The mondo wall posts are interesting, if hard to parse. I know it's a lot of relatively simple sentences but in conjunction with everything else, it's kind of hard to keep track of. Already 240 posts of material to sort through.

Guess I'm gonna kinda sheep (?) Mendel a little bit here, Sloth is definitely keeping his hand close to his chest and is pretty doggedly following some trails-- not sure how that'll work out. Some of his stuff is clearly agitating folks and that may color him as scum. A lot of the arguments boiling around him seem to be regarding his thoroughness with regards to examining other's statements while occasionally throwing out statements that require a bit more context to actually parse (ie "Like empoof for town" seeming to indicate an actual townread rather than "I think Empoof is fun and would like to be able to keep him around" which has become a pretty big hang-up and I don't know is entirely deserved, but Mafia IS a game that requires a lot of scrutiny so IDK).

Looking over the interactions, it's hard for me to tell if he is just being a little off the cuff because he's town and feeling a bit secure on that front or if he just slipped a few times. This rather large amount of attention on him seems counter-intuitive, as it feels like-- if he's scum, he's stayed in the spotlight and has been riling folks up in a way that might get him lynched (AND it might get him targeted by Mafia, esp if any of his guesses are close).

I'm curious how Sloth feels about the picking and if he's planning to be a little bit more deliberate with his following statements. Also curious how he's gonna answer Keldeo's questions about me.

(As far as map of interactions, Mendel, I've not built one. Just loosely there in my head, held up by three year old gum and not really in place. Good idea tho)

@Tammy -- the excitement was genuine, because I did enjoy the couple of social games I've played and it's honestly been a minute since I've played any game with people other than Magic lol. I do understand the concerns, though! I was working with the math of 11 people, 4 scum and came up with the greater than 50% chance to get a towny, but given Bulletproof, Day2 is really gonna be exactly the same and it'd be better to get an idea of what's going on by changing things up. Kinda nervous about what's gonna happen going forward considering that mistake really painted me poorly.

 

Vote Count 1.3
Tom (3): Tammy, Mendel, Keldeo
Jarizok (2): Cobalt, CerberAsta
CerberAsta (1): His Fluffiness
His Fluffiness (1): Jarizok
Keldeo (1): Empoof
TerRaine (1): Sloth

Not Voting (2): TerRaine, Tom

With 11 alive, it is 6 to soft lynch, 9 to hard lynch.

 

That didn’t paint you poorly at all cerber. It’s a really common suggestion from people early on. Thing is even without night one bp. It’s still better to lynch day one even though we’re going to be wrong the majority of the time because it gives you something to work with. It’s great when the lynch is correct, but it’s a super rare game that all the lynched are on scum.

there are theories on the day one lynch that you just really need a good if not correct lynch. I’m trying to live by this theory now because it’s stressful trying to get the correct lynch when you don’t know anything.

 

If there is a lynch, it's possible to get scum to show their hand as they'll need to do something as a team if one of their own gets lynched. If you agree on no lynch, well then scum can just keep lying low, and town is no wiser.

The fact that town can't be killed N1 makes it possible to wait for day 2, and hope that one of the scum teams manages to land a shot on the other scum, because then we can actually go looking for their partner with information. It means that we could improve a 7:4 D1 to a 7:3 D2 instead of a 6:3 D2. So this "D2 is going to be exactly the same" is actually an uninformed argument:

@CerberAsta , can you recall the train of thought that led you to this take?

