@Fluff - Can you talk to me about your Vaimes vote, like what led you to voting there over Cobalt?

The more you can tell me about what was going through your head around that time/vote the better.
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Yeah I have to head out now. I'll be back in about 30 hours.

Newcomb, Tom and Fontisian are always town here, can take those reads to the bank.

I'm not as solid on Fluff town as others are, I get the reasoning behind it (re; meta differences) and think that the vote on Vaimes looks good in a sense of a "I think it was probably one of the more pivotal ones that led the lynch there" but the fact there's no read/anything from him on Vaimes before that vote isn't...great. So yeah, he's probably town and sadly probably also going to be someone I'm never really going to get There or comfortable enough to lock him in as town.

Not as sure on my Lyric town read anymore, think the Vaimes read/thoughts etc makes plenty of sense about a partner and think there's sort of a different approach/tonal area when it comes to her read on him vs her read on other people which is problematic. I still really like a lot of the other thoughts and particularly find the interaction with Tom yesterday to be...pretty hard for scum to fake, especially if it's their first scum game. I dunno, I'd like to read through her other game that she replaced out of. And I'd like to see her actually start posting some reads/thoughts and actively solving today rather than just broad "Why would scum buss!?" type of statements which aren't hugely helpful. So I guess long way of saying that I'll probably read her when I get back.

I've got a weak town read on Eido, mostly a case of finding some of his reads/progressions fairly natural and I don't ever think he makes that kill so if that's actually scums kill he's just town. Get what Fonti's saying about Eidos EOD, think the argument that he was trying to sort of save Vaimes without trying to look bad post-flip makes sense, I'm just not, hugely swayed by it because I think he could have just been in the same spot as me where it's a "I don't have a real opinion on the two and Vaimes can self-clear as town whereas I can't really get there on Cobalt to the same level".

And yeah, I still think Citrus is scum.

 

I do have my own thoughts on how the wagon went down yesterday, and I'll elaborate in a later post probs but day ended with basically my being suspicious of the people who joined wagon late/didn't join at all (Eido, Newcomb, you, Cobalt, but like more Eido/Newcomb than you) and thinking fonti/tom/citrus/and fluff were clear until something significant happened otherwise/we had a few mislynches. I thought Eido's reads were surprisingly poor (I'm sorry, not trying to be insulting, will get into that in future post) and Newcomb's thought about me/fluff being w/w ringing like, unlikely and therefore suspicious.

I'll try to explain my own frustration for transparency:

So I vote Vaimes, Vaimes flips mafia, I'm reallyyy happy and basically my mood is super light/I think I have my lockclears (which I think could change as game goes on, but as I said, I found it too much of a negative play, and bussing too WIFOMy for my initial considerations). Vaimes has been mafia all three of my games, and his lynch went down nearly identically to my second game (fonti leads wagon, convinces me to vote Vaimes), find all that pretty funny, excited to come back to thread and discuss, yada yada.

Then apparently I come to thread and I'm like top 3 likeliest to be scum from that wagon, including two of my other (considered) lockclears from that night, the people who have considered me towny no longer do and that's where a lot of my fun/scumhunting and readsadjusting has been resting on and people actually think I'm bad enough a player in thread that as a wolf I would somehow not understand what a nightkill is and kill COBALT?

I've been spending an unholy amount of time this game, enough that it's seriously messed up my sleep and my IRL schedule, which is my business, but like each longer post takes me a couple hours at least even though I'm sure it doesn't look like it, and everyone's response is basically "dig deeper" x repeat, and I keep trying and getting more bewildered and one of my main strengths in former games so far/something I do need to start focusing on getting better reads and accurate lynches has been by finding "town friends" versus focusing on answering pushes in an attempt to be townread, because I don't trust my reads at all and for some reason it's not "just happening" in this game like the past and nothing I post, including when I actively try to show what goes on in my mind when voting/trying to scumhunt beause that was what people wanted, doesn't help and somehow makes my old top townread turn against me, as does my current top townread after she convinces me to vote scum Day 1.

I guess with your q, Reg, I still find bussing a questionable move for scum here, and I know DLP meta has some really crazy/complex scumplays and bussing, but it's not something I'd do and not something I particularly understand or know about as a result I guess. The Von specifically asking partner to bus...would make more sense, but I honestly hadn't even considered it. And probably wouldn't comply as scum if it had been me unless it was clear he was going down (which it hadn't been yesterday imo). And if bussing is such obvious play (it was day 1! in a likely two scum game!), that makes it more negative not less imo.

