Politics isn't so simple as marriage ties between four distant families. Westeros isn't centralized. The King as the manage the Crownlands, which are overtly hostile to the new regime, as well as the greater whole. Who aren't much better. The Vale, the Riverlands, and the Stormlands were all divided in the war. That means neighbors were fighting each other, which creates problems that don't just go away. Allies have to be rewarded, enemies censured. All while maintaining peace and stability. Meanwhile the Lannisters are continually grasping for more influence. Everything that was burned and damaged had to be fixed, such as the capital and royal fleet. This is before getting into foreign politics and any outstanding problems he inherited with the throne. We know that Robert is a great diplomat, he would've played a big part in keeping things going.

There is a tendency in FF to simplify that I don't understand. Things are complex and difficult, that's what makes them interesting. Given the job he had to do, his depression, his isolation as King, Cersei, it's no wonder he became a drunk.

 

Stumbled across the start of something half decent. Son of Man(nis) is an ASoIaF SI with the SI being an older brother to Shireen. It's a bit tech uplifty, but in a way that 95% of other tech uplifts don't do, in that we're not subjected to long lists and internal monologues about how they're going to invent the printing press and bring the good word to the unwashed masses. The uplift is pretty much relegated to the background, while the story is so far written like an actual story, with narrative and character interactions.

 

Kinda sorta. What I'm thinking isn't so much "a better king" so much as "a less aggrieved king". Being "better" is a very possible consequence of such, that's certainly true, but it isn't a necessary follow-on.

The idea is simply a point of divergence where, instead of the canonical spiral of depression and booze, he has a revelation early on that politics is battle in another form or something and is able to find a measure of satisfaction/personal fulfillment in being king. He would be somewhat more capable of detecting the various political issues of his realm, simply due to being more engaged than he was in canon, but not necessarily any better equipped to deal with them or build a proper dynasty that would outlast him.

The ramifications of that, of a more engaged and active central authority that's actively trying to increase stability, would, I think, be quite interesting to see as Westeros progressed into the canon events, most prominently Daenarys and the White Walkers.

That's actually pretty simple. Authors simplify for one of two reasons: 1) They don't want to deal with the complexities of the topic, and so handwave them away, or 2) They don't understand the complexities of the topic, and so mindlessly wallpaper over them.

It's pretty much always one of those two, and it's usually pretty easy to figure out which one by reading.

 

I think you'd be messing with a fundamental aspect of his character in that he's excessive, he eats too much, he drinks too much, etc, etc.

 

I would disagree with his being a basically good king, even in book one, when things were generally good. He's deeply in debt to the Lannisters, and it's not because he's spending on things that will enhance the economy; he's literally just throwing huge feasts and holding tournaments for every occasion, like the appointment of a new Hand who finds himself increasingly disappointed with his old friend. Robert was excellent on the battlefield, but he was not built to rule; he has no real friends except Eddard and Barristan and he doesn't even realize it; he actually thinks his wife is loyal to him except for the fact that she won't sleep with him and he's got no idea why that is. His problem as a king is the rather simple problem of being a big fucking buffoon who can't be bothered with the boring details of politics, doesn't realize that his enemies are handing him alcohol all the time because he's making it too easy for them to make him a drunk- he doesn't even know he's too fat for his own armor, and he gets mad at the squire kid who was trying to get him into it, but couldn't because his body is like 40% wine and 40% fat at this point.
The fact that things were good in chapter one of book one does not make him a good king. Things were good because there wasn't a war, and there wasn't a war because his enemies would rather just kill him quietly between drinking and a wild boar, the better to get away with it.
I would like to add that he did not inherit the throne, he took it. He decided that he would be the high king of the Seven Kingdoms, united under the Iron Throne by the Targaryens. He did not keep it united for long, as he had to put down the Greyjoy Rebellion roughly six years after he sat on the stack of swords, and it ended roughly nine years before the books started. Again, he's good at war, and I doubt anyone could have prevented the rebellion, but the Seven Kingdoms were hardly as united as they were under the dragonkings.
No one's disagreeing with the fact that politics and keeping a realm together is complicated, but the idea that he was a good king is pretty ridiculous. Jon Arryn was a good Hand, and Robert made it clear in chapter three or something that his understanding of royalty is that the Hand does all the work and thinking while the king does whatever he wants.

