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WIP A Practical Guide to Evil by Erraticerrata - T - Original Fantasy

Discussion in 'Original Fiction' started by DvorakQ, Apr 14, 2016.

  1. Seratin

    Seratin Proudmander –§ Prestigious §– DLP Supporter

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    Not gonna lie I'm not sure I like the direction this is going.
     
  2. Mutton

    Mutton Order Member

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    This feels super cliche
     
  3. Stealthy

    Stealthy Groundskeeper

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    I figure yes in some ways, no in others. The sense of "jesus christ it's been six fucking months since we left the Crusade" will be gone, but the chapter bloat will be felt more. Excess Chapters = Excess Material, and if you're going in one full swing you'll feel that drag in a different way, even if individually each scene is good. Also some of the "why the fuck is this happening?" questions that linger for days/weeks on account of the serialized format will be answered in hours instead, which is definitely a boon. As a clear example, the strong Evilness Cat was delving in raised questions of "why does Cat think this is okay?", but turns out that no, it's not okay and the story knows it. We just hadn't gotten to that realization yet. Not the first time the story's done that (damn, this Keter arc is really anticlimactic unless the Empress has a third decoy lying around and oh wow turns out she does and it's Athal).

    As a character growth piece, this is chapter great for Cat. A nice culmination. As for the result of conceding entirely to the Sve... I dunno. With Seratin here where I could see that going badly. Also wondering how Cat and the Woe are gonna be able to trade with the Crusader Band of Heroes without her mantle, because I don't care if she doesn't intend to, the Saint and the Choir of Judgement want her head. Also I'm pretty sure Masego would like to blow up the entire nation of Ashur, so there's that issue to contend with. And I'll be very disappointed if the Woe vs Crusaders winds up being a big fat cocktease.
     
  4. Ryuugi Shi

    Ryuugi Shi Hierarch

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    So, we go on a trip down memory lane with some new perspective, as Cat takes a lot back at old events either with an older perspective or without Winter goggles. It's okay enough and I appreciate acknowledgements like this:

    But on the whole, the first two flashbacks felt a bit too flashbacky, while all the good stuff was saved for the latter half. Eventually, we do come around to the main part of all this, however--set to a backdrop of a hypothetical 'Cat won' situation, though amusing, even Cat can't puzzle out any real way for that to have happened--during which Cat reveals her big idea for resettling the drow.

    She'll put them in the Kingdom of the Dead. You know, after defeating the Dead King and then terraforming the entire country, of course.

    Not gonna lie, if I were Sve Noc, I'd have been tempted to tap out right there, just because eating pretty much any other country sounds easier, but whatever, I guess; I'll make allowances for the sake for this story getting back to the plot.

    ...I'm still going to nitpick like a motherfucker, though. First off:

    Hahaha, from what we've seen, war between the drow and the Princes would not be constant, it would be incredibly brief, and horrific for all the humans involved.

    Leaving aside for the moment that we're seriously just brushing over a mass terraforming project--that highlighted bit is nearly handwaved, but it's important. See, that bit right there doesn't benefit the drow much at all, because it means they're suddenly stuck with a permanent fire under their asses without any real upside over living anywhere else. This was Cat's plan to essentially screw over the drow forever with the Liessan Accords--which, remember, the oaths made them abide by forever--not something that the drow should have any actual desire to do, given free reign. Like, if we're talking about mass terraforming, Praes is actually less of a shit hole than the Kingdom of the Dead and the drow could live there just fine, particularly if they just eat the brains of all the mages in Praes first. I'm not seeing why any drow ever would want to fucking fight the Dead King forever.

    Also, we get this about the dwarves:

    Which we all kind of knew, because the story has told us before, but which still baffles to fuck out of me, because the hell? Like, sure, their now super-ancient forging tools could ruin buildings and all, but like, this arc has made a thousand drow demigods and they all just got a Faerie upgrade. Whatever, though. The chapter ends with Cat seemingly becoming a Winter Night Priestess, which could be cool.

    Gotta say, this was kind of weird, but as long as we're getting the fuck out of here, I won't complain too hard.
     