While sloth was writing his big #66 wall, that listed Empoof as "too legitimately friendly and that makes me suspicious", Empoof posted this weird thing, and sloth added "Heh. I like Empoof for town." Then Keldeo goes,

, aka wondering why sloth felt the need to tack this assessment on. And sloth's explanation doesn't really make that much sense in this context:

Like, sloth has already read Empoof as "too friendly", I see no "transparency in rebuking tom's comments" in that post at all (it didn't make anything transparent to me, anyway), and it doesn't explain why this post makes sloth want to amend "legitimately suspicious" to "like Empoof for town", because that's not the same sentiment.
Sloth is evading the question with his aggressive reaction instead of explaining what he thought, which jibes badly with his "ask me questions" that he opened with, and makes me think he is actively looking for fights instead of cooperation.

tl;dr it doesn't actually matter what sloth meant by "llike Empoof for town", what matters is why he added that based on #65, and he explained that poorly and somewhat confrontationally.
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vote sloth

might as well see who's onboard with this

 

Damn i slept through being top wagon.
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Real talk im not seeing this manipulative/serial killer vibe people seem to be getting from sloth.

But i still think shit dont add up.

Vote sloth
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This site needs a shrug emote
is adorable but its not a shrug

 

You were still shared top wagon before you voted sloth. Dint miss a thing. You ruined it for me though.

 

Ehhh @Mendel My gut based on the understanding of mafia was that scum would, by virtue of having slightly more info, want to get the ball rolling and try to start pressing on someone outside of their team since anyone else dead would make their position stronger. Honestly, totally gonna revoke that claim because it was based on pretty obvious green-ness. Not saying I'm much better at this juncture.

Somehow feel less sure of most folks now more than ever. I'll need to reread the whole thread once or twice but doubt I have time to do so before end of Day One.

@ Jarizok what did Tom ruin for you, exactly? Voting Sloth or Voting Tom? Or just having top vote?

 

We were top wagon together and now neither of us is.

If you had to pick 6 townies out of the bunch right now, who would they be?
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What does all this say about Keldeo IYO?
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?
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Really dislike this post.
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The swamp will be here waiting for you, muckier than ever!
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Spoiler

This stuff feels pretty damn genuine. The meandering train of thought, one point tying back to the other, fluid reads yet not waffly. If Keldeo is scum here I applaud him for his tone.
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Eh, Im with tom. Cerber's reads in his reads post make sense to me individually.
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Kinda harsh. Making reads on genuineness/tone is how a lot of people play the game, myself included, because it IS alignment indicative in a lot of cases imo. Being (mostly) genuine in life is the standard for the vast majority of people, and being scum gets people out of their comfort zone in that regard and it's noticeable in a lot of scum players.

 

Coming up on the 24-hour Mark, might as well try something on fit size and get some competing wagons going

Vote: his fluffiness
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I’m sorry

 

Dont really like Empoof rn. His ISO is really shallow but he's projecting that's it not.
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Do you feel that Empoof is at a natural degree of confidence on his read of you?
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eyyy, 250 blaze it.

 

This is fun, doing a readthrough and then see what quotes I have tagged

What is Sloth like, generally, as a person? @CerberAsta

Keldeo keeping digging at this, I like it

I think it says Keldeo has an apparently towny thought process, but he's also a very good wolf, so I'd have to see what he actually does to read him.

Why?
I'm very aware how much time I spend on this mafia vs how much time I'd like to spend, so if me having less thread presence leads to someone's read of me flipping without anything substantial to point at, I'm going to assume causation.

In related news, after nightfall you ought to look up the reveal on this thread https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/threads/23929-September-Paint-Drabble-(Signup-Thread) , it's turned out really nice.

 

What do you make of people's reads on you rn?

 

The last game we played together, he town read me pretty hard after a pageone discussion of breakfast foods. We were both town. So, yeah I could see him townreading me from what I’ve done here. Even if he’s scum, he’d still not know, do I don’t feel a sense of TMI there. As far as my read in him goes it’s basically the same that I want him to be town because I like him as a player but I don’t think I have actual solid reasons for that right now.
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Is there a way to add a link to a post number?
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166​

 

You're just assuming someone thinks X and explain it away rather than asking them why they think it. You seem more concerned with people townreading you and staying that way than you are in getting reads on them. You said Keldeo has townie thought processes just now but I reckon any read this early can use strengthening and it doesn't like you were in the middle of anything else at the time either.

