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Old 08-16-2010, 04:19 AM   #1
X Kronos X8
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Darkhallow

I just had a few questions about the darkhallow, because I'm not sure if I just missed the answers, or they weren't specified.

1) Can the Darkhallow be performed more than once? For example, it acting like a stone table for the user.

2) Would the user of the Darkhallow get a weakness like the Fae and iron after performing it?

3) Would the user be plagued by any of the rules or restrictions in place for higher powered beings, even if the user is mortal?

4) If the user was a wizard, and he gained the large amount of power the Darkhallow provides, would his or her magic recovery rate increase, or remain the same?

5) Would the souls used in the darkhallow effect the user? For example, the user absorbed more good souls then evil/ dark ones. Would the user have his or her personality changed?

6) Would the ritual give the user immortality, or other special abilities? Or is it the only thing it provides is raw power?

7) What is the range of the Darkhallow? If performed underground, would it be able to reach the surface to retrieve the souls?

Anyways, if someone could answer any of those, I'd really appreciate it.
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Old 08-16-2010, 06:32 AM   #2
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1) Why not? It is just a ritual to steal power from others (and kill them in the process).

2) Probably depends on what kind of power (and spirits) the caster absorbs.

3) There are no universal restrictions on higher powers. Some are more restricted than others and many have probably no magical limits. So the answer is no.

4) I would say that once a wizard has absorbed the Darkhallow, his every spell would be like a Death Curse, except that he wouldn't die because he has so much more power to call on. So, yes, his power recovery rate would increase. Although wizards don't really have a set recovery rate as it depends on their surroundings...

5) Darkhallow probably doesn't even absorb souls. If it would, White God would likely wtfpwn everyone who tried the ritual.

6) I once debated this with Taure. It depends entirely on whether the power absorbed is natured/tainted/whatever or just plain energy.

7) That is up to the author.
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Old 08-16-2010, 06:33 AM   #3
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As far as I remember:

1) No such thing was mentioned, therefore I assume it is possible for someone to perform the ritual more than once.

2) The only result of the Darkhallow is gaining power. Lots of power. Enough to rival minor gods. The darkhallow from Dead Beat was special due to the circumstances and would make Harry, if he were to finish it, on the same power level as Mab.

3) I am not sure what do you mean by those restrictions. Most of supernatural beings are restricted to the old ways of conduct because Mab said so. Those who do not conform face her wrath...

4) I assume that a good dinner and a night of sleep is enough for a wizard to fell recharged in the morning. It's the soul that needs days or even weeks to fully recharge.

6) The result would be the power boost only. Actually, semi-immortality would be a side effect as well. Wizards tend to live for centuries, until they are killed in battle or until they are unable to recuperate from illness.

7) In Dead Beat it was said that the ritual sucks all life force in a mile radius(?) or so. About the underground?? no bloody idea...

edit:
Damn, ninjaed
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Old 08-16-2010, 09:44 AM   #4
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The other points have been covered well enough but #6 stuck out at me since we don't know whether more magic means better healing, though my assumption is that since magic is effectively life force it would probably give him a much longer lifespan than normal for wizards. That said, he'd also have moved directly into the major leagues because of it, and there are a ton of creatures in there you really don't want to mess with.
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Old 08-16-2010, 10:42 AM   #5
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Perhaps makes him like shagnasty, with his own ley line and other shit
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Old 08-16-2010, 01:26 PM   #6
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Unlikely, since ley lines are static things from whence magic springs, whereas the Darkhallow is basically just a very big vacuum for all the spirits in the area to be collected inside then eaten.
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Which pretty much tells you everything you need to know about Mother Winter, right there.
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Old 08-16-2010, 01:54 PM   #7
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If the Darkhallow gains its power from absorbing souls, would it be possible to absorb a Denarian, or would the White God's power prevent that?
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Old 08-16-2010, 02:04 PM   #8
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If the Darkhallow gains its power from absorbing souls, would it be possible to absorb a Denarian, or would the White God's power prevent that?
Darkhallow absorbs spirits, not souls. Angels don't have spirits as they are all soul.
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Old 08-22-2010, 01:17 AM   #9
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Darkhallow absorbs spirits, not souls. Angels don't have spirits as they are all soul.
Not to mention that, even if it could effect them, angels are almost certainly way too powerful to get eaten by the Darkhallow ritual in the first place. In relative power terms, it would essentially by like a normal human trying to eat one of the Faerie Ladies or Queens (depending on what type of angel we're talking about).
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Old 08-22-2010, 09:21 AM   #10
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Remember that the Erlking himself was dragged into it, and he's more powerful than the Ladies by a fair margin (enough to put him up as a peer of Mab, according to WoJ), so I could see an angel potentially being sucked in, assuming it's possible.
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"Mab," said Mother Winter in a tone of pure disgust, "is too much the romantic."

