To be honest, my prevalent opinion is that they will find a way to undo a good number of those deaths. I fully expect Dr. Strange to come back, for example.

 

I just want Gamora alive again, damn. I surprised myself with how much I cared about her death. Probably not happening though. Goddamnit.

As for the movie, 9/10. Probably my favorite Marvel movie.
I don't understand people both here and elsewhere online who look at this as just an entertaining blockbuster type.
The action is cool and all, but the characters are what I care about. I would love this film if it was just 3 hours of characters interacting in a room with nothing else happening. Plot is secondary (to me).
Maybe I get too lost in the stories I like to notice their faults, I don't know.

I loved the final scenes of the movie. Even though I think most of them will be alive again somehow, the visuals and the atmosphere felt kind of horrifyingly beautiful.

 

I think that's why some people view it more as epic in the moment entertainment.

We know those deaths aren't permanent...so its difficult to care afterwards. Its less real grief....and more waiting for them to come back.

I'd personally say it would have more impact if, starting shortly after Age of Ultron...we'd have had Thanos showing up to gain the soul stone. Guardians of Galaxy 2 should have been them against Thanos and ends with Gamora's death. Peppering deaths over the next few movies as opposed toall at once.

 

Couldn't agree more. I was reading a review on another site that was pointing out, as others have, that Marvel never really raised the stakes on the heroes until Infinity War. There was never an imminent threat of death for anyone the audience was really invested in.

The result is that everyone dying at once loses the impact that one or two deaths of major characters would have had. I was most affected by Gamora and Spidey going out, and that's because their deaths were far more drawn out and individualized than everyone else's other than maybe Vision. The most irritating for me was T'Challa, who I love. Dude just disappeared with minimal fanfare. All I felt was anger.

That said, these are nitpicks. Greatly enjoyed the ride.

 

I mean, does anyone seriously doubt that Avengers 4 will be a "retirement" for all/some of the old guard, the original 6 we got in 2012 Avengers, and most of the Infinity War deaths will be reversed with the Time Stone? They killed Strange and Spiderman. Strange is basically magic Tony Stark and Spiderman is young, with a single solo movie. Phase 4 is where Marvel launches the next 20 movies after RDJ, Evans, Renner etc leave the MCU.

This meta context is sort of impossible to ignore, which is why the deaths have diminished impact.

 

I’d be truly shocked if Gamora’s death stuck. Actually, I’m taking pretty much every death with a grain of salt until Avengers 4, with it clearly being based around a time travel plot.

Also, does anyone mind sharing what’s the big fuss about Shuri? As in, where is this anger coming from? I thought she was funny and used sparingly enough in both BP and IW that her brand of humor wasn’t grating.

 

I think it was mostly how two general AI's, Bruce Banner, and Tony Stark working together with the Mind Stone were inferior to her blindingly obvious two second deduction to show off how superior she is intellectually. Bruce was a character study in ineffectual emasculation the entire movie, serving as comic relief rather than as an agent of any real importance. Even his reunion with Natasha was a three second punchline rather than anything of significance. What is it, 10% of his dialogue was showcasing his sheepish inferiority in the face of her intellect? Nobody likes it when a character they enjoy is torn down to raise another up. Then there's the whole black woman doing it to a white man thing which is always certain to rile up certain groups.

 

Feige and Ruffalo have both stated that Banner has a great character arc being told across Ragnorak, Infinity War, and A4. IW was definitely humbling for him, but I believe he will come back better than ever next year. Or his arc for this film and Thor 3 won’t make any narrative sense.

From what I understand, Shuri is the heir to generations of study of the most potent element on the planet. Vibranium apparently generates wealth without trade and spurs innovation from just existing. And it has been there since basically the dawn of time. Wakanda is supposedly far more advanced than the rest of the world in science, engineering, and health care; why wouldn’t the country’s foremost genius outstrip everyone else?

Yeah, I was kind of getting the vibe that the annoyance was extra vigorous because she is a black woman. I sincerely hope we both are wrong on that account.

 

As was said before, it's not that there aren't in-universe reasons for her to be better than the rest. It's that she an example of a brand new character being build up by presenting just how much better she's than older ones. That never works well with fans and is very close to all these Mary Sue tropes that everyone likes to complain about. If I were to write this scene, I would have her and Bruce work as equals to find a solution that would save Vision.

 

I’m still mostly upset about Maria Hill, whatever did she ever do to deserve that! She was my favorite background character.

 

We have a term in fanfiction for when one established character is torn down to make another character seem superior. We call it bashing. It's what happens when Harry out-argues Dumbledore during their first meeting.

Granted, it's not as egregious in IW because Marvel's writers are better than FFN indy!Harry authors, but I thought it was fairly obvious. Banner--established in the MCU as someone Tony Stark looks up to--serves as a platform for Shuri to go "well duh mate".

 

Nonononono! It's totally because she's black. That's the only reason.

 

Worst part is that there were multiple explanations for why Bruce and Tony didn't originally do whatever Shuri did.

First of all, the physical body wasn't even made by Stark and Banner. That was all Ultron and Helen Cho. Second, they were pressed for time and judging by how long it took Shuri to do whatever (It's ambiguous if she even finished her task), the process takes a while.

Simply saying "Hey, we were pressed for time" or "We weren't the ones that built him, you can blame that on his evil older brother". would have sufficed.

 

I'll be honest, what did Banner being in the hulk suit actually bring to the fight? Banner has been shown to not remember his time as Hulk (e.g. Thor Ragnarok, can't remember what it was like Avengers 1+2), so he won't have any particular experience for being that size, and he hasn't shown a particular aptitude for using iron man suits.

They could have stuck a random Wakandan in there and have Shuri and Banner working together to show them as both incredibly intelligent and improving each other's work. Then, you could still have had Hulk refusing to come out when Thanos' guy came along to get the stone to keep that plot line going, and show that Banner is on a similar mental level to Shuri.

 

I think it's for contrast purposes imo. They've made Hulk/Banner look inept/cowardly in part one to make his moment of triumph in part two all the sweeter.

Or it's bashing. Idfk.

 

He was but he could have teleported him away before the fight started if he felt that Starlords actions would cost them the fight.

 

Or ultimately lead to their victory.

 

Not the only reason. There's also the fact that she's a woman.

(Though seriously, the fact that even in this thread we've had folks say she should be eating dicks rather than daring to speak up to the men says that kinda is an issue.)