  5. Seratin

    Seratin Proudmander –§ Prestigious §– DLP Supporter

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    What I got from this is that Cat is now a lackey. That was a long ass book with a lot of nothing happening for long stretches and the pay off at the end is that Cat is now somebody's bitch.
     
  6. Ryuugi Shi

    Ryuugi Shi Hierarch

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    Well, I mean, that's true, but at the very least, Cat has been on again off again someone's 'lackey' for three books now; it's not a state of affairs I'm pleased with, but Callow's spent most of the time she's been in charge of it on fire, so I'm willing to see how it develops, and hey--there are worse states of affairs for her to be in then the lackey of someone who could probably annihilate everyone on the surface of Calernia, because putting aside Cat's apparent concern over other people fighting a drow occupation*, Sve Noc is a goddess as far as everyone but the dwarves and Dead King are concerned.

    It's a gripe I have, don't get me wrong--but above it on my list of WTF is the fact that Cat's brilliant plan for resolving the drow problem here literally has 'Get the entire fucking continent to agree with me and help out,' 'Terraform an entire island with is currently actively poisonous,' and 'Oh, by the way, beat up the Dead King and shove him in his hell locker' as steps.

    That's not a plan, Cat. It's up in the air if any single one of those things is possible for you.

    *Because their opinions could matter, some how? I feel like if the drow occupied Callow, they could put, like, an individual Longstrider on each national border to murder any armies that swung by, and that could be the sum-total of their nation defense policy.
     
  7. Seratin

    Seratin Proudmander –§ Prestigious §– DLP Supporter

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    What's your opinion on her current power level?

    I mean, she's taken a major downgrade from almost Goddess to priestess and she's entirely mortal now. Does she get to fuck aroud with Winter and Night as a mortal?
     
  8. Ryuugi Shi

    Ryuugi Shi Hierarch

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    I honestly have no idea; it's pretty much impossible to say until we see her do stuff. Does she have access to Winter as a mortal? The Night? Both? Neither? Did she get a Name out of this? Rather notably, the Priestess of Night was kind of the drow name, if she got that, so she'd be pretty hardcore if she got access to it, but we really have no way to know what she can and cannot do at this point. For all we know, she still has all her powers from before, just as a human. I do expect that she either got some kind of Name or will get one soon, though, which at the very least means some new Aspects, if nothing else, but that's like saying 'Expect three random superpowers or something', and if she becomes a priest Name, then that means access to literal fucking miracles, which is even more '???'

    Granted, 'we really have no way to know what she can and cannot do at this point' has kind of been the default state for Cat the last book or so, so what else is new?
     
  9. rusk

    rusk First Year

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    It seems to me that this whole books point was to turn her mortal again, which means everything she learned while fighting with her mantle for the past 50 chapters now means nothing. Which sort of makes half this book complete filler?? She was finally actually acting like the Winter Queen for once making deals with other nations, giving power to her followers and now she’s just another person taking orders? I feel like thats more of a regression for her character than actually losing her mantle. Idk not really where I saw this going which I guess is a point for the author but not one I’d rather give. It now feels like Sve Noc and her decisions are what will change the face of the continent instead of Cat and her will to do what she believes is best.
     
  10. Mutton

    Mutton Order Member

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    I'm starting to feel like only Book 2 was really good tbh
     
  11. Glimmervoid

    Glimmervoid Professor

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    Not entirely. Remember when she started to learn to replicate Night tricks using Winter and the idea that powers were, to some degree, interchangeable? Well, given that she is now Priestess of Night, she logically will have access to a lot of Night. She will develop Night versions of her Winter ticks.
     
  12. Seratin

    Seratin Proudmander –§ Prestigious §– DLP Supporter

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    It kind of feels like the author went running with the whole Winter thing and has had to retcon it, tbh.
     
  13. Stealthy

    Stealthy Groundskeeper

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    This is a big potential step forward for Cat as a character, but a bigger step back for the story. Make Cat lose? Knock her off the throne? Even strip her mantle? Sure, go for it. I can roll with that. But this is a return to subordination, and to tertiary characters to boot. The story is off the rails and I have no idea where it's going to land. And not in a good way. This isn't how you throw your protagonist to rock bottom. There's supposed to be an expectation of the protagonist climbing back up, not this being the new status quo.