 

Not really. The idea would be simply that he channels that excess in productive directions.

Canonically, after the rebellion, he entered into a spiral of depression because, simply put, his personality was much better suited for being a rallying point and leader of a band of rebels than actually sitting down and administering a kingdom. Once he got stuck with the boring part of the job, he tried to fuck off, and became increasingly depressed when he kinda couldn't. Not to mention the whole having to be married to Cersei thing.

What I'm asking about is simply a story where instead of falling into booze and whores to drown out his sorrows, he changed the way he thought about politics and, if not enjoyed, then at least learned to be satisfied by it. The landscape of the realm would be altered dramatically, and I think it would be a very interesting what if to see unfold.

 

Robert wasn't so much grossly incompetent as he was grossly negligent. Dude didn't care, did as he pleased, and let Jon Arryn try and run the realm while the rest politicked around the both of them. Agayek's asking for a Robert who actually tried to be the king, even if he kept his personality flaws.

 

It's all guess work really we don't know enough to make any claims about if he's 'depressed' or whatever, I imagine a few people are 'depressed' in Westeros. We do know that he enjoyed excess in his youth and in his adulthood. I see him as a fairly common archetype not incredibly complex.
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Ya, I don't disagree he is good at dealing with people and somehow keeps the realm together forever long he does. The problem is his character. Dude wants to party all night and wake up in afternoon which would be fine if he wasn't the king.

 

I'm not trying to claim Robert's clinically depressed or whatever, I wouldn't know the first thing about diagnosing that, but the man clearly was not particularly happy with how his life had turned out; he hated politics, management, responsibility, basically all of the work that was now expected of him, and he especially hated his wife. Hell, if memory serves, he openly admits to Ned that he's completely bloody miserable and it's driven him to drink and whore because at least that isn't completely soul-crushing.

Maybe he's technically not depressed, but either way, he uses booze and whores to make his life a little less soul-crushing, and the idea I'm trying to get at is a story where he focused that energy on finding fulfillment as a king.

 

Robert was grossly negligent from the very first day on the throne. Incompetence is only the expected result of his negligence.

 

@Agayek your idea has merit, and it will a most welcome spin to ASOIAF.

Few thoughts:

1) Robert was trained by Jon to be Lord Paramount, further the war might have opened his eyes to what Lords neglect can do to its people.
Stepping into becoming King, is more easier than for Eddard who was raise to be a North version of a Knight to be Lord Paramount.
He needs to learn two words:
delegation and review/inspection.
Delegate tasks to trusted people, but also verify they are doing what you aim for.
Have people who can be honest with you, might help him a lot.

2) Jon Arryn, I wonder what was his part in Robert continued negligence, how much he worked in fixing things in the background, enabling Robert behavior by not forcing him to face the consequences of his actions.

3) Cercei, she is a curse, even if Robert becomes somehow competent, that woman can drive anyone, to drinking and whoring.
On their wedding day, she bedded her brother if i recall correctly.
Robert can choose to appease the Tyrell (or marry to one of their more influential banner-man), or having the sack going wrong and Tywin army suffers from something.
Does the Lannister have other eligible girls to marry a King ?

4) To me it seems that Robert was lonely, he was surrounded with people that he didn't consider friends, Jon is a father figure.
He hates his wife, and the only comfort he find are drinking and whoring.

Edit:
Thank you for your rec on AU, it is quite a fun.

 

It seems 100% uplifty tech.
It just starts in media res, having skipped a few steps along the way, which are usually annoying in these stories, but the changes the protagonist inflict are both financed by a "miraculous" finding of a bunch of valyrian steel weapons, and then with a loan from Iron Bank, and there are never any issues in trying to get others to follow his designs and is on the way of building an unstoppable power base, with modern ships.

Why can't there be an uplifty tech story where the uplifting bit backfires or doesn't work out the way the protagonist wants it to?

I really doubt most people of today could tell exactly what steps need to be taken in the building process to build a Galleon with working cannons and marines for protection. I doubt no one would try to steal the secrets to invention if it succeeds as much, or no one would ever try to to steal/sink one of the advanced ships to destroy competition.

I want a sense of danger and uncertainty in the uplifting stories, or better yet, not have the uplifting happen very quickly.

