Is it believable luke could turn out to be like he did? Yeah sure.

Is it satisfying or a good story? Not really.

The main reason I watched these two movies is because I cared about the OG characters. Rey Poe and Finn have done nothing to make me care.

 

Hell, I liked Poe and Finn in TFA. The 5 minutes of screentime they shared showed their awesome chemistry, even though that also was plagued by stupid shit (that cord on the TIE Fighter, wtf was that). Their brief reunion on the Resistance base was the most chemistry any two characters shared in TFA.

Aaaaand in TLJ they got entirely separated so Poe could go up against a retarded character and Finn was made to team up with another retarded character he had negative chemistry with.

Watch this again, this is dank bromance

 

Poe is the one alright character these dumpster fires have given us.

 

Best scene of TFA @ScottPress

Would’ve loved a buddy cop movie with just those two. Forget Rey
Or hell

Have TFA be poe and Finn then let movie end with Finn taking the saber to Luke.

When he gets there Luke stands with his apprentice Rey. They were hunting down Snokes origins.


The last Jedi is then Finn out of his element as he follows these two Jedi on this epic mission.

Poe’s arc is becoming a war hero and leader of the rebellion.

Then you got a Kylo v Snoke subplot.

 

Unlikely. It's much more likely tied to the events of the movie, if the leaks are even close to accurate, and it's super dumb.

There were pretty happy with the original trilogy, and according to the box office, pretty happy with the prequels too, even if they bitched about it. Box Office numbers didn't go negative until Last Jedi, which should tell you something.

Also, re: your point on Luke, strongly disagree. The problem isn't so much where his character ended up though, as how he got there. It bears repeating that he went from seeing the best in everyone, from literally staring down a man who had tortured (and attempted to kill) his friends, maimed him, personally killed millions, and been party to the murder of billions, if not trillions, and believing enough in the good in him to bet both his life and the entire Rebellion on it, to having a bad dream about his teenage nephew and deciding said nephew was beyond saving.

And that's entirely incoherent characterization and poor writing. It would have worked infinitely better if they'd switched up the order of events and had Kylo murder his fellow trainees in a fit of darkside-fueled pique first, rather than as a response to Luke almost killing him. As at least then there'd be some vague justifications for it. As it stands, Luke simply spontaneously decided to stop being himself one day, nearly murdered his nephew, who took it rather poorly, and then Luke took that as a reason to repudiate everything he ever believed in.

Now, frankly, this is largely an issue that can ultimately be laid at Abrams' feet, rather than Johnson's, as he's the one who wrote Kylo's fall and all that, but Johnson was largely responsible for portraying where Luke ended up, and the total absence of any of Luke's previously defining traits, so he doesn't get to escape blame entirely.

 

Searching for 'star wars leaks' gives so much false information I'm not sure exactly what people are referring to. @Agayek, do you mind spoiler-tagging them and posting here?

 

Spoiler

Ending is apparently: Palpatine is an evil Force ghost and tries to fuck shit up. He possesses the Knights of Ren and tries to turn Kylo, IIRC there was sth about Kylo and Rey teaming up against the Knights, then a big fight Rey vs Sidious!Kylo, then Kylo throws off the possession and dies?

 

Spoiler

You forgot the part after that where Force-Ghost!Luke shows up and teaches Rey to resurrect Kylo so they can ride off into the sunset

Here's an article with it all laid out if anyone cares to read it:
https://boundingintocomics.com/2019...r-leaks-reveal-how-emperor-palpatine-returns/

 

IIRC very few of the 'omg plot leaks' were correct for Last Jedi or Force Awakens, and the ones that were close to accurate ended up being decent guesswork that stemmed from early cast off word of mouth versions of the script.

So take everything with a huge grain of salt. Disney has more of a handle on leaks and security than the fucking secret service.

That said, I would not be unhappy with a plot that resembles that "leak".

Spoiler

One of the most prominent and popular theories being thrown around right now stemming from this is that Snoke was also a possesed Palps vessel, which is why Rian was allowed to kill him off in such a nonchalant way.

You really need to read the established Snoke background and know the Lord Momin story to see the thread.

