1. DLP Flash Christmas Competition + Writing Marathon 2024!

    Competition topic: Magical New Year!

    Marathon goal? Crank out words!

    Check the marathon thread or competition thread for details.

    Dismiss Notice
  2. Hi there, Guest

    Only registered users can really experience what DLP has to offer. Many forums are only accessible if you have an account. Why don't you register?
    Dismiss Notice
  3. Introducing for your Perusing Pleasure

    New Thread Thursday
    +
    Shit Post Sunday

    READ ME
    Dismiss Notice

1st or 3rd Person?

Discussion in 'Fanfic Discussion' started by Dark-Stallion, Jun 4, 2008.

  1. Dark-Stallion

    Dark-Stallion Professor

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2007
    Messages:
    426
    Location:
    England
    The advantages

    1st Person;
    · Ability to explore the characters thoughts, senses and feelings of a situation becomes enhanced
    · Adds a slightly different feel to a story, and seems to be more original when compared to other, mostly 3rd person, fics
    · Can become involved with the story, as an author, and become less detached
    · Freer narrative
    · Ability to ‘talk’ to the reader

    3rd Person
    · Easier to develop characters appearance and hold an observer’s view on the plot/story
    · More interesting? Ability to be more creative and less restricted in relation to the movement of the plot (Doesn’t focus on one main person all the time)
    · Usually omniscient narrator, giving the ability to go ‘in-depth’ in description
    · Easier?

    The Disadvantages

    1st Person
    · Focus is limited, especially in this genre where subplots hold great value
    · The protagonist can often become a mirror of the writer
    · Dependency on the articles (I, my etc)
    · Narrowed vision of the ‘big picture’ or plot

    3rd Person
    · Impersonal, oftentimes seems to simply be a basic narrative which is restricted and too contrived/tautologous
    · Common?
    · Easy? Labelled as a disadvantage for I use FanFiction as a writing exercise, and surely it would be better to push ones boundaries (This one is applied to myself, not the general populous for some seem to find it easier to write in 1st person)

    This is just a summary, and I would like your opinions on both; as readers and writers.

    Some of the best reads I have had have been in 1st person (Clockwork Orange being one of them) and I would love to try and write in 1st person; however, it feels rather constrictive when trying to delve deeper into description with it being limited to the protagonists understanding.

    Just and interesting point I wanted to discuss with you people, and I am looking forward to your views.

    Cheers, Dark-Stallion.
     
  2. CaptainG

    CaptainG Third Year

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2006
    Messages:
    95
    Location:
    Cambridge, UK
    My opinion is that 3rd person is a safe option in most writing.

    It's easier to write a 3rd person narrative successfully, and to create a world with intrigue is easier.

    However, when a 1st person narrative is written well, it is much more effective in the emotions in the story. The connection that you feel with the character is so much enhanced, and it allows you to find out things in ways that don't feel too forced.

    However, to a discerning writer, it is possible to make subtle first-person-esque insinuations through the 3rd person structure. Free Indirect Discourse is a great tool, and other similar methods create a sense of attachment with the character, and because it comes from an impartial supposedly allknowing narrator, it has a sense of gravitas that isnt found in a 1st person narrative that is often cheapened by needless humour.

    3rd person allows for dramatic irony, which is my favourite device ever.

    I think that with either you can do things that you can't witht he other (obviously), but 3rd person provides the most oppertunity. If you want to expand your writing, try writing a complex and challenging 3rd person piece.

    In the context of fanfiction, 3rd person imitate JK Rowlings style (and hence is whored by fangirls), so anything different is bound to get the attention of readers. Which is good.
     
  3. NightFox

    NightFox Seventh Year

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2007
    Messages:
    206
    Location:
    New York
    As a writer, I've lately perused the aisles of First-person, mainly because of the depth that one can achieve with the protagonist, at the cost of the other characters. First person opens up the road to the reader itself, keeping them involved with comments at the reader rather than retelling the tales of character to character.

    Third-person however, comes with its obvious advantages. In third person, thoughts of all characters can be easily depicted (omniscent) or the ability to retain singular character thoughts are permitted (limited). Subplots are facilitated well enough, by simply jumping locations to follow another character entirely.

    When I write third or first person, I like to think "What will this character be doing?" If the answer rotates around events that exist to boggle the protagonist's mind, and bring in characters that exist to confuse the reader, and essentially, the protagonist, then I pursue first person. When I'm looking for a more all-encompassing adventure story where character interaction is paramount, third person is my preferred route.