 

1- How long did it take for the dragonlords to actually take and keep Dorne? 175 years.
2- Dance of the dragons, first Blackfyre rebellion, Lionel Baratheon raising in rebellion...
3- And let's not forget that Robert took the throne by force because Aerys (a targ) caused the largest bout of disunity in the history of the seven kingdoms (5 realms in rebellions! (North, River, Vale, Storm, Iron))!
4- And exactly what does it matter that RObert took the throne by force? Aegon I didn't get to become emperor supreme of Wetseros by asking nicely either. Keep your dragon bonner in your pants.

For the first bit, technicaly we don't know what 6 millions dragons represent compared to the crown income and the debt wasn't just about banquets and tourneys but also Littlefinger investing in trade and production (he has a whole speech about it).

 

The sense of danger is slowly starting to build.
I advise to give this a chance, this fic is fun to read.
It isn't 4/5 but it is 3 stars for sure.

 

What sense of danger? Where? Which chapter? I see none.

I've read it all. I tried. I remember it being short, and it had "So bad it's good" moments, but it's nowhere near 4/5.

It's ~2/5 for me, and in some respects, I feel like it doesn't deserve even that.

It's a bad story and a mediocre timeline at best. (Alternate Histories forum is more keen to timelines and not real stories, which was promised to me by original post - that I'd be reading a story and not an elaborate timeline)

I'll elaborate:

First Chapter
It starts in media res, with no build up, and the start is nonsese when you think about it for more than a minute..

We jump from an incomplete description, to a personal opinion, to a non-sequitur about this being best place to talk to Stannis. We get a glimpse of Stannis eyes even though the protagonist approaches him from behind, like he was taught.

It's always this kind of mess, and if you turn away the logic, it might work as a story, but it's not that good of a story. Nowhere near 4/5 writing standarts of DLP.

There are continuity errors.
The first conversation is about how Stannis doesn't want to take "cannons" because they are not yet reliable. This line alone had given me hope, yet a few posts down the line, Stannis fleet is using the cannons against the ironborn, and the whole point of highlighting unclear upligting results becomes moot.

The canons are only mentioned, but that doesn't excuse their existance IF THE PROTAGONIST IS NINE YEARS OLD. WHERE AND HOW DID HE MANAGE TO GET CANNONS? I hate this so much.

Skipping the explanation of how Arthur managed to get alchemists working for him, how he convinced Stannis to fund his experments and how he already has working cannons at the age of NINE is not good storytelling. It's just skipped - and I know, if the story was all about those explanations, it would be the usual boring uplifting story, but you don't imply that it happened already without ANY explanation of how it COULD have happened.

The rest of first chapter tries to show that this Stannis was influenced by arthur and is softer, more open to his family. This is good example of in media res, where the change is visible, but believable, and the first chapter does imply that it is still a long process by having Arthur push Stannis into picking up his daughter. Credit where credit is due.

Next chapter
Shows that Arthur has set up schools for others. Already. At age 9. How? No explanation, but there's some exposition how Maester Cressen is roped into performing duties of a teacher.

Then, there's a wonder paragraph I am gone quote - Maester Cressen is talking with Stannis about Arthur, and this casual wall of achievements is thrown at us.

So that's
1. Night classes for adults (school for kids too is not included in this paragraph but it was highlighter before)
2. Newspaper
3. Printing press (low key)
4. Accountants and Merchants hired
5. Military doctrine research/reforms
6. Cannons
7. Fire-powder - make it "great quantities" of fire-powder

Arthur is 9 years old. How? Some of these are plausible (1 and 4, maybe), if he gets support of a parent. Everything else sounds like a large undertaking, which is glossed over in this single paragraph.
Yes, this is not an uplifting story - it's an UNEXPLAINED uplifting story.

Third chapter
This is pure uplifting story. Arthur has a short discussion with Davos about building better ships. That is all that happens.

Fourth chapter
Some showing how Arthur spends his days, and his plan for a treasure hunt. Also, paying money for people to learn to write and read. How does he get money? I imagine Stannis wouldn't just give Arthur money for his whims, but the issue is never mentioned.

Fifth chapter
Stannis thinks about arranging mariage for Arthur, as soon as Arthur hits 12. FIRST NON UPLIFTING CHAPTER. Good job.
"A bit tech uplifty" @TheWiseTomato Yeah, right. A bit.

