Meta stuff for fonti/Vaimes and to a lesser extent Gemma is just... messy, and kind of boring.

With all three of them, as we've talked about, I do think there's ~something wonky but I'm not going to force a gut feeling into a real read when the gamestate is like, "D1 and let's just lynch someone wolfy and see what happens."

If you want some quick hits, though....

Vaimes has gotten better as a wolf; you used to be able to basically feel the "oh my god I'm a witch I just want to hide in my QT the entire game" desperation coming off every single post of his as mafia. He's not that obvious anymore. I'd say he's still a player who feeds off good energy in witchchat. If he's a wolf this game I'd say he's probably not super thrilled with his team but is happy with where they're currently at.

Fonti has some organic, natural flow in her gentle/guiding -> sharp/attacking flow as a villager. She's a little more rigid as a wolf and you can basically count on her to come up with a sharp, kind of slightly reachy case on somoene about 2/3 of the way into D1. Her thing on shadow isn't... really that, though. I mean I'm biased since it matches a lot of what I'm thinking, and fonti's pretty comfortable switching up her meta. Gun to my head she's town here though.

Gemma is posting a lot and I've agreed with a fair bit of what she's said, which is enough for me to leave her alone D1.
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.... I did?

My case on shadow didn't have anything to do with meta beyond a vague recollection of what happened in that team mafia game, and that was a parenthetical point at best.

I mean you were actually a wolf with him in that game, so if you thought I meta-eviscerated him then go me I guess.

 

Vote: Dels

 

Huh yeah I mean I guess. By my standards it really wasn't though.

 

I mean, I guess it wasn't really meta, you're right. I guess I meant more that it at least came from a good understanding (seemingly) of how Shadow plays. But it's true the things you pointed out were just wolfy in general.
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To be fair Gemma, the people Jari was talking about were the null fluff/kai/???(can't remember the rest) pile, whereas I was talking about different people.

Basically a thought I had was that, even though I'm far from certain about it, it does seem like at least one of Vaimes/Fonti/Gemma may be scum, and if so, I'd expect a town!Newcomb to be destroying them, so since he's not, maybe he's scum with one of them.

It's a stupid thought but if you expected smart from me then you haven't been paying attention.
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Though I am reminded of the Shadow cases and I have to say the fact that Newcomb and Fonti both saw the same things is kind of +townpoints for both of them due to the mindmeld principle.
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I haven't been thinking of the fact that this game is flipless, but I'm actually starting to become a bit concerned. Like, we could lynch Shadow today and if he's town we will never know that Fonti and Newcomb strongly pushed a mislynch. And we can't get confirmation that he's scum which could let us townread Fonti and Newcomb. Except I think there's some roles that could maybe check.

 

The bold part is... way too specific for me to think that's something town Newcomb actually believes.

Like, I get the depth in the meta here, but I feel like if I said something like this Newcomb would smack me.

It's the first post of his that made me stop and go "...huh."

 

I honestly don't really think Gemma is a wolf. Fonti is a maybe, but again, if she's a wolf she's playing a great wolf game. If Vaimes were a wolf, I'd go back and look at everything Newcomb has said about him, to try and determine if Newcomb should've called it or not.
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Like Gemma has just spent too much time genuinely trying to evaluate me, imo, if she's a wolf. And to progress to a vote on me as well, now of all times? Especially when you consider she's the person in the game who is literally the most capable of pocketing me, I am literally in the game for her.
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Btw I did see Cobalt's post about Newcomb/Vaimes before I posted that, but I was thinking it and planning to post it before I saw his post. So it's not an x-post but also not a blatant sheep.

 

Hey, maybe we're all town and life is good?

We've got people who can tell us what the lynched person was. I wouldn't worry about until we're there.

And it's kind of looking like we're not lynching shadow today, which I'm not particularly ok with.

Can other people talk about their scumreads on Von? We could do the everyone posts at the same thing? 11pm est works for me.

 

This is way too self-aware.

 

Hm? Personally I'm still fine with a Shadow lynch, I just don't think it's worthwhile to vote there, trying to explore other stuff. (In my very limited capability to do so)
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I'll maybe do the Vaimes ISO before 11pm est and see what I come up with. No guarantees but.

 

I just mean that the fact that you felt the need to point out the somewhat unrelated crosspost wasn't a sheep seemed fake.

 

That's fine.
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Cobalt more thoughts on Newcomb? Since you are the expert

 

I also think in a game where Dels has seemed sufficiently scummy to me, town Newcomb doesn't feel the need to acquiesce to what Dels is asking of him w/r/t Fonti/Gemma/Vaimes meta.

I've asked Newcomb for deliberate things before and been told "no" when he's being stubborn. This doesn't feel natural. It's like he's doing what he's told to look good.
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I'm gonna keep re-reading but in most games Newcomb screams town at me and this isn't one of them.

