I think this runs against the general current of how the mafia were treating scott.
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I am 110% sure Fable is going to stab me, but...

Vote: Paratroopa

 

Idk.

Does this look like a partner interaction?

There's a "ships passing in the night" element to it, I suppose. It also kind of feels like Cuth's trying to hand out a lazy townread like he did to Zack - was also a kind of meta/feels thing. The Zack one had a ton more hemming hawing, though.

It's an odd angle for Cuth to take, though. Like, repping the 'reading old games' thing, and then fonti calling him on it, and him being johnny on the spot with actual explanation.

Which like. In retrospect it's a bit odd that fonti didn't take issue with this characterization of her play, since... that doesn't really strike me as a fair meta shake?

Interesting baseline for how Cuth pushed on town.

And a baseline for distancing from a partner.

And more pushing on villagers.

So let's see how Cuth talked about the people in the PoE:

I think what I'm seeing with Cuth here is that when he pushes on a villager, there are these clear step/step/step statements, not a ton of hedging, but not a lot of strong language. More of a "didn't like X, did Y which I thought was bad, and has activity wise done Z, vote: town?" Whereas his interactions with partners look a lot more baffled / waiting to see / just doesn't really know how to handle.

like, let's look at all those reads for a second -

Owner and Miner, noticeably, both get a nearly identical read - "villagery, but X".

Wiling to put at least Vira/Tsaiah in completely ??? territory.

This is.... maybe reading into the nitpicky stuff too much, but look how the Owner/Wei/Miner reads go. They're clumped, and the Owner/Miner thing are so similar, and sandwhiched between them is Wei, who gets a "liked early stuff, liked recent stuff, don't remember."

I... have a pretty hard time seeing that being a thing in wolf!Wei worlds?

I think where I'm landing on this is like.... two main threads of thought.

Thread 1 - the general lines of inquiry I/we've been exploring for a couple RL weeks were right, it was one of Shadow/Cuth (Cuth), and it's one of Dya/fonti and killing both of them just always wins the game. It can't be Shadow/Cuth because like 10-15 weak unalignment things (remind me to quote that MIner post where he pokes me and fonti about a Wei post shading Cuth which is just truly bizarre in a Wei/Cuth world.

Thread 2 - My general instinct for "what wolves would or wouldn't do" has been kind of.... off-kilter this game. I've been basing a lot of my reads on the general idea that wolves were in a very strong position on D3 and had a lot of opportunity for strong plays. I'm still like.... can't wrap my head around the narrative of this game, like what wolves were doing, why they made some of the decisions they made, in a narrative sense. So maybe it is just Shadow and this game is like, Colony Collapse Disorder 2.0, This Time It's Wolves Instead of Bees. That... doesn't feel right at all, but I can't deny that it would kind of fit, like, the emotional tenor of the flipped mafia.

 

(You already did. Lol.)

Click through for context.

 

@Fable

We've got time now, so I'd like to talk about your dya meta case.

Can you explain it to me from the angle of like... how dya approaches mafia, how she thinks about games, her "mafia values"?

Like, slightly more broad spectrum than "pushing on Yeti/SS would be too self aware because she'd think to do it as a villager and would know she would so she woudln't" - I'm kind of butchering what you actually were saying there, which is like... idk if it's a you problem or a me problem but I'm not wrapping my head around the heart of what you're trying to say with that.
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Right, yes, this thing.

It's like.

Okay, put yourself in the head of wolf!Miner here. Cuth is his partner, confirmed. In the world where WeiShadow is with him, fonti and I are town, right?

So this is wolf!Miner... pointing out the way his partner is pushing in a weird way... on another partner.... to two of the people in the game he'd probably think have the most chance to sniff out something like that.

Like, Refuge in Audacity is a thing, sure, but. It just really doesn't feel like a real thing.

It makes a ton more sense to me if he's like... appealing to town (or potentially town and a partner) to point out something he saw that town did that /looked bad/. Like, the Wei thing /looked bad/ in a way that I think scum would pick up on a villager doing that ahhhhh yeah I don't really know anymore.

I was pretty shocked Miner did some of the stuff he did as a wolf so....

Still think this is pretty unaligned, but see my previous Thought 1 Thought 2 post .

 

@Newcomb
Answer 7076 first.
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Also say what you want about my vira read yeah it was wrong but I only ever played one game with her.

I have played literally dozens of games with dya I've been in a hydra with her multiple times so so ZERO people should be comparing my ability dya to my ability to read vira.
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7067 not 7076.

 

Cuth was always in the PoE, he was never not in the PoE.

"Punting" is colloquial for "putting off a pressing problem." Putting off the thread's contrasting views of Dya seemed - and still seems - like the more pressing issue. Whereas Cuth was always going to be lynched, regardless of him being a villager or a wolf.

