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WIP Alexandra Quick and the Thorn Circle by Inverarity - K+

Discussion in 'The Alternates' started by ray243, Jun 23, 2009.

  1. ray243

    ray243 Seventh Year

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    It will be interesting to ask Inverarity whether he intended Claudia to be her sister from the beginning or not.
     
  2. Meneldur

    Meneldur Third Year

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    I see where you're coming from Sesc, but I can't find myself agreeing completely. I agree about your first point, that it'll always seem like retconning. But you're judging too early to decide there's a problem with the fact itself. I've gone back a bit and re-read, and already I've seen stuff that makes a lot more sense with this explanation. And honestly - we don't know enough. I've offered a few ideas regarding why Claudia hid as Alexandra's mother, but until we're actually told why this was done, I'm reserving judgement on whether I like it or not. The entire point of this book (supposedly) is Alexandra and Stars Above - and part of that is why Abraham swore to protect her from the Stars Above, which seems to be part of the reason Claudia did what she did.
    So, until we learn what caused this, I don't think it's right to judge whether we like it or not.
     
  3. Sesc

    Sesc Slytherin at Heart Moderator

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    Well, yes it is. Because I can't seem to like the fact itself, and that will always be there, regardless the reason.
     
  4. ray243

    ray243 Seventh Year

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    I've went back to reread parts the earlier parts of the book and the prequel, and it does seems that Claudia is well aware of her adopted daughter being a witch.

    More importantly, it does put the way I saw the prequel "Don't Like Peas" in a whole new light.

    Speaking of which, why the hell is the surname of Claudia Quick? Why did she stop using her own surname?
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2012
  5. Meneldur

    Meneldur Third Year

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    Huh. Well, that's different, I guess. I was under the impression you weren't that sure it was about the fact itself ("Or maybe it is about the fact itself as well" is not a definite statement in any way).
    In any case, I still can't agree with you, since your reasoning seemed to be that Claudia was a main character, and I really don't see that. She's no more main character than Thalia, Archie, Brian, Bonnie or any other daughter of Abraham Thorn. In fact, (besides Max, who's dead) Julia is the family member who has the greatest effect (not counting Abraham, who is practically the reason for every plot), and I would still hesitate to call her a main character.

    So, as I see it, the only main characters so far are Alexandra, Anna, C&F, and possibly David and Innocence. The only thing that happened here is changing Claudia from a minor character to a somewhat more important character, but still nowhere near Anna or C&F.
     
  6. Sesc

    Sesc Slytherin at Heart Moderator

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    /sighs

    I am not sure. I'm trying to figure out what my problem is and it doesn't really work, but the fact of the matter is that I don't like Claudia now being her sister.

    Also, you don't think Claudia is a main character? I'd say the very fact that what she is can have this much of an impact on the story proves it. If she was just a minor character, no one would care, but this gives the entire story a new direction, and in just one paragraph. That's not something a minor character can do.
     
  7. TeaSpoon

    TeaSpoon Squib

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    I'm guessing that Claudia is a squib. That explains why she doesn't want to get involved with Alexandra's school life.

    [EDIT] If this is true, she'd be like a lesser version of Livia. Where Livia is a witch and a doctor, Claudia would be a squib and a nurse.
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2012
  8. Inverarity

    Inverarity Groundskeeper

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    Yup, this was planned since book one. If you read carefully, the clues have always been there, right down to Claudia's name.

    If you aren't convinced that I pulled it off, or don't like the twist, then my weakness as a writer is to blame, but it's not a retcon.

    Sorry that I don't comment more, though I do enjoy the discussion. :) But I try to avoid influencing what people think of the story with extra-textual authorial declarations, at least until after the whole thing has been posted.

    FWIW, there's another twist in this book that one of my betas hated. (She got over it, but she still doesn't like it.) YMMV.
     
  9. Meneldur

    Meneldur Third Year

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    Possibly. But considering Claudia's role as Alexandra's mother, any revelation about her would have a large impact on the story. Frankly, I don't like it much either, especially since we already have way too many unsolved mysteries just for this book, and I can't help but fear the ending chapters will be packed with revelation upon revelation which will get tedious and boring. Still, I'm trying to reserve judgement, because a) we still don't know enough, and b) I don't think it really makes the mystery of Claudia greater. I always thought Claudia's whole story was very suspicious - how Abraham met her, her odd half-knowledge of the Wizarding World, all those little things which Alexandra never asked. This revelation reduces all these mysteries to one that is rather simpler - why did Claudia pretend to be Alexandra's mom. Once that is answered, no doubt all other questions will be answered as well.

    Meanwhile, on to the next chapter: What do you think Alexandra will do? I can't help but feel that since she can't get to her friends or to Julia, she'll do something amazingly stupid, like call Diana. Either that, or Abraham will show up and do something.
     
