I’m at lynch order Cuth/Fonti/Shadow/Newcomb/Fable/Dya/Vaimes/Stanari/me.
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You should play more pokemon I guess. The release was right as my early weekend started, so I may have indulged a bit.

 

I disagree with Dya being so high but you can probably persuade me otherwise.

 

No I cannot. I’m about to sleep. Maybe someone else can though.

 

Thinking about cfding onto shadow.

 

Eww, Dya naked switching gives me the creeps.
Vote Dya
CFD anyone?

 

Stare intensifies.

 

Kinda think it's just Dya/Fonti.
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Like come on, if your town, look at how Dya has approaching me since I came into this game. It been purely about keeping that sweet sweet mislynch alive as her team mates get gunned down.

 

Really? You think that's a thing? I could CFD onto you!

 

You voted her for "blank voting" but like, no? That's not what she did, except in the most literal, unsympathetic sense?

Also, dya and I are pretty clearly not both scum, so maybe try to convince me?

In fairness to you, dya has had the same read on me (she feels like WH) for the entire game, and that sketches me out. But you're sketching me out more rn.

 

That is exactly how the wolves are treating me. Read any of my posts yet?

 

Rip. There was something else I was about to ask you but I can't remember what it was...wait no I do. You're the Miner Expert, right? Does he ever make his null tier just three partners? (I assume you won't be able to answer this today, but food for thought tomorrow?)

This is hilarious.

 

Literally anything I do: She's a wolf! String her up! She thought I might be a wolf!

Like, do you do any thinking about this or do you just OMGUS?

 

No, I'm saying I don't really think it's fonti/Cuth?

Unless you're talking about another list of his in which case, link?

I'm not... entirely sure how much weight I'd give to like, "Miner wouldn't clump up a bunch of his partners." It's a strike against, probably, but not a strong one.

Here's why I think dya is mafia.

The two main threads I'm seeing are:

1) read rigidity

2) tonal negativity

Both of them share a kind of... posturing element. It's the first thing that I'm leaning on here - that dya's reads come first, reasons second, and are pushed as a narrative with a fair bit of scum motivation. Of particular note is the "rigidity". This is something Visor picked up on D1 - Dya's reads (and to a less meaningful extent, her tone) have an aspect to them where their conviction doesn't seem to change/react to the thread in a meaningful way.

For example:

First reads of the game. Then this exchange:

If you follow the thread of her Zack townread, you can see that it's a constant pivot off being questioned on her "unrestricted and having a lot of fun" thing. This is the rigidity I'm talking about - she keeps the actual "content" of the read, Zack=town, though this whole thing. There's no questioning of Stanari/GH angles with their pokes at this, just a kind of meta conversation to defend the original angle she went with.

Later in D1:

Compare to her first reads. The same, no progression or changing strength level / conviction, except she's added fonti. I'll get to this later, but I encourage people to read her "font's Zack case feels like the recent WH' thing and track that entire thread. It's a little long to quote fully, but it's another example of what I'm talking about - dya being engaged/talked to about a read of hers, kind of... shuffling the goalposts a bit, but keeping the actual actionable part of the read intact and not angling into the nuance of /why/ those differences came up.

Recall that dya's original shove at Vira was that she was "really, really awkward."

Again - this keeps the narrative/content of dya's stance - "dya is anti-Vira", but the mindset behind it is opaque. Awkward, moved to "hasn't moved the game forward, to "shallow or off-topic questions."

To me, this shows that dya was more invested in getting the content of this early shove "on the record", as it were, than she was in actually really figuring out Vira's alignment.

GH, who at this point was a fairly major D1 target, gets a few thoughts, but again there's that opacity to dya's mindset here. Generously, you could call 2 a town thing and 3 a wolf thing, but there's no oomph or drive to go beyond this kind of casual statement.

Proph, who earlier was tagged by dya as "awkward," now gets "hedgy" and "interesting reads."

Once again - see how dya doesn't take that further and either modify the strength of her Proph read, or take the step to consider Jari's alignment relative to Proph's here, it's just like.... "Proph bad. Someone else said Proph bad. Proph still bad."

Doesn't read as a particularly genuine solving mindset to me.

And here. It's like a mirror image of when she sparred with Stanari and GH over her early Zack townread. It's a statement of action, not of investigation. See what I mean? The drive of this post, if dya is a villager, is... what, exactly? If you're in a position of no information - you're a villager with no experience with Player X - and a bunch of people say "this is normal for Player X", how does that inform your play? I mean, it does, doesn't it? It makes you think. What if Player X is mafia and I'm being gaslighted? Is there a point where someone's just spewed town? It changes the weights and the levers and the calculus. And you can see this process being played out as your read on Player X changes, either solidifies or develops or weakens or whatever.