Basically they didn't give us a significant background for him because there really is no background to talk about. Snoke pre-possesion was a random dark side force sensitive who inevitably treks to the ruins of the Death Star seeking dark side artifacts. But heyo surprise Palps spirit is attached to the Death Star ruins, and he can possess force sensitives (a la Darth Momin) that journey inside to the reactor core remnants (that piece of machinery you see Rey and Kylo standing on in the teaser). And voila, the whole sequel trilogy ties together with OT. We have explanations for Snoke, and possibilities for possesed Knights/Kylo/Rey. This is also where most people think Matt Smith comes in, as either a younger unpossesed Snoke or a possesed Knight.

 

In all honesty, the one major issue with the leaked plot is the bit Scott forgot. The rest is just fine, and if executed competently would make for decent cinema.

 

Ironically, they weren't at the time. It's only as time has gone on that it's acquired near-scriptural status with them.

 

I think you missed my point. They bitched about em, sure, but they still kept turning up to watch the next one.

It wasn't until the sequel trilogy fucked everything up that they stopped pouring money at it.

 

Rather, they did what they always did, and hated them for frivolous reasons in proximity to their release, only to venerate them 20+ years later. TLJ stands at 13th in all time box office as of right now, making it arguably a great commercial success, despite the vengeful hatred from the Originals!Purists.

Even now, they're engaged in the post facto rehabilitation of their own memories of the Prequels, which they've spent nearly 20 years deriding. Suddenly, in light of the current offerings, they find that they actually rather enjoyed them. In 20 years' time, they'll be doing the same for these movies while busily hating on something else. It's all just masturbatory snobbery by those who refuse, point blank, to be pleased by anything.

 

As someone who hates the new trilogy but quite enjoyed the prequels when they came out...I tried to watch them a few months ago and just couldn't stand them. Aside from great action scenes and world building, it was too cringey to watch.

 

I think we can all thank The Clone Wars for making the prequels infinitely more bearable. Knowing the much finer details in Anakin's descent into the dark side, along with everything that was going on behind the scenes for a few years, makes the entire timeline feel not as randomly thrown together.

 

Again, missing my point. The fact of the matter is, despite all the fans bitching about the prequels at the time, they still sat down and watched them. Every prequel move made steadily more money than the last ($64m, $80m, and $108m respectively) on opening weekend, the period in which the fans go. So yes, they were complaining about various aspects of the prequels, but they were still watching the movies.

Compare that to the sequel trilogy, where TFA had a $247m opening weekend, and TLJ managed $220m. The difference is pretty clear.

People bitch about things they like all the time, it's one of the more common things you can use to tell if someone's a fan, that they're passionate enough to complain about stupid bullshit, and still watch anyway. And for better or worse, the numbers are indicating that the fans have stopped watching now too.

 

Are you sure the difference in TFA and TLJ opening weekends wasn't due to TFA being the first cinematic Star Wars in a decade, and one that looked a lot better than the prequels to many people? That's likely to drum up excitement far more than a sequel.

Saying that people no longer want star wars just based on a 27m dollar difference in opening weekend box office seems like an interpretation, but not any sort of clear truth. I would've thought Solo would be a stronger argument for the point you're trying to make.

 

That's certainly true, and it's exhibit B in the whole "fans have stopped paying for Star Wars", but I didn't use it because it's not a 'main' star wars movie. We don't have a direct comparison to Solo with the prequel period, while there's a direct apples-to-apples comparison between the two trilogies, and there's certainly an argument to be had re: sidestories attracting less interest in general.

 

I always figured people wanted sidestories, but that they wanted sidestories that explored weird shit in the universe instead of over-explaining main characters like Han.

I guess that's why there seems to be hype for the Mandelorian, and I can only hope that he doesn't turn out to be Boba Fett's cousin or something. It's something I like about TLJ, in that Rey isn't secretly Obi Wan's kid or something. I hope that IX doesn't undo that.

 

An 11% reduction can be accounted for simply by people not seeing it twice in opening weekend. They still went. They'll still go. They'll still bitch. It's just noise.