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Website programming langauge: where to start?

Discussion in 'Tech Support' started by Joe's Nemesis, May 26, 2014.

  1. Chime

    Chime Dark Lord

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    1,958
    I think you have two major choices, C# with ASP.net or PHP. They are extremely comparable despite being very different beasts.

    PHP is getting a little undeserved hate here. It's a solid language with a few quirks. Yes, you will need to master a few quirks, like understanding how to do good comparison logic, but it's not like you won't need to master this skill for Javascript anyway.

    I would say ASP is too complex for a beginner. You need to set up IIS and configure ASP. You need Visual Studio. You need to understand C# very well, C# is a fully oop language, which makes it more complex than PHP. The biggest upside to using ASP is Visual Studio's debugger, which is second to none.

    PHP is much more intuitive to a beginner. It has objects, but it's not quite as conflated with keywords... I would really recommend it for beginners. You can easily write a log-in mechanism with PHP and it's intuitive to open connections with a db to save information about your site. C# is much more involved (but don't get me wrong, ASP is very powerful).

    CSS is something you may need to know if you want a "perfect" looking website. Javascript you will have to learn if you want any client-side script functionality. XML or JSON are "languages" you may also need to know if you need to pass any objects between server and client. It doesn't sound to me like you'll be need something this complex. HTML should be straight-forward -- and if your site doesn't need much more than a log-in page, then you can maybe hardcode the entirety of the site in it.

    Oh, and while I doubt it, you may need to pick up a tiny amount of SQL. If you need to save information to a database, like usernames and passwords, you'll want to set up the right table structure, and understand how to make the database secure. Don't put any raw SQL on this group's site, do read up best practices for that.

    At my place of work, I have seen first-hand the same beginners pick up PHP with ease and struggle with C#. There might be additional barries I don't quite "get".

    The only reason you should use PHP/C# is if you need a dynamic site.
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2014
  2. Lord Ravenclaw

    Lord Ravenclaw DLP Overlord Admin DLP Supporter

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    Lets not get into a language war here. PHP is simple for a beginner. Is it pure? No. Is it a good language? No. Does it underpin half the web (DLP&PatronusCharm included)? Yes.

    DLP's properties are almost entirely PHP with the exception of the DLP API (Java/Scala). PHP is excellent to hit the ground running with.

    A basic website does not need an appserver architecture which really adds to confusion. C#/ASP.NET, Rails, Django, Java, all of these pretty exclusively center around building a server application which is available over HTTP. PHP makes things easy by pushing that burden entirely onto your HTTP server which then invokes PHP (or a pool of PHP processes) to execute files in your directory. That's powerful! It's hard to find too many other languages that can boast that kind of fast deploy / iterative development cycle. You can run a PHP stack on your local computer with a basic installer these days. Comes with PHP/Apache/MySQL. WAMP/LAMP as it's usually called.

    Believe me, I work on Java/Scala appservers all day every day. I still miss PHP sometimes. The language is terrible, which is partially why Facebook has been writing the Hack language, but don't get bogged down by language wars. Rails and such are nice steps up from PHP, but you need to get familiar with building webapps first.

    PHP, just do it. Ask us again when you move to adding a database component to your application and we'll guide you through not getting SQL injected. PHP lets you write total shit code, but that's okay -- your goal is putting up a page, not bulletproofing your architecture.
     
  3. Joe's Nemesis

    Joe's Nemesis High Score: 2,058 ~ Prestige ~

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    I really do appreciate all the advice and help here.

    The last time I was into actually learning a computer language, I was typing:

    10 print "I am writing code for a computer!"

    20 goto 10

    on my brand new Adam Computer.
     
  4. Nauro

    Nauro Headmaster

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    Gah!



    I think I've started anything web development related with PHP, and it is a shitty thing to use, although it was what helped to build the base of my programming skill to use other, better tools.

    Although, be warned (again), if you choose to start with PHP, you might soon find yourself coding bullshit solutions for bullshit reasons and growing into terrible habits you will be hard pressed to leave behind whenever you move on to something more professional.



    There's no other good way of raising your abilities than trying, though. Good luck with whatever you choose.
     
  5. Alindrome

    Alindrome A bigger, darker mark DLP Supporter Retired Staff

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    I was taught PHP as a module in university recently, and took to it about as well as a brick to water. I think this is the problem for me - being taught it formally, they placed such a heavy emphasis on security and the need to produce something maintainable that even the very first thing I did in it was 80% bullshit bullet-proofing measures and 20% solution.

    I don't think there's much coming back from that; PHP will always be on my shit-list. Is there anything you PHP lovers could show me that would make me change my perspective?
     
  6. enembee

    enembee The Nicromancer DLP Supporter

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    Nobody actually loves PHP, but this, essentially.
     
  7. Oz

    Oz For Zombie. Moderator DLP Supporter

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    Yeah, I've no doubt that vBulletin has firmly cemented Raven's hatred of php, but for small simple stuff it's fine.
     
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