    First person does sometimes seem a little less "adventurous" to read and more "mystery" in my experience/opinion, but that might be a personal ideal over anything factual.
     
  4. Antivash

    Antivash Until we meet again... DLP Supporter Retired Staff

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2005
    Messages:
    6,957
    Location:
    Ghost Planet
    Really, it all depends on the author.

    A lot of third person stories can be pretty awesome with all that they set up and show the reader as it happens. That you aren't limited to the main character's thoughts/feelings can be a bonus, as well.

    Though I personally prefer stories with more character based themes. So First Person is more my area. It lets you show a lot more of how the character thinks and feels, where you're a lot more limited in 3rd.

    So it depends on both the plot and the author, really.
     
  5. Dark-Stallion

    Dark-Stallion Professor

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2007
    Messages:
    426
    Location:
    England
    Any examples of a combined attempt? Perhaps trying to capture both the advantages... The only thing that comes to mind is Ulysses by James Joyce (He did use every type of literary technique though...)

    Perhaps a story with Harry as the narrator retelling his life story, and dipping into 3rd person as a method to show flashbacks? Just an idea that might be interesting/original...
     
  6. Aekiel

    Aekiel Angle of Mispeling ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2006
    Messages:
    1,511
    Location:
    One of the Shires
    High Score:
    9,373
    I've been writing a third person fic on and off for months now and I keep finding myself getting annoyed that I can't go into first person without breaking the flow of the damn thing >_>. Things like world-wide conflict don't really translate into first person that well, especially when the protagonist can't take a handy look into the enemy's head.

    I think in first person and have to translate it into third... It's quite annoying. Probably not a good sign for my sanity if I can get into the head of Harry Potter though.

    Aekiel
     
  7. Joe

    Joe The Reminiscent Exile ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter ⭐⭐⭐

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2008
    Messages:
    1,016
    Location:
    Canberra, ACT
    High Score:
    1,800
    First person is great, yet a heavy limitation is that it can ruin a story if the perspective is switched to another character. I've been trying my hand at first person, and its sort of on the border of - is this a narrative (is the character writing this down like a book) or is it following in the character's head - like a narrator to his own life.

    Yeah, I think that made sense....

    Point is, first person is good - but it's hard to percieve other characters and get into the story if you're only switching to them to input an observation/plot driver. It just fails at that point.

    Third person has a lot more freedom, yet not as much connection. It can be fun though, real fun.
     
  8. Dark-Stallion

    Dark-Stallion Professor

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2007
    Messages:
    426
    Location:
    England
    Yeah, I was looking at your 'Wastelands of Time' as one of the better examples of 1st person FanFiction.

    I've tried both for the epilogue of the plot bunny in my head, and, while writing 1st person was indeed fun, my style is to describe in an omniscient style- something which isn't really possible unless your main character is God or something...
     
  9. Tehan

    Tehan Avatar of Khorne DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    May 22, 2007
    Messages:
    3,742
    First person lets you write more casually. People don't think with proper grammar. Well, most people don't. So you can get away with a stream of consciousness once you get into the mind of the character, instead of having to neaten it up into a more scholarly third person voice.
     
  10. Skeletaure

    Skeletaure Magical Core Enthusiast ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2006
    Messages:
    2,819
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    High Score:
    13,152
    Personally, I think first person is much easier to write than third.

    In third person, you continually have to keep the prose exciting, lest the story feel more like a dry essay.

    In first person, the point of view lends itself to story telling, and so you do not have this problem.
     
  11. Jenkins

    Jenkins Forum Bike DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2006
    Messages:
    1,245
    Location:
    Australia.
    I prefer to write first-person, though it is harder to do right. It makes it easier to go more in depth with emotional and mental explanations.

    I'm writing one fic with first-person and one with third at the moment (neither are good but experience and all) and I just happen to prefer writing the first-person one.

    It makes it better to turn into a more personal fic, so you can put a little bit more personality into the characters if you ask me.

    Anyway, as Vash said, it depends on the author and the story. I'll always prefer a well-written first-person story though, just because I feel the main character is moer easy to relate to.

    Of course, it can always end up as epic fail.
     
  12. Mors

    Mors Denarii Host DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2006
    Messages:
    814
    Location:
    Somewhere they dont haet teh leet.
    Writing first-person is fun and easy for me, and it doesn't require quite as much effort to turn it into something other than epic fail. Third person is... heavier. Takes a lot more to get the momentum off the ground.
     
