Vote Sloth

Having only skimmed this page (251-), I think he's the most appealing of the top wagons rn.

We need 6 votes to actually lynch someone, right? Not sure what to make of the fact that no one's gotten beyond 3 so far, besides general lack of consensus.
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I think Tammy is even more Just Town Here given her posts these last two pages. I'm pretty happy with this read.

 

@Empoof Have you wolfed with Sloth before? Have you seen his wolf game?

I superficially looked at Keldeo, and he's talked about more than he actually posts (only 7 posts in total!); the pattern of checking in once per day (except Wednesday) and making a big catchup post loosely matches what I recall of his finale. I haven't dug into his posts, but it was surprising to me that him being in so many conversations is based on so few posts of his.
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Ok, that was weird.

 

Like a time traveling Beetlejuice? Haha.

I was gonna say I've definitely posted more than that but I actually had at the time you made that. I think it's because automerge makes what would usually be like a stream of 10-20 posts into one because no one else was posting when I was here last night.
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I mean, kind of? It was more me looking back at the reason for the read and being like "huh, actually some of these reasons don't ring so true looking back on them (and also I don't remember anything he's said lately because he hasn't been here)"
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Does this not really make sense, or am I being bad at words?

Like, here Cerber admits he sees why fluff SRs him, now that Sloth pointed out that his post about the no lynch was scummy. But fluff's case didn't actually have anything to do with that post of Cerber's.
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I mean I guess that sort of sleight-of-hand concession with misrepresenting a case is actually a bit towny if Cerber goes into the "reasonable, optics-focused mafia" pile, but from what I've seen so far he'd fit "low-commitment, low-content mafia" better.
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idk I don't see a lot of this though. I am not really the best at recognizing abrasiveness, but I don't really see Sloth as having been overly antagonistic or petty? And the personality reads and the vocabulary thing just feel NAI to me.

I think sticking onto the "gun to head" point is towny. Like a dog with a bone.
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Reading further I think perception of tone is a major part of what seems to be the disagreement between my and mendel's thoughts on Sloth.

This, for example, doesn't read as aggressive to me - a neutral sharp and to the point, maybe, with bold italics for emphasis. It actually reminds me of how I type sometimes.
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Mendel quoting his own post in 244 and following up with Cerber is also pretty towny, btw. This read is adding up a lot of micro things.
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tom's posts these few pages are like... nothings, just hanging around, which I guess is understandable if he was busy?

Hope whatever you were coming back from was enjoyable.
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@CerberAsta, what motivated you to ask this question rather than about something else recent? I'm having a bit of trouble seeing what you would gain from Jari's response - it seemed basically a joke.
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MondoOowadaSweating.png

This is so many words without actually ever expressing a concrete opinion of Sloth? It's a lot of summarizing what others have said and how it may be interpreted.

Well, there goes him not caring about optics, which was I thought a decent thought pulling me toward him town.
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Cerber's either the Bijou or the Juri of this game, and I think at this point I'm leaning toward Juri.

Vote CerberAsta

(Bijou and Juri were two people in a recent game I was in. Bijou's posts were hedgy and at one point he said outright that he was concerned about looking bad, but eventually I found him as town. Juri I lightly townread for posting some reads while seeming not to care at all about her appearance, but she ended up being mafia. So if I'm right, I'm maybe getting better at reading that type of player.)
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Mmm I'm not sure I like my wagon partner though. And call me soft but I also don't want to lynch someone on their first day of mafia ever.
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Someone please post so that this wallpost isn't an unreadable mess

 

Post

 

Sorry, what is this apology for?
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<3

 

Hmm this post doesn’t read the way I’ve been thinking on it about, but I want to think about it more and if there’s anything to why I’ve been stuck on it when I get back from appts this morning
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I felt bad voting fluffy.

 

I don't feel like I got a lot out of Jari's posting in the late 240s.

Actually, I really don't think he's with Tammy or Empoof off of that question to Tammy about Empoof that sort of indirectly leads Tammy to sus of Empoof while probing into Tammy. I think he would want to claim more credit there or maybe not even ask that question if he were attempting to bus, and I think Tammy is town and also he doesn't need to lead his partner to a read, like that.