So yeah, I'll still keep giving reads/making pushes/answering pushes but I feel like I'm getting nowhere and basically doomed to not getting anywhere/being pushed on instead of collaborating with town circle and ultimately thinking shit, if this is so confusing for thread, my gamesolving isn't helping, my efforts aren't paying off or contributing, and I'm just distracting by being suspicious (by apparently lynching scum and finding the thread genuinely towny Day 1 despite having an apparently good explanation for my play), then well shit, might as well do something positive and get lynched and flipped and giving town info that way.

But yeah, sorry, I'm not threatening to quit/not contribute, but those were my thoughts.
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I will start solving, I'm not currently playing and I'm legit in the middle of sleeping and posted "why would scum bus" because I was so shocked/confused by thread.

 

Yeah okay Lyrics town. I'll respond to some of that stuff when I get back.

Think this ends in a Citrus scum lynch like ~90% of the time. If it doesn't probably Eido->Fluff.

 

Sure. I voted Vaimes over Cobalt for a few reasons.

Looking over the thread, I thought reasons to vote Cobalt were pretty flimsy, with everyone basically saying "we're just lynching him cause he might be harder to read than Vaimes". Which is the type of reasoning I rally hate.

Vaimes's vt claim was atrocious, and Eido's defence of that did not convince me otherwise.

Also, I had fonti as my top town read, and as such was naturally inclined to follow her lead in that situation.

 

Lyric when we say go deeper, you should know you're already going deeper than plenty of players on other sites.
I'd take you right now over 90% of MAL, regardless of your alignment here.

But this group on average does a lot more.

Also you're still pretty null for me. I think we're getting a lot more of [your personality] and [how you think mafia should be played] than [things that are alignment indicative].
And honestly I think I could say the same of your reads which is not super helping me to sort you.
So, like, maybe you're just town here and have yet to explore "how to scum" and are thus lacking that perspective. And as I'm typing that actually makes more and more sense as a narrative so that's cool

 

Why was I your top town read at the time?

 

Cite please.

This feels like made up bullshit.

 

@tom read up on so much stuff/read both Eido and Newcomb's mentor QTs on scumhunting, thought I would be more prepared this time round, sad!

fonti, you weren't my top townread at that time, you are my current top townread because of the Von lynch
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Okay going back to sleep now (hopefully)

 

I was asking fluff, Lyric.

 

When I was shocked Vaimes claimed VT, you immediately leapt to attack me for wondering why he would do that.

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I find that I can usually read you really well, and you seemed much less needlessly aggressive than when you're scum.

 

Why were you shocked when Von claimed?

 

I was out of thread for a while, and then I come back and learn that not only did someone claim, they claimed VT, which helps their case in like 0% of games. So it was like "why would anyone ever do this?"

 

Why did you think it was more of a weird scum thing than a weird town thing?
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Anyone: Thoughts on this?

 

General mafia philosophy. If you're really VT, you see no reason to claim it because it doesn't help clear you, while if you're scum, VT is the only non ccable claim you can make.

 

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Makes me weakly think it's not Citrus but not enough to really move the needle.

 

???

OK so in the event this was an 8-2 setup were basically in ez coast mode at this point, but Idk things add up in a way that makes sense.

There must be some balance of roles that makes 7-3 fair and that is probably a world with a town killing role of some sort? If that's why cobalt died then there must be killing AND protective floating around?

In any case, lyric is bleeding from the heavens new & by deduction town, other than that I'm going to have to do a reread at this point because I feel like I've moved backwards from things clicking.

I think this is as far as I'm willing to let Regfan take his mischaracterization of me though, even if it takes til the end of D3 to sort it out

Vote: regfan

 

sar·casm
/ˈsärˌkazəm/
noun

1. the use of irony to mock or convey contempt.

Like. Mocking you for wondering why someone would claim =/= defending the person that claimed.

Very much owltiltingheadgif at

though. I guess he believes it regardless of alignment. I'd say VT claims come from town significantly more than scum, even considering the majority vs. minority numbers imbalance, precisely /because/ claiming VT usually doesn't save you.

Hum hum hum.

