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Old 08-10-2012, 02:37 PM   #2601
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AD taric surprisingly good on dominion.
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Old 08-10-2012, 03:13 PM   #2602
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I don't think Diana needs nerfs. Her mana costs seem very low, but at the same time I find it easy to go oom.

Her farming is strong, but there are still tons of mids that can outpush her and force her to lose cs.
Her damage is high, but not really absurd. Her level 6 power is strong, but at least it's heavily skillshot based and you don't have to deal with akali who will fuck your shit up.

Her survivability is low for a melee. It isn't as bad as katarina or akali vs oracles, but the shield is present to make up for the lack of escape. You can still pull some decently epic jukes with her ult, but not really in a teamfight. I think the shield could possibly use some changes, because the procced shield gives you 310+.8, which is very high base and scaling. On the other hand, lux's aoe shield is 360+.7 and has been for awhile.

Her CC is both amazing and shit. It syncs well with tons of other aoe ults and makes ganks/kills very possible. At the same time, it doesn't do anything to help you escape unless you can time it just right and aren't cc'd yourself.

Her ult is amazing and may get a slight range nerf, but it lacks the constant mobility you get from other assassins like kass/fizz/akali.

That said, I still think she is incredibly fun.

If you're having issues countering her, here are some things I've found to be difficult to deal with.
In the jungle: if Diana doesn't get to successfully gank a lot or cover lanes for significant amounts of time, she just isn't a large threat come late (or even mid, really). Ward early and problem solved. Her jungle speed isn't that crazy, so you can counterjungle her. I like taking wraiths as mid because it slows her down significantly. If you find her in the jungle, most enemy junglers beat her 1v1 if they just run from the shield.

In lane: Like most melees, she is easy to bully around with AAs when she tries to last hit, and crescent strike has to be one of the slowest skillshots ever. If you force her to crescent strike for a few cs at a time, you're ahead. Heavy pushers counter her pretty well. Malz/Morde/Sion/Gragas can give her a hard time. As mid lane, the biggest thing is to follow her when she ganks. You will lose quickly if you stand around in mid while she runs out to gank bottom.

A few things I like when playing Diana:

1. Wraiths. I farm both my wraiths and the enemy wraiths whenever possible. In one game where my jungler was focused on top+counterjungling, I got so many wraith camps that I hit 6 an instant after the enemy hit 5, and he hadn't died or gone back at all.

2. Tankiness. You're going to be in the thick of things. It would be cool to two shot corki, but cooler to 5 shot him while tanking their team. I like Abyssal/Lichbane as a core. It gives you very high damage output while also making you all but immune to the enemy mid's damage. GA/Zhonyas/RoA all help you deal with your lack of escapes.

3. Initiating. The 8-900 range ultimate is amazing. I won a game last night while we were behind 21-36 with an initiate. Ult in, moonfall-->Leona ult-->lux ult-->malphite ult-->corki. We got 4 people with it and turned the game around so hard.

This ended up way longer than I wanted it to be, but hope this helps someone.
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Old 08-10-2012, 03:29 PM   #2603
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I don't even know how we went on to win this game. Honestly, I just don't. For those asking, Ryze & Teemo called bot, I couldn't be bothered jungling so I went Sona & ended up with GP who couldn't last hit, ignored my wards and died twice to Lee Sin early on. Thankfully Varus was either trolling or an utter moron otherwise I reckon we would've been crushed more than we were in the late game. Long story short, I got annoyed and switched from support to AP, did a bad job of it but meh. Comeback happened when we won a 2 vs 4 by our Nexus (both towers down, they got cocky and attempted to go for the ace), we respawned and we spam moved down there to take out their nexus just as they started getting up, steamrolling Morgana who was just up again when we got there.

TLDR; How the balls did we win? Also look at Varus' build. I'm so confused.



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Old 08-10-2012, 06:26 PM   #2604
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So I played my first game for months, with Anivia. From what I saw from Diana, dunno wasn't too much problem to take down, but maybe I got a stupid one...
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Old 08-10-2012, 07:58 PM   #2605
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I've only faced one anivia and her dependence on the blue buff for pushing made it a relatively easy match up for me. Not enough experience with the matchup to know for sure though

I'm watching a PBE stream and the katarina model looks fine, but her run animation looks like complete shit. She holds one arm back behind her and the other in front of her face. It looks retarded.
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Old 08-10-2012, 08:52 PM   #2606
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Fuck that Garen nerf
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Old 08-10-2012, 10:24 PM   #2607
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Fuck that Garen nerf
Minor early game nerf for major late game buffs.
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Old 08-10-2012, 11:31 PM   #2608
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So I played my first game for months, with Anivia. From what I saw from Diana, dunno wasn't too much problem to take down, but maybe I got a stupid one...
Just had a similarly bad match up from the Diana side. Her passive really threw my earlygame off, plus their Hec camped mid haha.