    Also, what ever happened to the whole "Cat turned heroes into artifacts" thing that the prologue hinted at?
     
  14. Ryuugi Shi

    Ryuugi Shi Hierarch

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    I don't know if I'd call the drow tertiary characters at this point; keep in mind that the drow arc has now officially gone on longer than the entirety of Book 1 (30 chapters), and is doing it's damnedest to approach the length of Book 2 (58 chapters, counting the Interludes). We got on this wild ride in Chapter 48 and it's chapter 82 now (34 chapters, but we've also had eleven interludes), and we're still not done. For the record, we left Callow in something like Chapter 27? So between that and the twelve interludes since then, it's been longer than Book 2 since we've Cat was inside the country she's doing all this shit for, which got it's entire government gutted last she heard.

    None of that is an excuse. None of that is a defense. None of that is necessarily even to this story's credit. But I don't think we can call these guys tertiary anymore; for better or worse, and I know where my vote probably falls even though I've enjoyed some of these later chapters, this is a big damn chunk of not only this Book, but the story as a whole. Have we had more time dedicated to the drow than to the Crusade at this point? I think we fucking have, not just in this book specifically, but in general, and god knows they've have better showings. Hell, let's be real; the continent spanning war became a side note to the drow arc the moment Urulam nearly murdered Cat, and ceased to matter at all the moment we found out that there were a literal thousand stronger guys running around in the Everdark. The power levels in this book went fucking insane.
     
  15. Nazgoose

    Nazgoose The Honky-tonk ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter DLP Gold Supporter

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    Interlude was fun all around, but that final conversation between Friedrich and the Dead King ranks in my top scenes from the entire series. All the way through you can tell that the DK is playing an entirely different game from everyone else, and I love him to death for it.
     
  16. Ryuugi Shi

    Ryuugi Shi Hierarch

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    I've said it many times before, and I'll say it again--I always love the Interludes in this story, even when I find myself growing tired of arcs of the story itself. This Interlude has three parts; one of a girl at the harbor's of Cleves when the dead come, one of the dwarves when Cat comes back, and one of Hannoven, when the dead come to call.

    The first interlude is good, though there's not all that much to say about it; the dead fuck up the place and heroes show up to help, seemingly the White Knight and the Witch. I wish them luck, because they're gonna need it in this fucking mess.

    Meanwhile, with the dwarves, we get a bit of insight into their culture--some info on the Herald of the Deeps, bits of info regarding either relationships between castes or gay marriage in the Kingdom Under, implications that part of dwarven society works by finding spirits of the deep and tying them to forges. Not much else to say there, aside from this--the drow are agreeing to go along with plan 'wage war on the Dead King', for reasons I don't understand. I don't understand why they would, first of all, but perhaps even more than that, I'm not sure why anyone else thinks it's a good idea, either. I mean, making your enemies fight each other sounds great on the surface, but keep in mind, with the drow and the Dead King, whoever loses just makes the winner a bigger problem.

    But in the last part, we see Hannoven fall, and it's good. Well, I have some nitpicks, because I'm me, but it's well done characterwise and all the problems can be brushed over just by virtue of the fact that, yeah, the Dead King isn't really trying yet. The Lycaonese fight fairly well, for what they have, and show their experience in these matters, I just have some gripes because Procer still exists in a mystery state of 'How do you guys survive, though?'

    For example, half the muster of Hannoven after it assembles every able-bodied person it has, amounts to fifteen thousand troops, meaning it had thirty thousand total. For the army meant to hold back the ratlings and the dead, that's...kind of small. And the only they really special about them was their giant brass balls; they didn't have many mages, few priests, and relied on mundane defenses, when nothing about their enemies was mundane. But at the same time, they hold for a month and seven days, even after the Dead King sends some dead Heroes out? I'm not sure how that works out; I'd have either expected it to take a long time, if they were actually prepared to fight shit even remotely like this, or else be very brief if they weren't, but we instead strike a weird balance?