  13. Sesc

    Sesc Slytherin at Heart Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2007
    Messages:
    6,216
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Blocksberg, Germany
    I believe Vlad used it that way in For want of a Wand (how's the next update coming, btw?) Also, I'm trying to combine it -- Harry in first person, and other people in third person. Whether or not it will fail on an epic scale remains to be seen.


    I find it funny how different it is viewed in terms of effort and easiness; I myself found first person much harder. It requires a huge amount of discipline while writing, e.g. you have to choose if you're writing from a sort of retrospective way, like the main character telling the story to others after it happened, or if you are writing it while it happens (what Joe said).

    If I wasn't paying attention there, I found myself constantly switching between the two, which made for a very bad read afterwards. It's like that because you're used to that from writing third person -- example:

    Two letters arrived. The first brought good news. As Harry opened it and started reading ... etc. etc.

    That is perfectly alright. It's the narrator telling us the first letter carries good news. However, if you convert that 1:1 into first person, it's:

    Two letters arrived. The first brought good news. As I opened it and started reading ... etc. etc.

    Which isn't the same at all -- since Harry knows that it brought good news before he opened it, it automatically moves the perspective to a Harry that is telling his story after it happened, because otherwise, he couldn't haven known about the letter -- even if that wasn't your intention when writing it.

    That's what I meant about discipline, you have to check every sentence and ask yourself if the character could've known that, could've seen this etc.


    The obvious advantages of first person have already been named -- the reason why I chose it was that you lose the distance to the character, which is here like the ultimate way to do things, because from an outside POV the character would seem simply insane, however from the inside you use a twisted logic, and the reader doesn't even realise it until he steps back and thinks about it. It makes for a much more intense read.
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2008
  14. Dark-Stallion

    Dark-Stallion Professor

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2007
    Messages:
    426
    Location:
    England
    That... might be my problem. I found that my 1st person version seemed consticted and rather un-realistic in the approach. I think that it is because I over complicated it, not following a less contrived stream of consciousness. Oh well, I'm still tempted to write it in a combined style, but will stick with 3rd person for the time being (for this fic, at least).

    Cheers, Dark Stallion.
     
  15. kmfrank

    kmfrank Denarii Host DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2008
    Messages:
    760
    Location:
    Ann Arbor, MI
    I'm a bit surprised that no one has mentioned second person - ala jbern's Bungle In The Jungle.

    Similar advantages to 1st person perspective, I think, but its a way of writing that can totally throw your reader through a curve.

    Of course, if memory serves, then jbern faced a bit of opposition to the style in the early reviews.
     
  16. Dark-Stallion

    Dark-Stallion Professor

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2007
    Messages:
    426
    Location:
    England
    Don't like 2nd person, you seem to just skip out the reader... but feel free to express the good/bad points if you wish.
     
  17. Warlocke

    Warlocke Fourth Champion

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2006
    Messages:
    3,051
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    The armpit of Ohio
    Well, there's Inevitable, a Harry Potter/Anita Blake (Vampire Hunter) crossover.

    The Vampire Hunter books are told in first person from Anita's POV and the Harry Potter books, while generally told from Harry's POV, are in third person.

    Thus, Inevitable handles sections devoted to Anita and the Vampire Hunter characters as first person from Anita's viewpoint, whereas Harry's sections are told in third person. Of course, sometimes we'll see a scene from one POV, then again from the other.
     
  18. Verminard

    Verminard Seventh Year

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2007
    Messages:
    280
    I think one done in the 2nd person, present tense would be really cool.
     
  19. Tehan

    Tehan Avatar of Khorne DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    May 22, 2007
    Messages:
    3,742
    Thing with second version, it breaks immersion the very moment the character does something you wouldn't.
     
  20. Lyndon Eye

    Lyndon Eye Minister of Magic DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2007
    Messages:
    1,358
    Location:
    Washington, DC
    jbern's second person POV was interesting, but I think I prefer the traditionally First/Third person more.

    To answer the question of which one works better, I think it depends entirely upon your strengths as a writer and the genre of the story.

    First Person- I can see this working well with mystery/romance/angst type stories, especially if the writer is great at being realistic in tone/thought process.

    Third Person- this definitely works well with action/adventure/thriller, and other fast-paced genres with many pieces to the plot. If plot is your strength as a writer, then go with this one and take advantage of a third-person omniscient perspective so you can add in plenty of twists, irony, and carefully control how much is revealed to the reader (as opposed to the characters).
     
Loading...