Lol I think this more falls into a disagreement on the definition of "control" vs. "convince" rather than any actual disagreement on game structure.

As for foregoing strategy...not sure where I said that. Explain?
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Sleep time for me. Will check in the morning!

 

It's gotten stronger on Tom. Yes its early in D1 but when there are 4 scums floating around its very VERY anti town to leave a lynch vote on someone you don't think is scum for almost an hour.

This is at 3:25. He posts 137, 139, 141 and is even reminded he still has a vote on someone he doesn't scum read and doesn't bother to take it off til 4:23.

 

I dont think this falls under "disagreement" in any way and i feel like i have a better basis on you now.
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Well thats
A new and exciting reason to be scumread

 

I'm a new and exciting sort of creature. Also a tired one. Puppy walking time and sleep.

 

Vote Keldeo
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I don’t have fluff as a scum lean

Just not a town one either
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Will be gone for about twenty four hours

 

I am sheeping Tammy's assessment that you lack the town!Tom sparkle. I have no way to tell for myself, but I've decided to trust her, for now.

If you read what I write, my thoughts are somewhat easier to follow?
"Pocketing" means "making a player like you", and one obvious way to do it is to agree with them.
If CerberAsta was scum with me, they would have no need to pocket me.

Do you ever do townhunting?

By asking questions, you control what the thread talks about.

At the same time, you avoid sharing your "thoughts and leanings", so your questions are a one-way-street: for me as an observer, they don't flow naturally from your observations and thoughts because you don't share those; and at the same time, whatever cryptic reactions you do show are so far removed from my own thoughts that I don't get where you're coming from. I should question you on almost anything you write, but I'm not sure it'd be helpful?
Maybe I'll select some questions soon.

The point is, you can appear active and avoid taking stances by asking questions. I recognize you do post things that aren't questions, but making sense of them is going to be a job.

And the weird thing is that you are asking me questions that just look like busywork. Like, asking what LHF means when I used Low Hanging Fruit with the capitalization a few lines prior reeks of "what townie looking question can I come up with " rather than an actial question you want answered, and the same goes for the "scum with Asta" question when I clearly explained they could be pocketing (and especially explained what pocketing means).
So, given that you were actually originally intending to host this, I'd kinda expect you to ask better questions than these. They seem super surface-level, and I'm starting to scumread you for that: town asks questions because they want to solve, scum asks questions because they want to appear towny, so if you're looking at the thread with a mindset of "what questions could I ask" with no actual thought process, it shows.

And you didn't tell anyone where my townread is coming from for you. That is no way to build a town core.

Because I haven't decided that yet?

Early on in my mafia career, I used to scumread players when they were wrong, pushing bad logic or bad strategies, and I found that quite a few players do that naturally as town.

I have also since seen players with a style such as sloth's be town. I'm going to need to build a bigger picture in my head of what's going on in the game in order to see alignments. Right now, I am poking at behaviours I don't understand, which is preliminary to that.

Though I am actually starting to lean scum on sloth now. I still want to do the work on them, though, because I still don't have a good understanding of what they're doing.

 

This strategy does not hold as much weight in a scum multi team game. When scum are also scum hunting they have to solve just as much as town

 

The point is that questions without a towny thought process behind them are not towny.

But let's discuss the scum mindset a bit more. When we talked about that in the beginning, you had observed that scum seemed to be hunting scum in that game you witnessed, but do they have to? Is our assumption correct? Like, scum still want to kill solvy towns, so if you're not looking scummy enough, you get killed early, as in any normal mafia game -- except, here we have the day 1 BPV, so it actually doesn't matter that much just now. But essentially, scum have to solve a little less than town?
Scum could play a defensive strategy, essentially playing to survive, shooting town or scum regardless, and hoping to be the last man standing. They'd still be wanting to stall everyone's solving process to get by undetected.

I'm in two minds whether it's a good idea to discuss town strategy, but, hmm, it definitely makes scum hunting more interesting.
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The thing is this: because of the BPVs, each scum team can kill exactly one of two players on day 1. If those players are widely scumread, the town watcher is likely to look there. So if mafia want to use their kill tonight, they have to try and get the player they want to kill townread, with the uncertainty that they could be mistaken and that player is actually town. So if they do a *strong* townread, they create a core town who'll be hard to mislynch.

tl;dr the mafia actually have different goals than town when they hunt scum.