Which pretty much tells you everything you need to know about Mother Winter, right there.
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Old 08-22-2010, 10:51 AM   #11
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Remember that the Erlking himself was dragged into it, and he's more powerful than the Ladies by a fair margin (enough to put him up as a peer of Mab, according to WoJ), so I could see an angel potentially being sucked in, assuming it's possible.
The Erlking is said to be as powerful as Mab (her equal), but his power is over the gobelins and to call the Great Hunt: meaning he can summon hunters and spirits of old hunters to join him. He doesn't have power over the angels no matter how powerful he is.

The Erlking only increase to potency of the ritual, he isn't a mandatory part of it.

Like Random Shinobi said, the Dark Hollow ritual allow it's user to absorb dead spirits to boost his power, since angels are not spirit (they are soul) they cannot be absorbed by the ritual.

EDIT: Where in dead beat does it say that the Erlking was going to be sucked by the ritual? They use him only to summon the old spirits of hunters.

Last edited by Tylendel; 08-22-2010 at 10:56 AM.
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Old 08-22-2010, 12:47 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Tylendel View Post
The Erlking is said to be as powerful as Mab (her equal), but his power is over the gobelins and to call the Great Hunt: meaning he can summon hunters and spirits of old hunters to join him. He doesn't have power over the angels no matter how powerful he is.

The Erlking only increase to potency of the ritual, he isn't a mandatory part of it.

Like Random Shinobi said, the Dark Hollow ritual allow it's user to absorb dead spirits to boost his power, since angels are not spirit (they are soul) they cannot be absorbed by the ritual.

EDIT: Where in dead beat does it say that the Erlking was going to be sucked by the ritual? They use him only to summon the old spirits of hunters.
That's not the point at all. The Erlking is a peer of Mab (Word of Jim says so, though he's not capable of taking her in a fight), yet he was still sucked in by the Darkhallow. That implies that the Darkhallow is powerful enough to take down even extremely powerful beings like the Erlking, and thus possibly others of his power level (and possibly above).

That said, I haven't claimed that it would happen, just that should it be possible for angels to be drawn in, power level wouldn't make much of a difference.

Also, I vaguely recall Harry spotting the Erlking amongst the maelstrom created by the Darkhallow, though maybe my memory is faulty.
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"Mab," said Mother Winter in a tone of pure disgust, "is too much the romantic."

Which pretty much tells you everything you need to know about Mother Winter, right there.
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Old 08-22-2010, 03:13 PM   #13
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So, here's my take:


1) Yes. In fact, I believe a fan asked this of Butcher once, and he responded with something like "How do you think Mab got her power?".


2) I don't think so. It seems to be a power infusion, not a "transform me into a different creature" deal.


3) I would say not, which is one of the big advantages of it. For all her power, Mab is pretty powerless, because a) there exists an equal an opposite force to her, there to balance her actions and b) she is still bound by the rules of her kind. Humans are free agents, so a godlike human would be pretty boss. (Dragons appear to be pretty independent too).


4) I would imagine that the recovery rate, proportional to the power, would remain the same. So (if we pretend for a moment that this kind of thing can be represented by simple maths) if the wizard's recovery rate was 2% a minute, I think this would remain the same. However, because the pool of power is much larger, in absolute terms the amount of power they are recovering is much greater.


5) Pretty much the same as 2.