@Jarizok, it feels like some of your reads are applying similar reasons to a single-mafia team game when they don't really fit, e.g. your question to Tammy about Empoof's level of confidence, which doesn't really apply because the mafia in this game don't have perfect TMI. How is the calculus of multiball changing how you approach making reads?

 

Honestly gonna change my vote. I reread fluff's asta case post and it... was real weak. Most of my early posts were casual interactions as I tried to figure out the game and one off the cuff analysis that I emphasized was fairly based more on gut than concrete reasoning. Quite a few folks tagged me, a noob, for D1 NL, but fluff suggested we shouldn't talk optimal scum strat with regards to a discussion of multiball. That it wasn't brought up otherwise and MOST of fluff's posts have been single sentences, I'm getting scum vibes.

@Keldeo the nervousness was related directly to being day 1 lynched in my first mafia game, yes. and I asked that question because I was fairly behind but just trying to ask questions because like 4 people have prompted me to do so.

I understand why you might vote me under these circumstances. As for me?

VOTE FLUFFINESS

 

I feel like I have done a decent amount by now. Could you talk about what specifically you think is towny from me? I don't think you have elaborated on this one.
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Hmm.

How much of this read would you say was influenced by other people's reads on fluff?

Do you think it's more likely that fluff would try to shut down discussion of optimal mafia strategy in the way he did were he mafia? I'm not really sure on this one myself.
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Maybe, to borrow a term, cautionless, but I want to say that fluff is never with Cerber not just for his case but also for that vote

 

Don’t have much time right but optics, especially with a new player, probably isn’t the best metric. Regardless of his alignment he’ll be nervous. My first few games I was nervous as hell as both alignments. Optical caring is very often a function of personality.

I just really am opposed to lynching a new player day one regardless.

Gotta head out, will get back to others later.

 

I respect and agree with that take.

unvote

Some postgame cred if right, no shame if wrong: exactly one mafia in Cerber and fluff?
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"That take" meaning not wanting to string someone up on their first day, mostly. I agree optics is a function of personality but I also think it's not impossible to read new players off of their tone.

 

I mean yea obviously? I never said anything about hunting and killing town.

as for the prickly Raine. I meant the earlier posts. Specifically like empoof said with the shading people.

I prefer engaging in subterfuge then trying to figure out if people are lying to me. I don't like second guessing myself which you have to do a lot more as Town. Its more fun to trick than be tricked.

After some sleep feel a little more confident placing my vote

Vote his fluffiness

 

It felt like the right vote on a gut level, but I wasn't entirely sure and got to second guessing myself in the moment.

Not really sure what you want from me re: pinging further? If I see something that makes me think someone's suspicious , I'll note it in the thread. If I haven't said anything, then either I forgot or I haven't seen anything that really moved the needle.

@Sloth - I'd like to see you do this now that Cerber's posted.

Oh, that makes a lot more sense. I've never heard the word bussing used that way, the term I'd use for what you're talking about is probably shading, or just like... "trying to make me look bad without actually committing."

What's your current read on mendel? Given your protracted conversations, I don't think he's avoided culpability or commitment for a push on you at all.
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Big mendmeld here.
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@Mendel, what do you think of Empoof?
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Technically this is NAI but it makes me really believe that mendel believes his Sloth read. In this setup that's mostly NAI too but I'm gonna townread it anyway.
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Okay, I actually like Sloth's 257 and 259 for... probably also a bad reason.

The way he interwove a few responses and questions to people with his self-defense felt pretty genuine and agendaless. It'd be one thing if he just dug in his heels defending himself and did nothing else, but he asked a couple of things without really making a spectacle of the asking.
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What are your thoughts on Cerber and Ter voting for fluff just now?
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mendel, when you get the chance can you take a look at my thoughts on your read of Sloth's emotion? Looking harder at it and at his posts I don't really feel persuaded by it, and I think it and some of why I scumread him earlier might just be the way he talks, so... nothing really concrete there.