But reading dya's ISO w/r/t Vira that's not what I see at all.

Here, she's expanding on her "Proph is awkward" read. Notice how the nuance/expansion of read (giving him a hedge townpoint "did a bad thing in maybe a good way" type read) is glossed over and not actually added to the ledger of the read (I'll hit this part later when Proph shows up again). And then:

Joke/RVS votes, when she's had three fairly serious wolfreads in Vira, Proph, and fonti. Doesn't add up. There's nothing inherently wrong with joking around like this, but if you're putting yourself in town!dya's head and trying to grant her the level of conviction she's repping in these early reads, it doesn't quite fit, for me.

I've got rehearsal tonight and I don't have enough time to do the full dya ISO I was hoping, but I think I've illustrated the basic idea of what I'm seeing here.

Vote: dya

I'll check in around deadline, but this is where I'd like to go toDay. A Dya redflip means we can nearly clear fonti and it really should just be as easy as lynching through Cuth/Shadow after that.

 

Good, vote me. You've been angling for it since d1. Being dead is fine if it gets people to actually look at your play this game.

What does it mean when I flip VT?

 

Oh give me a break, if you'd been reading mine you'd know I've read you; but you just want to be indignant because it's gotten you this far.

And no, you're not going to CFD to me, because I'm town and I will burn you to the ground if you try.

@Fonti: fair enough, I may have gotten a little OMGUS-y in response to your saying you'd CFD onto me, but I'm still leery of it.

 

This is what it feels like you've been doing with me.

I hope they do; I've made myself town in about 15 different ways and I'd love to be clear.

It means that I was wrong, and that fontisian's wolf equity shoots through the roof.

 

There are several issues with your argument.

I can address some or all of them, but you don't actually listen to the things I say.

1) I maintain that Vira was awkward early game. Her impact was also low. I was asked to expand on the awkward when it's a tonal thing for me.

2) Read rigidity is not something that is alignment indicative for me.

3) Negativity is. But it's not something I do as scum.

4) Zack has fun when he's being snarky. I like that about him and think it's part of his town game.

5) My reads didn't change a lot d1. You seriously think that's wolfy?

6) Maybe instead of stating I was opaque, you could have tried actually interacting with me. I can't read your mind.

7) I make tonal reads. this is an issue for you. I'm sorry I don't play the way you do. I doubt I'll return to this community after this game. I've been floored by how many times your community has been closed off to differences.
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I started thinking about you seriously as scum when I read spew, Newcomb. So no, not angling, bu whatever you need to tell yourself to make yourself feel better. I've seen you on MU and you can be extremely good at solving he game and being villagery. I'm not seeing it this game.
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Spicy take: at least 1 mafia member is voting me right now. GLGL town, I think I'm done playing here.

 

That's the one I was referring to, sorry, wasn't clear.

 

I might not be here at EoD. You guys know when the day ends, do not post when it reaches :00.

A little over 2 hours left in the day.

 

And I'm sorry your experience here wasn't what you wanted.

Understand, regardless of your alignment, I bear you no ill will. From what I can tell, you haven't really been in a great place w/r/t having fun this game, which is something I can sympathize pretty heavily with.

I like to think that I'm pretty open to differences in playstyle, but I'm also not willing to give up on my own quirks and foibles. For example, I hate, hate, hate talking to people about their own alignment. I don't really do "realtime interactions." When I make reads, my preference is to talk /about/ people and not /to/ them. I know some people don't like this or don't "get" it, but it's the way I prefer to play. I don't like negativity in games - I want things to feel like a poker game between friends, not like a shouting badfeels match. This isn't a value judgement, it's just who I am as a person and what I value in games.

If that means that we're frequently not going to really click in a game, that's a shame, but it's also.... not something I think I should be required to bend on, in order to enjoy a game of mafia. Maybe that's selfish, idk. I'm experiencing my own low point on the burnout curve, and as it's gone down I've found myself less and less willing to tolerate anything about a game that makes it less fun for me... in like, an effort to scrape any fun out of the bottom of the jar, so to speak.

Eh, think i'm losing the point a little. The point I'm trying to make is, I genuinely don't have any negative personal feelings about you, and the fact that I think you're the most likely person to be a wolf at this point is strictly like... it's just where I landed. It has nothing to do with what I think about you as a player or anything else. All business, no hard feelings.