Put a different way, in terms of how we were solving yesterDay:

Shadow / Cuth - easier tier

Dya / fonti - harder tier

 

But if that's true why wouldn't you want to lynch cuth first and ensure the f3?

Like I don't understand the mentality of "I don't wanna lynch the obv wolf" which you're going to have to understand I'm suspcious of seeing as you magically wanted to lynch 113 over BOTH owner and miner.

 

Thinking that Cuth was always getting lynched eventually and having a perspective based on that isn’t the same thing as thinking he was an obvious wolf.

I thought there were pretty decent odds he was flipping town, tying into my whole “I really don’t get what the plan was” spiel.

 

So shadow/cuth was the "easy tier" but you were actually very uncertain of cuth's alignment.

I mean walk me through this newcomb because I have no idea what you're trying to say.

 

Random ancient history quote of the day.

 

Fable, I'm going to say this in the nicest possible way, but the way you've been approaching this Day so far is like, "I'm cleared and I'm setting the agenda, let's make these players fight over stuff."

Leaving aside any kind of value judgement over that being a good thing to do or not, I think it's kind of like... not really jiving with the thread direction?

From where I'm sitting, Vaimes, Stanari and I are more on the same page than you, Stanari and Vaimes. Don't get me wrong, I think you're town here, and I'm genuinely interested to get into this dya thing with you, because I think your insight into her play is something I'd be a fool to not take into consideration. But I think the conversation is about "what's the correct order to lynch dyaslot/Shadow/fonti," not "is Newcomb a wolf somehow."

I mean, obviously you do you.

Actually, in the interest of... bending playstyles / meeting you halfway, I'm prepared to do something I'm normally not at all interested in and make a post entirely about why I'm town this game. Even though I feel it's a little... beneath me, or something. I think there are a few things that have happened / I've inadvertently done that no one's brought up, that should objectively push me well out of any kind of paranoia.

Is that something you're interested in?

Because I think if you can clear me, this just becomes an exercise in efficiency.

 

I mean in terms of difficulty it seems like you were far more sure on dya than cuth so shouldn't dya/fonti be the easy tier from your PoV?

 

Easy to resolve, not easy to read.

Cuth/Shadow were/are easy to resolve. Cuth was always getting lynched this game regardless of his alignment, right? In that sense, he's easily resolved.

I'm trying to say that I was pushing on Dya, and you were defending her, and there wasn't enough time to fully explore the nuance of that exchange, so we punted and lynched Cuth without doing that, and now here we are.

 

I kind of want to clear Shadow on this.

 

You put more weight into the post itself than what Miner did with it?

What do your elf eyes see, Stanari?

 

Votearatroopa

Fuck it.

I can't stop this, would rather just let you all be wrong.

Fucking pissed at dya for leaving me all alone.
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Vote: Paratroopa
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Let's not take 72 hours to just do what you guys were always going to do today.

 

"I'm conflicted on this pair of people of which one is my buddy and one is a townie so I'm going to vote my buddy because he's done more stuff."

I'm so unleveled I live at the bottom of the sea.

Also it doesn't match with the movement of the rest of the flipped mafia.

Sleep deprivation reads FTW.

 

I'm a little perplexed by this, it doesn't really seem like there's all that much pressure on dya/me? I'm not taking this the wrong way or anything mind you, this just doesn't seem like it was ever this day's inevitable conclusion.

Or maybe I'm wrong and about to be lynched but hey.

 

Let's not take 72 hours do just do what you guys were always going to do today.

Seriously?

In that case I'm very sorry I have to break it to you that I am currently the only person who thinks your slot is a villager.
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Up to you to defend yourself though because I'm done with either being ignored or talked down to.

Most miserable game I've ever been in.

glgl

 

You can. I'm open, I'm listening, I'm here, I want to engage with you on this. Is this not what you've been wanting all game? Direct, one-on-one engagement, versus ivory tower analysis?

If my post came off as talking down to you, I apologize, and it certainly wasn't meant in that manner. It wasn't meant to be like, exclusionary - "oh Fable's off in his own little world, he has to come join the cool kids table" or something.

It's just like.... pure pragmatism. Pure knuts and bolts. I want to reduce the game to fonti, Shadow, and dyaslot. You want to reduce the game to fonti, Shadow, and me. We disagree on Dya, and me. Stanari and Vaimes, from where I'm sitting, see it more my way than yours, though I'll let them speak for themselves.

I'm trying to say like... I'll do something I'm not super good at / comfortable with to help you get there on me, can you help me get there on dya?

That's all, that's the show. No posturing, no value judgements, no dick measuring.

If you're not having a good time, sorry, but like. This is the hand we seem to have been dealt.