I’m still working so I’ll answer fully later but Zenzao - I RVS voted because I hadn’t yet read the thread to see that RVS ended so early.

 

fluff feels empty.

 

You should link her Movie Villains from GTF. That was a pretty prolific scum game although I was boosted by a godfather green check.

 

...doesn't he always?

 

@Gemma - missing posts is not alignment indicative. QUOTING a post that CONTAINS the things you are saying do not exist and conveniently overlooking them is scummy. I'll get to the rest of your post in a bit.
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@Zenzao here you go.

Also shoutout to @Vaimes for saying something about highlighting a portion of text to quote it because that was REALLY fucking handy and I didn't know about it.

I'm gonna stop you about the whole my opening post thing because I almost always RVS Vaimes when I'm playing with him so it's completely NAI for me.

Vaimes swapped his vote to Tammy in the middle of an automerged post. All the other posts surrounding the vote were not about Tammy, so I commented on how I found it quite odd that he voted Tammy in the middle of talking all about someone else. I can't remember exactly what I'd have to go back and look, but that was what I was pointing out.

Garcia'ing this because like I said, I almost always vote Vaimes.

I wasn't echoing Gemma. I was saying Gemma echoed my particular thoughts on that specific point.

Let me clarify. I'm not justifying a townread on a player I know is town. Your opening post, taken by itself, I found inherently scummy. However, the way you stuck to it afterwards was pretty towny behavior, but coupled with how much I didn't like the initial post puts you somewhere around a dead null with maaaybe a SLIGHT lean town. I wasn't waffling on that read.

Like I said, I wasn't saying you in particular were towny I was saying that the particular action OF sticking to what you were going with was towny. The only thing I was really scumreading is the actual initial post and the vibe it gave me.

Scum have this thing that they do where if a tactic isn't working, they switch tactics. I think that in your situation, a scum player would probably not like all the attention you were drawing to yourself and would change things up or soften the edges. You didn't. Therefore, I think that attitude is less scummy of you.

I'm gonna chalk this up to it being like after midnight in the middle of an absolutely insane work week that I just finished and how absolutely fucking tired I am. There's really no other explanation, but I can assure you that as scum I have never faked a derp clear in my entire mafia career. It's not a thing that I do because it's a copout and I don't need to rely on cheap tricks like that to win over a towncircle.

This was more of a case of me thinking out loud. I made that post about the three-scum team while I was in the middle of my catchup post, and I hadn't yet finished it or fleshed out my thoughts on Fluff yet. Mainly my problem with Fluff is that he feels empty and shallow, and I'm not sure if he's just fucking around as a towny or if he's deflecting and just posting low content to coast. It makes me feel icky.

Okay I'm gonna talk about how you're misconstruing the way in which I use the term "echoing".

I will visibly state, when catching up, if another player posts something that is exactly in line with what I was ALREADY THINKING while reading. As in, it was a thought that I had, and I saw it in text from another person's post. I find these things towny if people are echoing my thoughts because I am town, and thus have a town thought process, and so people who are saying the exact things I was already thinking likely also have a town thought process because they may also be town.

I'm not quoting a read that I like and saying "I echo this" to take credit for it. I'm pointing out an instance of someone saying something I was already thinking. That is all.

That, and given how Shadow completely steamrolled me via my echoing reads in tinyhunt will actually make echoes less likely to influence my reads completely nowadays. I won't be so willing to completely write off somebody as town just because they have a lot of the same thoughts I do.

Like I said, I threw out that three-scum team based on what I was thinking at the time regarding Gemma and Lulz and also my thoughts on Fluff that I never really elaborated on. Just because the team is only two scums doesn't mean that Fluff is now not a possible scum or a scum read on my end, it just means that I had to pick two out of the three that I felt most strongly on and evaluate which team of two was most likely within my three scum reads. Fluff isn't so much a read as he is a lean in my book but he's still less towny than all the other people on my list, including you.

That said, I find your line of questioning here to be incredibly productive, as it forced me to clarify things that looking back I wish I would have clarified originally in my posts. So thanks.
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@Vaimes

Stop scumreading me. You're wrong. Help me out here. >:/
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I'm addressing Gemma's post for the benefit of others but I still think she's scum so I'm not actually justifying myself to her.

Your OMGUS thing with YOU was scummy because it was PURE omgus - you literally snap voted him for voting you without even considering he could have genuine suspicion, or waiting to see the read fully fleshed out. It pretty much gave me whiplash and I think town Gemma would be more patient than that? But I don't really know you that well, so I could be wrong.

I didn't "force a w/w read". I saw a situation as w/w because I didn't like the way you REPEATEDLY asked him to elaborate on his read. You made him reiterate himself so many times that I'm pretty sure someone who has never played mafia would think "oh ok, we get it Vaimes" by the end of it. It was just so fucking strange to me and I didn't see a valid reason for it because I felt EACH of his explanations were sufficient enough not to warrant further questioning.