6th chapter
This is an "amazing" chapter. Our POV character is Gerald. He's a cannoneer. With expermental canons. He likes his job.
... He's insane. Expermental cannons are super dangerous. People used to die even with long tested cannons, due to misfires and faulty powders and a million of different issues. He should be afraid for his life.
But no... We have a whole cheerful talk about how often misfires happen.
They're testing "thirty or so moulds" which is an insane investment of resources for an experimental weapon.
You don't start a project of this size as a 9 year old. Even if you do, if there's even a hint of potencial warfare use, you'd better believe someone ELSE is gonna be in charge soon.
By the way, they invent flares in this chapter, which are perfectly safe to use.

There's also some talk about finding a treasure room in dragonstone.

7th chapter
Stannis forces uses a cannon against ironborn, because he said in chapter one that they are not ready for warfare. Makes sense. Consistency is important.
The cannon in question even explodes, ruining its barrel.
It's written in such a vague way that I have no idea if the cannon is used aboard the ship or ashore, even after rereading the paragraph, and I decided that I don't care enough to find it, but the point is, a cannon exploding would have hurt people. It wouldn't be named great names and hailed as a wonderful weapon of war, but a costly one. Firing a primitive canon from a ship would be both hard and dangerous to attempt.
Stannis comments how this fight was decided before it even began or some such.

8th chapter
"My lord, we have found a vault" Of course there is a vault. Maybe it contains dragon eggs? Some superweapon to use later? Gold?
We do not find out, but we get some exposition about magic.
Magic, instead of how it is in ASOIF is not rare, dangerous and with a high price, but something Arthur is trying to reverse-engineer pragmatically. Cutting yourself with copper wepon produces a black tar that can be used to create wildfire. "how to make Wildfire, a surprisingly simple process in reality, though a clearly magical one."
Apparently, MAKING WILDFIRE IS SIMPLE PROCESS.
Wow.
The vault is not opened. Joy. Can't wait.

9th chapter
Davos gets a castle to surrender. Non uplifting chapter. Cool.

10th chapter
I was looking for this quote. It's in chapter 10.
They opened the vault. With magic. Because "Magic is just physics that we don't understand yet." -1 score. I rate Son of Mannis 1/5. Fuck you and everyone who likes this story.

There's a lift used. Because of course Arthur invented and used a lift.

They find 1000 year old books. Sure. A bunch of gold. Of course.
And... "more Valyrian Steel than there is in Westeros."
Why not find a full grown dragon that instantly loves the main character? Gold and old knowledge is not enough? Maybe find a simple picture on how to win the war? Why not find an Ironman Suit?
grr

11th chapter
Stanis figures out that canons might be useful. It's implied that the forces still use the half-broken canon, but it's not as effective.
I'm not even gonna tangle with this issue

...

There are more chapters to this story (first time I read up to 31, now there are a few more.). I don't want to.

The issue here is that Arthur can't do no bad things. There a hints of some targaryan inherited madness in him (like, one sentence, in chapter 8). He has created Cannons, Schools, has a newspaper and a printing press and has a forge that can mass produce canons, for there to be dozens of tests performed each day.

Arthur gets greyscale and heals himself. Because of course he can. But it takes up a few chapers.
Stannis lets him keep most of the money and loot from the vault.
Arthur launches a "Narrow Sea Trading Company" with additional loans from Iron Bank. Iron bank doesn't laught at a kid who comes in and claims that the has masterful plans and future riches.

Quickly enough, Arthur builds Galleons with canons that are bigger than all other ships, gets two of them, meets Brienne of Tarth, we reach close to his 12th birthday and he thinks on who's marriage proposal to accept. Arianne Martel apparently has written a letter hoping to marry him.
(this covers my first read through - up to chapter 31)

I glanced over the rest, and it's just pointles travel from Tarth to Dorne, visiting potencial wives. The conversation with Brienne of Tarth has potencial, but its handled in a very Alternate Histories way, without any build up, just magically getting Brienne to like Arthur, and then try to decide between Knighthood or marriage. Arthur is super understanding.



This is utter crap.
1/5
@TheWiseTomato , I trusted you and your recomendation.


The story might get better as it goes, but it's was never good to begin with and with foundations such as these...