 

Keldeo - regarding where some of what Mendel has said is similar to my thoughts/what I’ve said or was going to say, when I read post 166 Willy Wonka's Chocolate Factory Mafia

I was like wait that sounds very similar to what I said and had to go back to see that my post 202 Willy Wonka's Chocolate Factory Mafia actually came after his post.

Although my post 136 here was earlier than both posts and basically lays out where my thoughts were: Willy Wonka's Chocolate Factory Mafia

So we enter the dangerous position of hey this guy said something very similar to me which means we’re on a similar waveLength so he’s town territory. That kind of thinking has bitten people in the ass, and so I’m at did we have a very similar thought process and wording, and he is therefore town, which is much less meaningful when scum only know one other persons alignment too, so it could be genuine regardless - I don’t *think* it looks like scum theater, or is he a dastardly genius manipulator who picked up on my 136 and mirrored what my explanation would be?
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Fluffy - what’s your read on Tom this game?
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I keep forgetting cobalt exists.
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Fluffy’s case against cerber isn’t bad. The contradictions he points out are definitely there. He’s not making stuff up to make him look bad. But if we weren’t in multiball I’d probably think it was a less than genuine case because it’s just based on pointing out contradictions which reads to me a bit superficial.

Even if fluff’s case were right, I don’t have it in me to lynch someone in their first day of their first game. Too often newb tells look like scum tells because they’re just trying to figure shit out in a complicated game. I’m not interested in turning people off from a game.
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I keep forgetting cobalt exists.

Can you explain the town reads a little more?
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Jarizok - why did you only ask fluff for a read of the new people plus sloth?

 

@Jarizok I meant that Sloth's clearly agitating folks and that agitation may color their perception of him as scum.

@Mendel Sloth is someone who thinks pretty heavily but can seem pretty off the wall-- making him appear something of a contradiction. (Love you, Sloth.)

If I had to try and pin 6 other folk for town.......... hm. No particular order. I might try to order it later.

Sloth
Keldeo
Tom
Tammy
Jarizok
Mendel

I'll try to explain later, but it largely boils down to who is doing the most work in terms of genuine scumhunting without trying tactics that seem weird to me. (Fluffiness targeting me for early bad plays seems weird. Some of Ter's discussions have seemed a little off in a way I can't explain. Cobalt kinda dropped off and had like three days where they only posted one line, if anything. LOT of gut feelings still, not concrete evidence. IDK)

 

Jesus, you bastards write a lot…

I guess we’ll start here.
So. I keep seeing this pop up in your posts, so I just want to address this part briefly: I…don’t look down on you. Clearly, it’s bothering you, and I apologize for that. I honestly don’t know where the idea comes from – given what you say in this and other posts, I can guess, but that doesn’t really matter. I’ll watch how I word things, but I do promise you that nothing of what I said was meant as an attack, just an analysis of your play, same as everyone else. I hope we can start over with that in mind.

Ok so you ask me how #194 answers you problems, and this the post where you voiced them:

I mean honestly, you don’t ask me any real, direct questions here.
In essence, this post is divided into two streams of consciousness entries: The first half is you questioning what I’m doing, claiming my questions are busy work, and that I passed up opportunities you may have seized – with examples being the empoof/you meta exchange. This is why I told you to look at #294: That is the fruit of my questions.
Not all of my questions have a point, some are intentionally random. I don’t follow up on everything either, because that’s not always what I want to do, specially when I see something else that draws my attention. I discard a lot, and put threads aside to pick back up if I feel it necessary at a later date.
The meta talk was one of such questions: I rarely follow up on meta or am actually interested in it – I was mostly curious about empoof answering. Same reason I wouldn’t read other people’s games: I’d rather form my own profiles than do that level of legwork.
In addition, just because you see something that you feel I should have followed up on, doesn’t mean I saw it, or if I did, that I agreed.
Second half is essentially asking what I gain from putting you on the spot to answer questions, and also the blunt thing? For the putting on the spot, reread what I just wrote, and that’s pretty much it. Plus, as mentioned before, you never know what someone might slip out in a random question.
I’m honestly not sure what’s confusing about the blunt thing. You said Tom didn’t have his sparkle and this made you nervous, which I took to mean was in reference to his gruff/blunt personality and that it didn’t seem town, and I asked why you felt that didn’t seem town. That’s…pretty much it. I can’t explain it any clearer.
Btw, a lot of your ideas about looking busy and not really scumhunting: We can talk about the dynamics of multiball all Day, but I’m pretty sure this game requires all of us to actively scumhunt. “Looking busy” and not hunting wouldn’t help my wincon regardless of role.