But yeah HoS you got a bad one. Any competent Diana should be 250+ cs at 45. Farming machine.
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Old 08-11-2012, 12:13 AM   #2609
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Weirdest match I've had today.

Varus (Me), Riven (Top), Poppy (Trolling us top), Ahri (My support), Diana (Mid)

vs

Warwick (Top and getting fed off Poppy), Varus (AP Mid, not kidding here), Jayce + Corki (Bot and both building damage), Diana (Jungle)


Somehow, Ahri and I murdered the shit outta Corki and Jayce bot, ending laning with 7 kills for me and sniping out any enemy's HP bar by 33% with my Q by lvl 5.

Go mid and help Diana 3v4 the enemy WW, Varus, Corki, and Diana and take out 2 towers. Then the enemy surrenders despite having more over all damage, CC, and durability than us.

Maybe because I already finished IE, BT, and Zerk Greaves by 20 minutes in while spamming wards.
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Old 08-11-2012, 02:03 AM   #2610
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Minor early game nerf for major late game buffs.

I don't see his late game power making him viable at that stage of the game, even with the buffs, whereas his early game dominance is going to be hurt by the nerf to spin.
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Old 08-11-2012, 03:22 AM   #2611
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I don't see his late game power making him viable at that stage of the game, even with the buffs, whereas his early game dominance is going to be hurt by the nerf to spin.
Actually, his spin didn't even get hit that hard.

From:
50 / 90 / 130 / 170 / 210 (+1.4 per bonus attack damage)

To:
20/45/70/95/120 + 70/80/90/100/110% of total AD

Let's say you're going into lane with 13 AD and 16 AR Pen (Runes + Masteries) and started boots + pots.

Garen base AD = 58.

Total AD = 71.

Current damage would be 68/s at rank 1. New damage would be 70/s at rank 1.

Rank 2. Same items and runes still since this is lvl 3 Garen.

lvl 3 Garen base AD = 64.

Total = 77.
Current E Damage per second = 108
New E Damage per second = 107

A loss of 1 damage at rank 2, totaling 3 damage for full duration.

Rank 3 without items:
Current: 148
New: 145
Lost DPS: 3, total 9

4:
Current: 188 DPS
New: 184
Lost DPS: 4, total 12

Rank 5 E Damage:
Current: 228 DPS
New: 225 DPS
Lost DPS: 3. total 9

Over all, the nerfs for Judgement in damage difference is in the single digits, with rank 1 E actually being stronger.

This isn't even factoring in the base damage boost to Q once you level that up a little or the fact that Q can crit now or that Jdugement gets 100% bonus damage from crits instead of 75%.


This round, just add in 1 Doran's Blade that you get at say lvl 5:

Rank 3:
Current: 162
New: 154

Rank 4:
Current: 202
New: 194

Rank 5:
Current: 242
New: 236

Total damage loss never goes over 25. Once you hit 7 and get ranked 2 Q, you'll actually only lose 8 damage total in trades.

If you apply defenses on top, since a ton of people stack armor vs Garen, the damage difference drops back into single digits again.


Now, let's assume that you got Last Whisper, Phage, and Hex Drinker along with your runes. That'd be 96 more AD.

Without 96 AD and maxed E at lvl 18, that'd would give damage as:

Q Rank 5:
Current: 295
New: 335

E Rank 5:
Current: 345
New: 346

It'd take 100 AD on Garen, without factoring crits, for current to out-damage new one in just an E spin contest. It'd take about 200 bonus AD for current Garen to out-pace new Garen in a 1v1 fight. Even then, if they're both critting the same amount, New Garen shreds old way fast because it's now 100% of total AD on E crits instead of 75% of bonus AD.


Over all, it's very minor nerfs for Garen while giving him a higher output late-game.
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Old 08-11-2012, 09:57 AM   #2612
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17-0 Katarina.