I know you didn't SAY Vaimes was lock town, but "ok thanks you're town now <3 " also looked fucking weird.

Er, what else have you done, exactly? I didn't ignore anything, I just didn't find anything else noteworthy. Reading flat isn't a good look either, so basically your other posts gave me no reason to consider you any townier than "probably scum".

This is about my Lulz read, so:

Maybe it's just a thing I have against forced reactions, I don't think it's a towny thing to do (post something to wait for people to respond to it to get a read off of that) and I have never really used tactics like that myself, but in particular the way lulz SAID "it's either RVS or it's not, guess which" was really off.

Like I said earlier, MISSING posts is not alignment indicative. It was the fact that lulz quoted a post that contained the exact information he voted dC for, saying that information didn't exist. It was the most willing blindness I have ever seen and it struck me as scum. I've never seen town do something like that, ever.

Describing things he's done and making them... seem bad...?

You mean, I have an opinion?

Great, thanks, so do you.

That'll be all for now.

 

Heh, I voted "you" because I thought they were abusing meta to scumread me. It wasn't omgus. I've already said this, you should read my posts.

Regardless of your alignment, you forced a w/w read. I don't think I read flat, I don't believe you really think I read flat.

If there's anything else feel free to talk about it. I think you're mafia so if you're town then we're in a bad spot with each other at the moment.

 

vote Tammy

Please don't ask me to explain it right now; i need to take a break from this read for the sake fo the game, but i'm quite sure. I'm going to focus on other reads for a bit now.

 

Tenfootpole.gif

 

It's day one and I feel more strongly about my Lulz read than my read on you. I said earlier that it's possible my read on you will change, it's possible it won't. Either way, I'm town and have the ability to prove it down the line so I think it's best for you to back off me for now if you're town.

 

that's for the best. thank you.

ISOed dichotomous and lulz. mild townlean on lulz but nothing to write home about. i can point to bits and pieces that i particularly liked if you want but it's mostly subejctive "i liked their tone here" or "this seems like a townie frame of mind" I think lulz vs Zenzao is TvT.

dicohotmous is pretty null for me. i dont see anything i actively dislike. probably not scum with tammy.

i'm reading cobalt next. i remember thinking the townslip was fake and i remember feeling buddied by someone and it mightve been him.

i'm feeling better about Gemma. wary still but i think it's just paranoia. zaozao's still my strongest townread.

i felt good about vimes when i isoed him yesterday. same about fluffiness although less so and that was before i realised tammy was scum so i want to rereadthere.
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actually i really like the vehemence with which cobalt defends their scumgame and how they would never resort to such cheap tactics etc.

 

He didn't in Princess. Is the only game I have played with him. It was different circumstances though since he replaced in and was under pressure.

 

fluff could be scum with tammy but i dont feel very strongly about this. their ISO is underwhelming but i gather from everybody else's comments that this is par for the course so idk. we shouldlynch them before lylo i guess but not today.

 

He was actually clarifying that it wasn't a slip. He said that he meant that the team was in those 3 slots. In other words he was aware there were only 2 scum when he made that post, he wasn't suggesting a 3-person team. So it should be null.

 

No, it was a slip.

I did think it was a team of three. I was tired and not thinking straight, as I said.

I clarified later about what Zenzao picked apart about my list, where Fluff was still second lowest apart from you and Lulz. I said he was still scummy, but independently of the two of you as a team.
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YOU is on the right track w/r/t that incident, I did slip and I did defend my scumgame because there's no way I'd do that on purpose.

 

reread vimes. still feel okay about them. mild twinge that they voted tammy in rvs but i can tell when i'm being ridiculous.

i think my readlist is done playing musical chairs for now

ZenZao
Vimes
Gemma
Cobalt
lulz - mild town
DichotmousCreator -null. probably not scum with tammy
his fluffiness - null. possibly scum with Tammy
Tammy

 

Ah, ok.

(On purpose in italics.)

 

YOU, talk to me about Tammy.

Tammy is one of my strongest townreads and I see a lot of personal stuff milling about between the two of you. What's going on, and can you fully describe that read independently of whatever arguments the two of you have had?
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Oops, never mind. Answer me later.

 

Gemma
Tammy

Zenzao

dC

Vaimes
lulz

fluff

you

Cobalt

Goodnight!
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Oh I read your thing dC but I don't really have anything to say.
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(Vaimes is still null.)
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(Other people should post a readlist too.)
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(Except Tammy.)

 

My read of the thread is I'm not.

(I will attempt to sort out a readlist when I feel less cantankerous. I'm hoping this will be in a few hours)