Yeah I dunno. I thought he was pulling something out of his ass completely because I didn't remotely defend Von, but I can at least understand how he'd view this as that if I tilt my head far enough. (Especially given I sort of doubt he's even read a good chunk of the day phase, so it's something that'd stick with him a bit.)
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Hm.
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I would be very interested in a re-read from you and thoughts.

As well as having you dance with Reg over what you perceive as mischaracterizations.

 

See: mischaracterizations

Just no. Beyond all the hand-waving, this is just going to devolve into a he said she said beyond addressing the other parts of this post as below

I voted Lyric because I didn't think anything they had done was scummy and thus I thought it would be interesting to see if anyone reacted to me doing so (as that was forcing the wagon to suddenly be 2-people strong super early). I was expecting that it would just end up being WIFOM for a stronger player to react, but I was expecting someone that wasn't at like Eidolonic-tier and scum to probably jump in to defend Lyric because it'd be a super easy thing to attack me for.

On a spectrum of 1 scum to 100 town she was a 51-52ish, as I mentioned a slightly more on the town side than scum side but pretty null, based off the little engagement I had with them. Didn't realize that the ribbing was only Fontisian and Newcomb as Font later mentioned but those two things were where that came from.

Cool k enjoy.

Because I didn't? I don't get the point of this. I don't remember the exact point this was at but Cobalt was not present, I think at that point I gut-townread Fluffiness, and there's no point placing a vote on any of Newcomb/you/Eido.

That's kinda what happens when someone doesn't make shit up actually, because they are spending the amount of time they have on the game as a whole as opposed to 99% of their time on a random specific player that someone else decided they had to spend that time on? I don't even remember what made my stance on Tom be that early D1 because the last few days have been a blur, I just have in my notes that there was something that pinged good about his response to Fontisian which now I'm remembering is that 1v1 tit-tat they had I'm pretty sure now.

Like just no. I remember thinking wow that was a lot of mischaracterizations of me but on a deep dive through it's even worse than I remembered.

Like I definitely didn't think Regfan would be someone that would fall for a honey-trap type scenario with regards to my early Lyric vote, but a lot of the above is super confirmation biasing off that initial premise to justify me as scum and I'm 100% fine with all the credit for catching him that early, even if I'm drowned out until I gain my ethos back after flipping
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I already got the vibe Regfan is not going to respond or engage with me at all yesterDay when he proceeded to 100% ignore me when I pinged him multiple times, so if anyone else would like me to address specific aspects hit me up and I'm 100% happy to
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I already got the vibe Regfan is not going to respond or engage with me at all yesterDay when he proceeded to 100% ignore me when I pinged him multiple times, so if anyone else

Looking through the vote progression yesterDay with scum!Vaimes, Regfan >>> Eidolonic were very bad pretty bad for momentum purposes and Fluffiness's basically sealed it as a Vaimes lynch, 5 votes on Vaimes without Cobalt's which was a forced ?quorum?.

In a 8-2 world I think that basically clears Fluffiness? Like there's no road to victory for him setting himself up to gauntlet especially with the players in this game. In a 7-3 world it's a sacrifice Vaimes now so we don't get run as back-to-back lynches soon after?
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I'm looking forward to when I'll actually get to be around when other people are here, going to just pay off some sleep debt and try to figure things out tomorrow~

 

So here's a quick summary of my thoughts:
Thought fonti/tom/citrus/fluff were near completely clear from yesterday, am willing to let go on my citrus/fluff reads but almost mainly on rest of threads' opinions.

I think the bussing move makes much more sense to me if it's 7-3, roleheavy, and yesterday was a vig kill, but just basically, I don't really buy that. The chances of a successful save and everything working out exactly that way has me a touch skeptical. I guess also with the vig argument, why would anyone town want Cobalt dead anyways? He was gonna be killed at some point regardless.

With Citrus/fluff, I have this issue where I...buy both their defenses and still lowkey think the wagon makes them clear, with fluff the likelier busser between the two bc Citrus' EoD looked more genuine to me and just less to gain if that's going to be the point of analysis. Like he was speedreading, not sure where wagons were, actively switched over to Von from Cobalt and then dipped, not much credit taking or anything there, while fluff has more of a process. (fluff asked qs, etc)

I still think fluff's post from yesterday was still p crazy (still don't believe he thought a wolf!newcomb was sheeping me or that he didn't ask me any qs before declaring my readlist inconsistent and going MIA), and that Citrus' ISO is nothing too interesting (my notes said basically that I liked tone, " a whole lot of nothing in respond to Eido's qs", and that he might have been a touch overfocusing on the Lyric vote thing and read but still believable (ehh possible TMI? that is what Loch did to me first game), but I had him null-> light town for Day 1 thoughts) but I'll probs go on a separate ISO later. But I feel like this is me...retroactively looking for reasons to read him scummy, almost, bc I've been so swayed by thread. The fluff thing I'm inclined to sheep fonti, but she misread him our last game so....