  10. ray243

    ray243 Seventh Year

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    Why do I get a feeling that Alexandra doesn't really have a real mother? I got this feeling that Alex's birth is a result of Thorn messing with magic and the stars above.
     
  11. Sesc

    Sesc Slytherin at Heart Moderator

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    Eh, not sure if it's got something to do with actual writing skills, Inverarity. Maybe I simply don't like plots with Big Revelations in the middle. I am you father, Luke -- didn't terribly impress me either.


    That aside, my money is now on Diana Grimm being Alex's mother. Surprisingly enough, that one I would swallow readily and without complains. It's from where they're coming that's the difference -- Claudia always had an important role, whereas Diana Grimm would merely be upgraded to one. Maybe that's my problem, I don't like important roles changing in the middle of the game.
     
  12. Meneldur

    Meneldur Third Year

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    You know, considering the old theory that Diana and Lilith were Abraham's daughters from the first marriage, that's ironically fitting. I suppose this new incarnation of the theory fits as much as the previous one did.

    Although again, I have to disagree with you. Maybe Claudia had the more important role, but if so, it was her natural starting point. Until now, Claudia's actions seem to have had little to no effect on Alexandra, whereas Diana is practically Alexandra's nemesis, and seems to influence her life and decisions a lot more than Claudia.
     
  13. Ched

    Ched Da Trek Moderator DLP Supporter ⭐⭐

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    For the record I quite like the twist. There was always something that bugged me a bit about Claudia, ever since Book 1. Not enough to make me think right off that Claudia wasn't Alex's mother, but enough to make me feel like the author had some strange ideas about how moms would behave.

    This explains it all quite nicely. Though I do sort of hope that Alex comes to realize that in a way Claudia is still her mother (in the sense of she was sort of adopted by her), but that can wait a while. Especially considering all the lying and whatnot that's gone on.

    Another revelation Inverarity? I assume it won't be Wizard!Archie? :)

    Edit: At least I like the twist right now -- guess it depends on where it goes. But yeah :)
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2012
  14. Meneldur

    Meneldur Third Year

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    It definitely makes a lot of sense, especially (as ray243 mentioned) considering the short story 'Don' Like Peas'. I have to wonder if Thalia knew... looking back on it, the off-screen conversation they had in the third book would be really interesting to read. Was it just an explanation on how Claudia should handle the Wizarding world, or might it have been an explanation on how to actually be a proper mother to Alexandra?
     
  15. Ched

    Ched Da Trek Moderator DLP Supporter ⭐⭐

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    I can easily believe it was planned since Book 1. Claudia and Livia both end in "ia" which may or may not have been intentional, but I think I picked up on it subconsciously in hindsight.

    But now I want to know where the heck Quick came from -- Archie's last name is Green (or Greene, I forget). Livia's last name is Pruett (which makes more sense than Quick, given the wizarding name). I thought they were full sisters (as opposed to half-sisters), but I may have been wrong there? If they were half-sisters I'd assume Quick was her mother's maiden name -- a muggle? I assume Quick wasn't a description of the act itself, so... Any ideas?

    Edit: Also I've just realized that at midnight when the next chapters are supposed to come out I invariably remember and check various places (starting with Schoogle) to look for them. Mark of a good story in my book, geez.
     
  16. Inverarity

    Inverarity Groundskeeper

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    On Mondays and Fridays, I post chapters to MNFF and FF.net at the same time, usually in the morning right after I get up. But FictionAlley has an automatic system, so I have to upload it the night before. Chapters in FA's queue get posted at 3 a.m. EST, IIRC. I'm not dedicated enough to stay up until 3 a.m. just to make sure chapters appear everywhere simultaneously. :p So yeah, there's the secret to getting an advance peek - it will usually appear on FA first. (Unless FA's queue is broken, which happens occasionally.)
     
  17. Koalas

    Koalas First Year ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    Alex is her own mother through Time Turner shenanigans. Calling it right now.
     
  18. Meneldur

    Meneldur Third Year

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    Oh, are we planting Epileptic Trees now? You should have said:

    Abraham transformed himself into a woman and impregnated himself.

    Alexandra is the daughter of both Diana and Lilith through an obscure magical ritual which utilizes the power of twins.

    Abraham impregnated the spirit of the Earth Mother (she told him about the Lands Below), who gave birth to Alexandra. The Stars Above are the sworn enemies of the Earth Mother, so they're trying to do in Alexandra.
     
  19. Ched

    Ched Da Trek Moderator DLP Supporter ⭐⭐

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    :facepalm !
     
  20. Inverarity

    Inverarity Groundskeeper

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    **takes notes for book five.**