You're welcome, team. You're welcome!
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Old 08-11-2012, 10:35 AM   #2613
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Did the other team have ANY CC? :S
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Old 08-11-2012, 10:38 AM   #2614
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ItT sounds kind of egotistical, but streaming and commenting on your own games (while you play, and later when you review with notes) really helps. By talking out loud I remember to do things I should do anyway, but get too focused trying to CS or gank anyway. Not coincidentally, my elo went up probably 70-80 points yesterday, and not just because Mordekaiser top is ridiculously strong.

Warding the enemy jungle and lane is expensive, but one game I denied Shyvanna ganks pretty much all game by stealing her red. Once you have WOTA you can take red without losing life, and many gankers either need it, or think they need it and spend a lot of time farming (dangerous for other reasons, but if the entire top jungle is warded it is much less dangerous) and gank less often.

Of course that only works as blue team, since as purple the opposing jungle is blue buff, which mid wants badly enough that after 2 steals or so they will ward it themselves. Mordekaiser has such strong farm though, that if my jungle has strong ganks, I can buy pinks and deny vision. Some games I almost think about getting an oracles because I have so much money.

My main problem so far is my inability to deal with straight AD bruisers. Played a Garen who just wrecked me with the help of his Lee Sin jungle, even though we won that game. Mordekaiser farms superbly (often I outfarm singed) so you can afford a few deaths, and if the mid champion is half life or less, with a level 2 ult plus decent items for midgame (sorc. Boots, WOTA, magic armor debuff aura) often I can burst down mid then take tower. Playing Mordekaiser is really playing an objective game, because he can push to towers and down them very quickly. After my tower is down, I move to other lanes and gank and push towers down there.

Wards are the key to this gameplay though. If you don't ward at least top bush and red bush, don't do it. If you can ward wraiths, red, and top bush after t1 tower is down, you're golden to get farm on red, golem, and wraiths. Mordekaiser is really good st stealing red too, E to start, then Q to kill the little minions, then Q or E as necessary to keep your shield up and kill red. I think the strategy becomes much less useful as your opponents get more skilled (the number of times they didn't check bush while I was stealing...) But by the same token, with that vision up in their jungle yours should also be there and ready to steal their creeps.
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Old 08-11-2012, 11:35 AM   #2615
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Feel like I'm on tilt, been playing so badly over the last couple of days. Haven't lost everything, but I don't feel like I've had much of a positive impact on any of the games I've played. A lot of negative impact though, especially when playing Support, which I normally would have said is one of the roles that I play best.

Think I need to practice more or do something to improve my mindset.
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Old 08-11-2012, 10:05 PM   #2616
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All Those Korean Teams.

Koreans too stronk.

But then, you know, pro gaming in Korea is actually, you know, seen and supported as a pro sport by much of the populace. Here in America (and I assume much of the UK) it's still something for palefaced basement dwelling unwashed nerds.

=.=
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Old 08-12-2012, 01:43 AM   #2617
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Why is Karma not viable? I've played a total of 2 real games with her, but so far her laning power is absurd. In team fights I've had some problems with her range, but for every missed kill I've saved a teammate. What holds her back from being competitive?
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Old 08-12-2012, 02:14 AM   #2618
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Why is Karma not viable? I've played a total of 2 real games with her, but so far her laning power is absurd. In team fights I've had some problems with her range, but for every missed kill I've saved a teammate. What holds her back from being competitive?
Karma is very much a viable midlaner who has some insane early burst/survivability and if her teammates actually know what her freaking tether does, she has loads of utility. She is very strong with champions that are very good at catching others like Skarner, Udyr, Mundo or Shyvana. She has really strong wave clearing abilities and her passive makes her deceptively strong.

At the pro scene, you do not see Karma because she has no hard cc and her ultimate just does not quite make the mantra-version of her abilities stand out besides shieldbomb and to a lesser extent, the heal. They need to make the mantra Fan and mantra thether more useful and perhaps give her more Mantra charges or have them up more often.
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Old 08-12-2012, 11:54 AM   #2619
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Why is Karma not viable? [...] What holds her back from being competitive?
She's not bad exactly... it's more that she doesn't really fit current team compositions, while other champions do. There's also a bit of a stigma there too; she's been out of favour for so long that everyone assumes she must be bad, because if she wasn't then surely people would be playing her. I think she's more of a Trundle than a pre-rework Evelynn or a Heimerdinger.
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Old 08-12-2012, 06:01 PM   #2620
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Heimerdinger.
Oh Heimer. How I miss you so.... First hero buy ever.
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