I do a little bit actively lean Citrus scum more than fluff purely on the fact that some people seem to think that the NK is likeliest to have come from him, which I'm just stealing even though that's not my meta,
so basically not great particular reasons or firm place on either of them.

I am willing to vote Citrus though, because I am suspicious of Newcomb and Eido but the NK thing messes with that heavily (like why would good scum players -not that Citrus isn't I have no idea- in good/townread places ever do that).

My thoughts on Eido also aren't great, but I am actually pretty suspicious, like my gut screams at me but my reason basically boils down to...I had this expectation of him as this god-tier reader and his reads have been ...not that (no offense, I'm sure his reads are amazing in other games and it's only Day 1 and I'm new/apparently hard to place blah blah). But like he was wrong on fonti (and claims she hasn't done much, etc) and I'm in heavy agreement with her thoughts on that being strange/sus and that Regfan has been lackluster or whatever which he disagrees with and so do I seeing as he was my toptown Day 1. Now that's not so much the case, but I feel like he was forced to concede (with fonti basically being cleared). But probably my main honest reason is that I find it really strange that he can't read me (which is probably unfair), but like I know I'm town and I thought I was being town and apparently fonti/reg agreed and so did Newcomb (speaking Day 1) so the fact that Eido was fighting against that just sat wrong with me and his posts read like a mixture of discrediting/pockety to me, which has been an active strategy scum has used against me before. Such as Eido suggesting in all his posts he was nullish on me (but seeming pretty suspicious in reality), but continually saying things like "I want to townread her" and just a bunch of things to me (and fonti and I think to others) that sounded really conciliatory but I didn't know if he's just usually super nice like that and was a question I had down on my yesterday's catch up that I never made.

I did, however, agree with his fluff reads (like tom mentioned somewhere about Eido doing that to his own posts, it was basically my case in better words) and his tom reads and why they felt off (I also felt similarly about tom's interactions going on too long/being hard to place/feeling off about them for similarish reasons to how I feel about Eido but tom's been cleared for me after yesterday) and was wondering why he had nothing to say about me saying the same things (and I think I felt weird about why nobody else commented/seemed to feel similarly).

and I quoted some posts I found "off"

Like all I remember thinking yesterday was that this seemed performative and I reallly didn't see Eido being the NK and I know that's not helpful but it's one of those things that (continue) making my gut scream.

Never mind, quotes super out of order, but I guess...thoughts?

@Eidolonic Woudn't lynching Vaimes when he has more content be more informative than lynching Cobalt, then?

I also guess for transparency, yeah, that wasn't actually my main mode of play, no. As in, of course I was considering alignments, but I already have quite a few explanations about how I was approaching Day 1.

Really don't know if I buy this as a real thought

Honestly basically this.

Another quote I had lined up as "this can't be real thought" but more people seem to believe this than I thought so nvm.

Okay, to be fair, it's not a crazy thought.

Now this can't be a real thought. Are you just trying to shade me?

Jesus thank you.

Voxx oh my god pls

Also, thank you.

Can you explain all this major leap in progression? Lyric def town -> pointed to out to a post you've probs already seen -> it's def Lyric or Citrus!

Granted, don't find this too suspicious, because clearly you are reallyyyy thinking about this game and I'm p surprised. (You read that particular post diff from me because it was diff from me)

Ahhhh Eido please.

And it wasn't a strong scum read. He was my bottom three null, with fluff being my "strong scum read". I saw vaimes on my own as a dead null, was basically convinced by fonti/tom to look into him deeper and knew I needed to consolidate my thoughts/pick a lynch and was just honestly tempted to sheep at that point anyways because I was lost, didn't think fluff wagon would happen, and I knew that a chunk of my fluff push (despite the fact that my thoughts about them were true, like the newcomb/me thing was soo Not Seeming Real) was me just wanting him dead because I was frustrated by that nonpost of a post response when I've been working my ass off on my reading the thread and making posts.
Kept reading Vaimes ISO, tried a roleplaying thing, thought about it over and over, and basically convinced myself "yeah vaimes is acting weird enough , tom vs fonti is off and so is his cobalt thing, sure why not", Day 1.

is honestly what happened there.
@reg with a side of dramatization of my thoughts and actively trying to roleplay as trying to "reach deeper" and trying to get thread to read me

?