The most successful mafia strategy is to hunt and get one enemy team player lynched today (and earn towncred for that), and to get the other enemy team player townread and killed unobservedly in the night. This requires creating a consensus scum read on a townie, who can then be tomorrow's mislynch.

 

But what do you define as a "towny thought process?" To me it's eliminating threats to Town which is scum...thing is we share the win con of getting rid of scum with the scum teams in this game. Up until one scum team gets rid of the other they're just as good as Town.

Stalling isn't actually a good idea for scum this early. They stall finding the other scum team and adopt a wait and see cause it doesn't matter who we lynch or NK pattern they are only drawing attention to themselves. Lynching town this early in the game is not good for scum. Not when they have a NK they could use without drawing suspicion. They want to get the opposing faction out now. THEN focus on town.

The endgames game had 1 scum team, a member of the scum team being a secret 3rd party survivor, and 2 other third party survivors one of whom was a serial killer role and the other who could switch between 3rd party town or scum.

Scum had no choice but to hunt along with Town to get rid of the SK at the very least. Had someone not been a god damned omniscient being it could have gotten delightfully messy.
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...why does my font have DID?

 

So last night didn’t pan out as planned! Passed out once my buzz wore off so I’ll respond to sloth later today. Kinda skimmed the night/morning posts real quick and Mendel looks decently town for something specific in his last post.
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Not sure how hard I want to rely on that kind of tell though but yeah

 

TerRaine is clearly haunted.

Okay this was a lot to catch up on (I'm likely to post once or twice in the morning and afternoon; evenings are difficult) but it looks like some promising developments are happening! Most of Sloth's posts line up with Just Who He Generally Is As A Person, so it's kind of hard to pull a solid read on him.

I'm still probably sticking with my current vote, curious to see how @Jarizok responds to the general situation when they get back on
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@Sloth As for your question that I almost forgot about regarding Jarizok's partner-- hard telling. Maybe I'm just not reading/rereading enough to pore over notes but it's hard to tell through the current map of interactions.

 

Every time Irene in the Ryce role posted an uncannily on point thought in her obs in regards to roles and even flavor a small mod tantrum was had behind the scenes.
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Unless you mean the weird fucking font possessing my posts in which case...yes this is also annoying/haunting me

 

Yeah I was just... talkin' about font. ;P

 

Yea I'm off today. Some douche waffle decided that 3 am was a superb time and the middle of the street was prime locale to loudly discuss his views on what the republican and democratic parties should be doing this election cycle setting my dogs off to bark and me to be awake and nail spitting furious.

 

[JOKES]
Oompa! Loompa!
Dimpity din!
Here Is How Berrrrrnie
Can Still Win
[/JOKES]

 

Some thoughts on what I missed:

Cerber's #35 backs off on his own read and is quick to dismiss it as not worthwhile, although that I think scans with the overall hedgey tone of his readslist #90 - which also seems like diagonal to the thread state, but I don't think I townread it as much as e.g. tom and Empoof seem to. Overall I think he doesn't care about how he's being seen?

@CerberAsta, you seem to be caught up, so - do you have a question you wante to ask someone in order to try and clarify something from them or figure them out?


tom's #42 seems a bit inconsistent because tom first votes mendel for a spurious method of reading tom himself, then asks mendel how serious he is being in reading me - feel like there's a disconnect, where if mendel's seriousness was already in question to him, it's less founded to place a vote then.

His later posts have felt better, I nodded along to the Cerber read and the apparent process behind that. I don't have meta, but I don't really see him as especially sparkling or lacking sparkle tbh.

@tom any spicy reads you want to share with the class?


For a couple reasons I read through this really wanting to see if I could gotcha Sloth, so maybe I'm predisposed to scumread him (sorry). It felt like a lot of his early posts were shade-driven / empty questions, but I think his later stuff is indicative of a deeper thought process. Like, I didn't really get his turnaround within post #66 on Empoof based on just one post, or why he posted a super confident opener on Terrain and then just gave her a one-liner. But then he talked about seeing her as pocketing/buddying Cerber later on, which I think I could see the gears turning in his head about. I'm not a huge fan of him not seeming to have solid stances or responding to a lot of his questions' answers with a hmm kind of thing.