 

I was sort of onboard with this story until that fact came out. I’m not going to pretend uplifts and SIs are known for being high quality work but I’ve enjoyed a few. Having the SI be a nine year old makes it abundantly clear the author just looked at the ASOIAF timeline and picked a number that meant he was born after Robert’s Rebellion and before the events of the book. Does the author remember being nine or know any nine year olds? The SI would either be the creepiest kid in the world or completely ignored.

 

He just wants his SI to be an adult by the time of the events of A Game of Thrones.

 

@Jeopardizer
1- Totally irrelevant. I compared Robert's ability to hold the realm together with the same ability in the dragonkings. You'll notice in the non-bolded text I conceded that Robert was good at war; he successfully took the Iron Throne and he put down the Greyjoy rebellion. Where he failed was in the subtler details like the plots to murder him.
2- Rebellions started, rebellions ended. As I gave credit to Robert for putting down the Iron Islands, it seems fair to give them credit for putting down the rebellions that took place during their time. The Targaryens ruled for 282 years, with an average reign of 16.5 years. Not an impressive difference between that and Robert's 15 going on 16, but for the record they were able to sit the throne for longer.
3- No one was making the argument that the Targaryens were good rulers, the books define them to be a toss-up, either great or mad with nothing in between. Aerys II was clearly the very worst out of all of them, making it particularly easy for Robert to find support among the nobility in the interest of throwing him out. As stated, the dragonkings were better on average than the Usurper, and if we were to factor in the children Robert raised as part of a 'Baratheon dynasty' the difference between the average of that and the average of the Targaryens is much worse.
4- My point about Robert taking the throne by force was not a moral criticism, it was to establish that he did not inherit any of the throne's problems. He decided he would be the best to fulfill the responsibilities of the high king of the Seven Kingdoms. Aegon the Conquerer built the throne with swords and dragon's fire, and he ruled for thirty six years, with the advantage of dragons and the general unwillingness to start a war right after one just ended, an advantage Robert also enjoyed. I mention dragons for the sake of transparency, but they're good for putting down rebellions, not keeping yourself from getting drunk and being a buffoon. No one with a dumb gaelic 'ae' in his or her name could have been saved by dragons from murder plots; out of 17 dragonkings we had 2 confirmed murders and 2 suspected murders, mostly poisoning. Having just read the damn wiki for every single death story, Robert seems most similar to Aegon the Unworthy, siring an infinite amount of bastards, getting really fat, and dying smeared in his own shit.
The point of my criticism of Robert was... a criticism of Robert, not a word of praise for the dragonkings. I can assure you I don't have a dragon boner. Quite a few of them were generally good kings, quite a few of them inherited problems that they had to fix. Some of them were as bad as Robert, and some of them, including the very last one, were worse.

 

A Storm in the North

The King in the North meets a very different Queen whilst at Dragonstone.

Daenerys ran away after her marriage to Khal Drogo only to be taken as a slave by pirates. Her journey is roughly the same albeit as a Pirate Queen rather than the Rightful Queen of the big 7 but due to her history of being a slave her goal isn't a throne, it's the end of slavery. It's during her journey of self-discovery after burning down Slavers Bay that she comes across the King of the North mining dragon glass at Dragonstone.

After showing her the cave drawings by the children, she agrees to help him in the battle against the dead both martially and logistically with the shipping of the dragon glass. It's on their way north that the story focuses on her history and how she came to be and showcasing the intelligence of the dragons, which in this story aren't just a flying boom stick. Story encompasses their journey from Dragonstone to White Harbour and is currently with them at Castle Black after their encounter with the Night King.

Home

A different take on season 8. Jon learns of his heritage in the presence of Daenerys, she becomes pregnant with his child and he learns to ride Rhaegal. It's a so and so fic however Bran is much more active during the battle of winterfell and Melisandre brings more than burning Arakhs to the table. Story has panned from their arrival at Winterfell to the battles against the dead and is now currently at their fight against Cersei.

Decent time waster.

 

This was a pretty solid one shot: Maternal Instincts.

Its from the prospective of Elia Martell, after Rhaegar wins the war and brings Jon to court. She decides the best way to make sure he’s never a threat to Aegon is to win him over with affection.

If that sounds like the start of a bad fic where Elia is a saint and everyone lives happily ever after, im not doing it justice. Definitely worth the read.