new testament was canonized at least 200 years before the dark ages began (i seem to recall the beginning of the dark ages to be ~800 AD, but i might be mistaken.)Fine. The OT was written in the bronze age or whatever. The NT a lot later. It doesn't change the fact it was still written by men who knew absolutely nothing about the world they lived in. The Bible is a relic of the pre-enlightenment age, and thus should not be taken seriously. Some of the morality tales and stories are decent, but Genesis is wack, and some of the shit in the OT is pure evil. Commited in the name of God of course. See the book of Joshua, Judges, Deuteronomy, etc.

JohnThePyro
05-22-2008, 08:55 AM
You people don't seem to understand that Hell is a fucking BAD place. Harry uses soulfire in the name of God, he goes to Heaven. Harry uses Hellfire in the name of himself, he goes to Hell. It is, really, as simple as that.


It's nice to know that you're taking your personal views on life and end-life and applying them to a book much more complicated than you would like it to be.

Aekiel
05-22-2008, 10:42 AM
Why are we getting into a RL discussion on the Bible when this is a thread about a fictional book that assumes it is 'real'? If you're gonna bitch about personal views take it to one of the fifty other threads where people can bitch and moan for/against religion.

Aekiel

Demons In The Night
05-22-2008, 02:51 PM
Sorry dude. Didn't mean to hijack the thread.

I'm just passionate when it comes to these things.

Immolo
05-22-2008, 04:08 PM
It is fairly reasonable to assume that using hellfire will corrupt you. I reason that the purpose for lash giving hellfire to Dresden is for that very reason. With that in mind, i will say that soulfire has its costs and benefits. It is fueled by your soul which is, according to the series, a finite, recharging resource. Hellfire, on the other hand, is fulled by hell itself. The way i read it, when Dresden would use it, he would use none of his own power. It's the metaphorical power outlet as compared to a battery.

Without knowing anything else about the special abilities of soulfire, we really can't compare them any further.
Hellfire isn't fueled by Hell. It is powered by the Fallen Angels or if you only have the shadow of a Fallen Angel inside you, like how Harry did, then it is fueled by your own soul, just like soulfire is. If you want proof check pages 443 and 444 of White Night.