6) Possibly. I don't think that the ritual would directly give the user immortality. However, I think any being with that kind of power should be able to generate their own immortality. I also don't think that the wizard would receive any kind of special abilities or affinities that they haven't given to themselves via use of the power. Magical power is magical power, it doesn't seem to come in different flavours (with the possible exception of necromantic power e.g. what Bob shows Harry). If Harry uses magic drawn in from the environment to fuel his magic, it doesn't appear to change his magic - or his person - depending on the nature of the environment.

7) Pass.
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Old 08-23-2010, 10:47 PM   #14
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That's not the point at all. The Erlking is a peer of Mab (Word of Jim says so, though he's not capable of taking her in a fight), yet he was still sucked in by the Darkhallow. That implies that the Darkhallow is powerful enough to take down even extremely powerful beings like the Erlking, and thus possibly others of his power level (and possibly above).
Are you sure about the bolded part? I don't remember that. Don't have the book with me to double check either. I was always under the impression that the only reason the Erlking was summoned was so the Darkhallow could feed on the hunter spirits that the Erlking called.
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Old 08-24-2010, 12:06 AM   #15
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In regards to the Erlking/Darkhallow discussion, no, he was not sucked in by it. The whole reason he was summoned is because with his presence, ancient hunter spirits come, and those can get sucked in by the Darkhallow.
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Old 08-24-2010, 12:13 AM   #16
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Erlking was there to summon the extra powerful hunter spirits in the area. Remember, the older the spirit the more powerful. Erlking is not directly necessary for the Darkhallow ritual, but without the spirits he calls it is far, far less potent. Thus Harry trying to summon the Erlking so Kemmler's disciples couldn't unleash the Hunt and rile those spirits up. Those same spirits took out a couple of rookie Wardens, and there were lots.

Erlking himself is not a spirit. He's a Wyldfae. He wasn't going to be sucked in by the Darkhallow. I'm not sure what this magical recovery stuff is. Do you mean the physical recuperation like Harry's hand? Because Wizards don't have to magically recuperate. Unless they are in a circle they have access to the magic around them. They can wear themselves out with the focus it takes to cast spells, but there's no 'magic core' inside. Yes they can draw on their own life force, but I believe that this is generally inadvisable.
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Old 08-24-2010, 01:34 AM   #17
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Erlking himself is not a spirit. He's a Wyldfae. He wasn't going to be sucked in by the Darkhallow.
Are you saying that faeries don't have a spirit? Humans have both spirit and soul, and nobody has ever mentioned that a Changeling would lose their spirit in the transformation to Sidhe. So, it would make sense for a faerie to have a spirit.
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Old 08-24-2010, 02:06 AM   #18
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Are you saying that faeries don't have a spirit? Humans have both spirit and soul, and nobody has ever mentioned that a Changeling would lose their spirit in the transformation to Sidhe. So, it would make sense for a faerie to have a spirit.
Does it matter? If memory serves, the Darkhallow only absorbs ghosts/spirits, and the magical backlash is what kills all the humans. It's been a while since I last read the book, but I definitely remember the backlash of the completed ritual being the dangerous part.

Fae, excepting those like Bob who have no corporeal form, shouldn't be able to be absorbed at all.
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Old 08-24-2010, 03:48 AM   #19
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I'm not sure what this magical recovery stuff is. Do you mean the physical recuperation like Harry's hand? Because Wizards don't have to magically recuperate. Unless they are in a circle they have access to the magic around them. They can wear themselves out with the focus it takes to cast spells, but there's no 'magic core' inside. Yes they can draw on their own life force, but I believe that this is generally inadvisable.
If only it were that simple.
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Old 08-24-2010, 05:27 AM   #20
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Does it matter? If memory serves, the Darkhallow only absorbs ghosts/spirits, and the magical backlash is what kills all the humans. It's been a while since I last read the book, but I definitely remember the backlash of the completed ritual being the dangerous part.

Fae, excepting those like Bob who have no corporeal form, shouldn't be able to be absorbed at all.
I always thought that the Darkhallow killed by ripping away the spirit. If ordinary humans couldn't fuel the ritual, why perform it in the middle of a big city?
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