Our reads are eerily similar. Do you have any thoughts on Jari, and also are you going to do that reread of Ter?


Sloth, could I ask you to enumerate some of your other reads more concretely/compactly? Even though you addressed other people a bit you've mostly been defending yourself recently.
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This word choice is a bit Fry Squinting like, openwolfing via an injoke that no one in this game understands, or something.

I looked up the thing I was thinking of, though, and I'm probably reading too much into it.

Could I ask you to talk a bit about your read on me / my recent content?

Also, why did you think tom was town earlier?
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Spoiler

Thank you! I think it went alright, but of course I won't know for sure until it's graded :s

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This is good stuff, and by and large I agree. Of your "not with" reads, don't super get: fluff/Cobalt (just don't see why that couldn't have come from a partner), Sloth/tom (I thought tom had like a wild wolf range or something)

I had notes about this but idr where I put them. if I remember I'll talk about any that I haven't mentioned already - not my first priority with no flip and the numbers where they are, though, because there are like 43 not w/w pairs right now.
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Are these quotes showing up as split in two for everyone else? That's happened like three times now and it's kind of annoying

 

No, you have talked a decent amount. Doing means voting, or possibly watching.
You only need to follow the context of the quote back: I think that looking for a reason for your observation (and having the thought that there was a cause and effct in the first place), and going at it from an "I want to solve this" mindset, is towny.
I expect I could find more, but I don't have time right now.
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Umm, that's how I understood this:

You seem to say that town hunting only makes sense if your win condition is to kill town.
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Town lean, based on gut read, not done an ISO yet.

 

No, I think it's a quite exposing thing to say about your partner so early, especially given that Tammy phrased it in a way where multiple people didn't interpret it as a joke. I think if she were joking about it to distance, she might have wanted to tone it down, make it less revealing about fluff's specific motivations. I didn't get the joke, so I can't really say.

I haven't read either you or Sloth as super prickly or "asshole-ish". wrt the specific read you quote here, what Sloth was posting was like "I noticed you stopped pressing her though. Change of mind?" / "why did you answer for him? It's not like it was particularly relevant or pressing - and you weren't asked", which seem to be asked less to learn than to cast doubt. You were more straightforward about your thoughts.

I'm not posting just to post. I ask people what they're getting out of what they do because I want to know, especially when they don't answer or answer in a way that I still don't understand.

Could you walk me through your progression on Tammy from the early game to now?
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Oh, I misinterpreted what you meant by "doing" in your post.
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Not today: Tammy, mendel
Decent: Empoof, fluff via Cerber
Big ehh but I am fine with not going for this today: Cerber
Uhh maybe town: Sloth, TerRaine (need to reread that wall)
Various shades of idk to bleh: Cobalt, Jari, tom

I'm fading and gonna head to bed. I feel a bit better about this.

 

I posted on Terraine in #279. Jarizok is still in the LHF pile for me.

If you had given me a post to look at, I would have, but I'm on the tablet and pressed for time.

 

Unofficial VC

His Fluffiness (4): Jarizok, Tammy, CerberAsta, TerRaine
Sloth (2): Mendel, Tom
CerberAsta (1): His Fluffiness
Jarizok (1): Cobalt
Keldeo (1): Empoof
TerRaine (1): Sloth

Not voting: Keldeo

 

@Keldeo Fluff saying not to discuss optimal mafia strat was weird when I first read it, but I didn't know enough about the game to question and assumed that was just veteran talk. When others noticed, my gut feeling was confirmed that it's weird. And again, his pinging me for "9 posts, only 1 of substance" when he'd hardly done any better felt *weird* to me.

 

Mmm. Not the biggest fan of either of these two top wagons. Maybe being unreasonably suspicious of the movement onto fluff but it's kind of making me think he flips town here.

I don't think people are gonna go for tom or Cobalt, and I don't reeeeally wanna vote either Jari or Sloth

 

Vote Jarizok

for now...?
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Noted, thank you two for answering.

Do you have thoughts on anyone that you haven't shared, Cerber?

I guess I don't see hypocrisy as necessarily scummy and don't have any meta basis on fluff, so I've not been overly swayed there