I’ll also briefly address this for everyone: #66 was my second post in the game, having freshly subbed in. I didn’t really have strong reads beyond Ter (and her only because I’ve known her so long), so I just tossed in a bunch of kneejerk reactions, which I then posted.
Right as I did that, he ninja’d me with that post where, from my understanding, he corrected tom in thinking he’s town by providing examples where that wasn’t true, and being funny while doing it. Given what I just written about him, that struck me as funny and I posted that I’d like him for town, which I did, big laugh, clap clap, move on – oh except we didn’t and it was seen as some sort of slip by me. C’est la vie.

pfft. No you don’t. Trust me.
Good luck with your grading!

Hm...
@CerberAsta Address this. Are you still catching up? You’ve being called out.

Hm…I mean, your reasoning why he should be down strike me as more subjective.
I get that you think he should be, but the reason I asked is that I don’t see what makes my reading of him so much more significantly different, especially from a player that, at that point in the game, had been inoffensive save for a comment that was NAI that I just didn’t like.
Don’t let my opinion affect how you see him based on my reads though!

I’m not sure I follow this, what is it I wouldn’t know?

So what reads of mine are fake? That is a hugely general statement.
(Assuming that this is more than just about #66)

Please explain why?

Okay, let’s stop here for a second: Point to me the exact post where I said genuineness is alignment indicative or a townread.
(For the record: <redacted until answered.>)

Nah bro.

Ok this seems to be your only “real” reason for the vote (I don’t count my townread), and it’s pretty weak.
Given that, and that in you even preemptively sort of excuse yourself from putting your foot down about him by saying you don’t even think he’s mafia (paraphrase), why vote for him at all?
What I mean is: I saw you short breakdown list at the end, and a lot of it feels like it should be explained further as to why some of those people don’t ping further (given that there are no cases.)

PING!
This is a reminder for me to look into this later after Asta’s addressed points himself.

I address this above. Short answer is, yes, misinterpreted poor wording. Nothing I can do about it to convince people though, so take that as you will.

...er, bussing, as I remember it, means that he's trying to make me look bad without actually committing to it by voting me, right?
Please say yes?

She talked for Asta AND buddied him. Two different things. Read again.

How was this misconstrued? As much as this one comment caused confusion, pretty sure everyone was on the same page on what was said and what was asked, even if they don’t agree or believe.

Correct!
I play by creating profiles. Though I do so as Town or Scum. I guess you can ask Ter and Fluff if you’re the sort of player that goes by meta – but it’s just how I work. I’m a LMSW in real life.
Still, seriously, please dial it back with “petty fights”? Starting to feel a little personal and I really don’t see where I’ve done that. Trivia? Eh, debatable.

Swear to god, I’m not agitating anyone on purpose XD

How do you mean the picking? People fixating on the Empoof thing? Eh, I guess I’m a little annoyed, but nothing I can do about it. Regardless of what happens, eventually my reads will be listened to: That’s the beauty of the game.
I want you to answer Keldeo about you actually.


Will be back shortly…

 

OK, can you please explain what you meant by that? @Sloth
Why did you say that, what is it referencing, who is wrecking what and why is it inevitable, or isn't it?