And I have a guess at a possible process on the Empoof thing, but @Sloth - welcome to the game, could you explain what about P#65 made you think Empoof was townier, what in your early reads list do you think is representative of how you feel about the game? I'd also like to ask what specifically you've gotten out of your questions - you've cast your net, has it caught you fish?


Tammy I believe when she says that her earlygame thing at fluff was a joke (I didn't initially read it as a joke.) If it were serious, I don't see why she wouldn't follow up on it as town, think she'd have to be stone cold to call out a mafia partner like that (Tammy/fluff not w/w?), and if she were posting about someone besides her partner, I'd think she'd maybe follow up on that opportunity to shade more.

I think the seeming frustration in 52 makes her probably not partners with Ter, and the "I don't get what you want from me" attitude in 57 + later follow-up wrt Discord seems not partnery with mendel, as well.

My TerRaine read is intertwined with this one - I think she seems really inquisitive and I enjoyed her pointing out what she noticed about Tammy, and a lot of things wrt her tone and general approach to the thread. I'm not a huge fan of the fact that I'm not sure what she's done with or gotten out of her questions; a lot of it is like, who do you think is a partner of someone you expressed a (possibly joking) scumread of. @TerRaine - what are you getting out of these questions? Can I also ask you why you had

Tammy checking Discord to attempt to corroborate a read in 64 is pretty towny. I agree with Terrain that she seemed quite defensive and I'm not really seeing the townreads of Tammy off her content or tone, but I think she's done some stuff that I think it's harder to think of faking as mafia.

@Tammy - do you townhunt in early game, is there anyone whose lynch you'd strongly oppose? It's been a day-ish since you last said you didn't have many reads, do you have any strong stances now? Also, "my read on fluffy is that he is fluffy." - I agree completely.


mendel I want to think is town. I think I'm going to reread his content tomorrow because a lot of it went out my head, in that a decent amount is about a misunderstanding that was later resolved, or some sort of mechanical leaning, afaict. Some of this read is me sheeping what seems to be thread consensus out of many people who have posted their reads. I TR him based on a bunch of little things - him rereading Tammy in Mafia Universe spec chat seemingly out of curiosity because she did for him, giving advice to Cerber is strictly speaking NAI but I wanna think it's town, various emotional notes that just ring true. I don't townread him for exactly the same reason that others have, I think.


I had good feelings about Empoof's page 1 but on reread it's probably nothing he can't fake as mafia, and I don't really see him peacekeeping or building connections among his town circle. But then I'm buoyed up again by how he phrases his reads in his later posting and overall I think I land on him as town. At #102, I understand having Tammy and maybe mendel as town but don't entirely get the other ones he listed. @Empoof could you walk me through why you think Sloth and Cerber were town?


Jari / fluff / Cobalt I don't have a well-formed opinion on.

I'm kind of unreasonably tilted that the site was down because I had to do this instead of being able to do stuff last night... I kind of feel like I have too many town/unresolved people. Gonna try to sort through all this tonight, really need to get to sleep.
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I think the font thing comes from copy and pasting text in rich editor mode, btw.

 

A fucking headache.

In all seriousness? I know where I am weak as Town and it is my stubbornness and tendency to get fixated on a read and refuse to let it go. Like I said to sloth it has bitten me and other townies in the ass in the long ago past. I get a different perspective to explore...see if there's any shifty behavior in the answers or if I'm not seeing the forest for the trees.

Why I had what?

I think you forgot to finish this sentence which kinda seems like you didn't have a question in mind and you were looking to go back and add it later. That's kinda odd
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....unrelated but when did skittles make the green ones apple and not lime?

 

Honestly it seems difficult to even want to really lynch anyone on day one. Statistically, we have a greater than 50% chance to get a towny. It would seem, regrettably, better to wait until actions come to pass and someone turns up dead (or the watcher gets information, though they obvis wouldn't reveal that detail unless critical so uuuuurrrrrgh there) and we have a better chance?

Inaction can be a problem, though, as it gives the mafias more time to kill and hunt out folks. Ehhhhhh not sure what to ask, but I guess I'll ask what people think generally of scumhunting on day one. It seems difficult to pull off with mafia having the immediate information advantage on that front.

 

I think you might be scum

 

No one is dying N1, so not lynching today is effectively pushing day 1 back to day 2.