    That might just be the wonky power levels this volume coloring my perceptions, and again, it's not like the Dead King was trying, but it just feels weird. I could see it if they were actually showed the power Procer supposedly has but never shows, but they don't. Like, for example:

    And it's just, the story hasn't taught me to expect messed up passages to stop heroes, and it especially hasn't taught me to expect mundane fortifications with mentions of priest or spellwork, to hold against mages even briefly.

    That's just me thinking about things, though; it's a good bit of story telling, I just don't understand how war works in this series, as Named and Mages periodically wobbles between immediately deciding a fight and not mattering, and it's just kind of weird.
     
  17. Seratin

    Seratin Proudmander –§ Prestigious §– DLP Supporter

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    I feel entirely like we've been cheated out of more Friedrich.
     
  18. Teyrn

    Teyrn Order Member

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    Nah, this is the dead king they're playing with. He'll be back.
     
  19. Stealthy

    Stealthy Groundskeeper

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    Anaxares, I love you. Back when he and Cat had their first chat, Neshamah said that the Tyrant had a plan to take down an angel that not even the Bard picked up on. Sure, he's the Dead King and is one of the world's best liars, but looks like the Hierarch (rather unsurprisingly) might be key to that trap.

    Black has apparently taken up Cat's bad habit of snarking against people who can kill him at will. Also, this explains why Saint hates Ranger so much.

    Anyhow, is Bard really still trying to push the "Amadeus turns on Malicia" story? I get why, and her actions thus far support it (or at least forcing a break between the two), but it seems rather doomed to fail.
     
  20. Ryuugi Shi

    Ryuugi Shi Hierarch

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    It took me a long time to write up this post, in part because it took me a long time to figure out how I felt about this chapter. This was the Epilogue to Book 4 and...I like everything in the chapter, but I don't like the chapter, if that makes any sense at all. Just to start with, there's the simple fact that it's an epilogue, which feels weird. Like, I kind of expected this chapter, in a way, and yet it still feels shockingly abrupt. Or, no, I think the better term is unearned; this chapter does what it does very well, but it doesn't feel like it deserves to. I mean, this is an epilogue? To what? It feels like we just wandered in the wilderness for forty years.

    In a certain sense, that's probably inevitable. For those who don't know, this was originally meant to be Book 4 out of 5. Now, it's 4 out of 6, because Book 4 went on so long, he had to break it in half. And I get that, I do, but man does it show here; this definitely feels less like a stopping point and more like someone called a time out. It even feels kind of weird, honestly, because it all has to do with the Crusade that we spent the last fifty chapters not dealing with. I mean, we're back with Black now, who's still alive, for reasons--but I'm not even annoyed anymore, I'm just confused. Like, am I supposed to think you matter now? Cat just spent entirely too long getting allies who have a thousand members that are individually stronger then Black and all his armies combined. Our return to him and his foreshadowed importance is just confusing to me, in that light, even if I enjoyed seeing him again.

    Similarly, I love the Tyrant and Hierarch to death, but this book did all of nothing with them and nothing with the Crusade and damn well close to nothing with the heroes, so their return fell kind of flat to me. Like, okay, the Free Cities are invading Procer; we all knew that would happen eventually. But, like, so what? Procer was hopelessly fucked up the ass before and is still hopelessly fucked up the ass now. Similarly, the idea that, gasp, the Hierarch and Tyrant might be able to take down the heroes would hit harder if there was any reason at all whatsoever to believe that the heroes stood a chance in hell to begin with, which there isn't. Like, the lot of heroes in this story was poor even before this book, but this book has done absolutely nothing to make them seem like a real threat. No, not even the Pilgrim's cool moments, because let's be real here; we've run into more then one being that every hero on the continent put together probably couldn't beat, and Cat's teamed up with something like a thousand guys that are as good as the top two heroes on the continent. The heroes don't have a chance, they aren't going to win, and they're fucked; more at 11.

    Like, it's a good chapter? It's well written, it's funny, I love both pairs of characters involved. I'll go through this later and quote the Tyrant and Hierarch and Black and the Bard a whole bunch and speculate and all that stuff later, because all of them are well written, characterwise. It's just that plotwise, this seems like a low note to end on for a Book already filled with low points. Saying the heroes are dumb and weak and doomed is not a cliffhanger or hard hitting blow in this story; the heroes have been dumb and weak and doomed from the beginning.