I think the discussion shows that different people have different expectations of what a scum agenda could be, and I believe we'd profit by NOT having a consensus on what scum is going to do, because then scum will simply not do it.

Common theme of this post is going to be how much I like your thought processes, btw, and that meanwhile you've become my "ride or die" town up to the point where we can't find the fourth wolf.
I'm confident in your ability, too.

My reasoning is, she thinks like I do, therefore she thinks like a townie. Nothing's perfect, but it's good enough for me, for now.

Ok, I read Keldeo as specifically stating he doesn't know why his read changed, so a) it'd be rude to push him on that, and b) I expect him to keep thinking about it, which is why c) I am offering a potential explanation. I mean, Keldeo looks town to me (minus whatever deepwolf paranoia I have based on his Wildcard performance), so it is important to me that we townread each other, because that squeezes scum into a corner. I am concerned that he townreads me!
Having a town core is important.

I wish I was a dastardly genius manipulator, but I'm a long way from having the experience and insight of Lexicat/Lady Lambdadelta. The last time I mindmelded with a guy was my qualifier, and there I was town and Dendrek was the scum, and there were signs Day 1 when I actually had him at scum lean initially, and other signs later that I could have spotted.
So I absolutely get your paranoia, but I'm also hoping it doesn't prevent us working together.

And that's another thing I was goiung to say, and then you said it first. I recently played mafia on another site where we discussed this early on, and they had this deal where you don't lynch/nightkill a newb (or the latest host) day 1, because that just sucks the fun out of it. We have 4 scum to find, if we exclude CerberAsta, we should still be able to have a good shot at it even if Asta is not town.

I don't have a clear idea of what "off the wall" means, could you please elaborate?

 

Huh. Interesting angle. Not sure what to make of this yet, but I like the reasoning.
Can you point me to your case on fluff? Is it just that he posted a wall, which is "unlike him" as you mentioned earlier?

Aw, love you too, buddy.

The long and short of it is: Not really surprised.
My way of playing tends to come across as really scummy to people no matter what, and whenever I play with people that haven't played with me before, I'm usually the first one to go - I remember my very first game in DLP, which was my first game of mafia period. I was immediately bandwagoned and lynched D1 because people didn't like how I moved about lol.
I don't really care: By next game, people will know what that's just kind of how I play and will learn from it.


Still: With little over 24 hours to go, we really should start consolidating.
@Eidolonic VC, please?

@Jarizok what's your read on TerRaine?
Also, I think you're come.
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This was in response to Ter posting while drunk, I thought it'd be funny and a fun show. You can pick that up from context by reading our back and forth at the time.
Good rule of thumb: Never leave Ter and I alone. We'll make people cry and then go skydiving or something. @TerRaine yes, I said skydiving, btw, where are you?

@Cobalt bump.
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...I...
...scum*
Also, I think youre....scum.*
Ugh.
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...Alright, bussing is not what I remembered it being. I see the confusion now. Goddamnit.
I meant what I said to Keldeo in #257, not bussing. Sorry.

 

I read again, you said "it doesn't" (make a difference, I presume).
And we talked about that buddying implies two scum (you seem to be acknowledging in 140); scum doing it to town is pocketing.

And then that "talking for" was actually explained to you in 81: "Because I was the person he was saying you are correct to", referring to #34 CerberAsta, #35 TerRaine, #38 Jarizok wondering about 34, #41 TerRaine clarifying.

Your aim doesn't appear to be understanding, it seems to be provocation, without looking aggressive.

Keldeo wanted to know why your evaluation on Empoof changed from "suspicious" to "like as town" based on #65, and your reply says "you misread me, there is no change". But there clearly was! "too legitimately friendly and that makes me suspicious" and "like Empoof for town" does not say the same thing, and rather than explain it, you push the narrative that nothing changed.
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EBWOP "you misread me, there is no change" is not a direct quote, but a paraphrase