 

If Dels and Newcomb are scum together, what is Shadow?
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But also wait, if Newcomb is ascquiescing to what I want from him, wouldn't that make me town? Or you think it's a w/w interaction to make him look more involved?
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I'd like to see Cobalt and Gemma debate their opposing views on Newcomb.

 

Why did you need to make this post?

The entire setup revolves around it being flipless, with roles that receive certain information about flips so that the random distribution of town vs. witch makes information unreliable.

Anyone who is playing a game of witch hunt and who has read the setup, especially a player as competent as you, doesn't express concern that we'll "never know" if someone pushed a mislynch or not.

"Except I think there's some roles that maybe could check."

Do you think that? Or did you read the setup and know that? Because if you read the setup and you knew that then you know that there will be information coming out in this game at some point or another and you don't consider never knowing what's a mislynch and what isn't to be a possibility.

Or are you just putting that last bit in there because you know what you're saying is completely pulled out of your ass and you want to set up coverage?

 

Hey, no. Normally I'd just let this go but I was actually kind of proud of that read so you get to get smacked around a little.

Vaimes plays off the energy in witchchat, that's a fact. I abandoned him in sooh's game to try to post more naturally by not checking scumchat, and it fucked us both. Vaimes collapsed in Concussion Mafia because Sloth basically outed on D1 and you zero posted.

If Vaimes is a witch here, he's not with like, Dels/fonti/Gemma. That's just not the team, that's not the energy he's bringing to the table here. Similarly, he's almost certainly not with like, shadow/Kai/fluff. You'd be able to see some of that despondency if he was. In fact if he's a witch and fonti is town then shadow is probably a miss, don't think if me / fonti are v/v and he's with shadow he'd be quite this blase either. Well.. ehh maybe he just subtly pushes elsewhere and yeah ok maybe that specific bit is a stertch.

But if Vaimes is a wolf here I think he's with something like, idk, tom/manasi/silverslot or something. Like, probably good for the Day, but doesn't think they're rolling the game from the jump or anything.

 

I don't think you and Newcomb are w/w.

I'm living in two potential worlds with recent scummy things and I think they're mutually exclusive. Not that it's a hard unalign but you being witches together feels weird in the way Newcomb responded to your request for meta and the way you're trying to dictate the thread into discussing him.

I'm honestly so blown away by how icky you're both making me feel that I don't know which one to bite on.
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Okay, that feels significantly more substantiated and better.

What do you think about my recent Dels posts?
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I am not willing to go to bat for Shadow after I've done that on a mindmeld and it bit me in the ass, but I think everything about him and the pressure he's gotten feels like low hanging fruit and thus I strongly believe witches to be Elsewhere (TM).

 

Oof. I feel the heat.

I didn't need to make that post. I was just thinking out loud.

I don't really know why the setup is the way it is. I haven't thought much about it.

I read the setup once earlier but couldn't remember the details. I did think there were some roles that could check, yes! And I was right! Looking at it now, I see how the roles that can tell us flip info work. I'm not that competent, anyway.

I don't really know what information will come out or not, tbh. Idk if those roles optimal play it to claim, or also they could've randed to the scum, or they could die, etc. I haven't thought much about it.
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Whoa there, buddy, I think you're getting a bit too caught up in your own view here! "Dictating the thread into discussing him?" I mean, he's a significant player and I've asked people for their opinion! Isn't that exactly what a townie might do? Not a very charitable view imo! How would you feel if I said you were dictating the thread into discussing me and Newcomb?!

 

Just gonna nip this in the bud:

Dels if you're town, don't calibrate me to Mountainous Arson. That was a completely different context. That was subbing into a game that was basically already over with a ton of information already out there, and even then having an unusually high level of conviction on one specific player (lissa w) and having the entire game fall into place. That was a perfect storm situation.

I am nowhere near as confident on literally anything in this game, and frankly if I was that would be very weird for me. My normal approach to D1 is "get some townreads, shruglynch outside them". To me, shadow's maybe slightly above a coinfip. 60-40 maybe. Like I would not be at all shocked if he flipped v here, just like, mildly surprised.

So yeah don't come at me with BoP. I'm allowed to be wrong and I'm allowed to not solve the game on D1.
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I think they make you slightly more v, you/Dels more likely to not be w/w, and my opinion of Dels in unchanged.

 

I wasn't comparing you to Mountainous Arson. Sorry if you felt that way. I wasn't thinking of that game at all, since, as you said, it's a different scenario. It'd be hypocritical of me to place a burden on you to do more. But I do think if Vaimes were a wolf I'd want to look and see how you treated him. Not because I expect you to get everything right 100% of the time, but just because you've said Vaimes is an easy read in the past.

 

Why is Shadow scum?