What makes you think I'm likelier to make that NK?

What changed between your posts? Can you walk me through this progression of "don't think this is Lyric, but also it's probs just Citrus or Lyric"

No, Cobalt wagon was looking popular and I probs could have pushed harder for either Cobalt or fluff, and I honestly felt like I put the momentum on Vaimes, kept on it, then it began looking like the Likeliest lynch after Citrus (I gave him vote count hoping he would move, instead of moving myself) jumped on it, (I was here an hour before eod) I was like okay bye and went to bed. Like not RL commitments, I went to sleep. This is baffling to me.

But how I think mafia is likeliest to be played is like, part of my analysis.
Also, my personality? In what way?
Basically I find both alignment indicative and not sure what more I need to be doing, because I'm really trying.

I'm in this bad place where people townreading me just makes me automatically not want to push them at this point haha

But yeah, I do find it weird how nobody is considering that mafia just went the simpler route and defended Von and wante a Cobalt wagon instead.

I think tom, fonti, Reg are town. tom and fonti completely cleared and Reg...I can't handle dying at this point anyways.

Citrus, Eido, Fluff, Newcomb in my POE, probably in that exact order.
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Citrus mainly for game progression and the NK, which despite all my suspicions, I can't imagine one of eido/newcomb/fonti making. But someone made it and it made no sense for everyone kinda thing.
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Ugh, I'll come back to rethink and vote in a few hours.
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Oh my god I don't know, if someone gave me a gun and said "go with your gut right now " I think I'd fire on Eido if I didn't drive myself in circles about it.
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To clarify, Eido was saying he was gonna die over and over, not just in that post.
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Yeah, I just think game likely ends with Citrus/Eido/fluff, but would be happy to discuss Newcomb with someone.
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by Citrus for game progression, I meant that everyone seems to be suspecting him/has him as like their top lynch
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lol if it's Reg I'll tear my hair out
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*With Newcomb, it's a mixture of: process of elimination (after citrus eido fluff, there's nobody else) and a "these specific posts really ping me as not real/not pure motivation" and his progression/stance confuses me.
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Now I'm going in circles about fluff.

ahhhhhh
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Oh a quote I don't think that made it was Eidolonic picking on Cobalt for his "anyone town" thing, which I found superr NIA and also a perfectly good sentence on its own (like it would be the way I would phrase it) and it grossed me out in the same way he tried to make my 8-2 assumption thing a possible alignment indication.
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"Just kind of busy, and D1 apathy when half the game isn't able to play, and I feel like there's probably two wolves in that half that isn't able to play."

@Eidolonic

Also meant to ask, which half did you consider as not being able to play? And did you think this was a particularly inactive D1?
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I guess what I felt end of day 1 was that "Eido doesn't really believe some of the things he's saying"
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But seriously, how stupid do I come off? :OOO
Those NK speculations surrounding me are insane.
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You guys can't ALL be wolves.
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Also I think my AtE stuff would be bordering gross at this point if I'm making all my emotions up.

I know "I wouldnt X as wolf" doesn't work as an argument especially when I've never randed wolf, but I literally can't imagine a world where I skip out on the first half of the game citing basically "yeah didn't want to play", saying half the things I said in this thread, DOING half the things I did in this thread, lynching Vaimes as a partner Day 1 the way I did , sleeping at all frankly both EoD and things like when Eido is pushing me etc, then nightkilling the next day's mislynch.
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I know you guys don't really know me as a player, but you guys also kind of do.
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If I weren't an INSANELY high effort wolf I'd feel like a sack of shit.
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Also terrified of TMI, that's exactly how all the scum got caught my first game with a super town-siding scum who went really hard against just her buddies.
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Yeah yeah, useless speculation, I know.
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But seriously: "here are all of town and there are no scum, you are all just town to me" "vote:vaimes" is just mindblowing to me.
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Yeah I don't know why I'm more insulted by my speculated wolf play than my actual town play (which is apparently newbie asf) but I kinda am.

 

Hi lyric.