Jarizok (3): Keldeo, His Fluffiness, CerberAsta
Vaimes (2): Tom, Mendel
TerRaine (2): Jarizok, Vaimes
CerberAsta (1): TerRaine

Not Voting (2): Empoof, Tammy

I think I'm okay staying here.

Notes from compiling wagon movement:

Cerber voted Jarizok up to 4 in pretty quick succession with Vaimes and Fluff. If I'm right then he has no allies. I think I would like to be more with people like Mendel and Tammy, though, would like more thoughts from them on my thoughts.

It is interesting I guess but don't know if it means anything that Jari and Vaimes avoided crossvoting. Although Jari wasn't really a wagon when he voted and Vaimes was on Jari but then swapped to Ter.
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Ah, gotcha, thanks.

Asked you a few things on your early reads, and asked the thread at large about your meta... would you say you're an easy read for people who know you?

Will probably have more questions for you after I sleep and go over the rest of your content.

 

It only means something if one were to think we’re scum together. But I think tom and Mendel are pushing that I’m Sloth’s partner, so.

It’s not like I’m avoiding voting Jarizok. He didn’t really have many posts at game start, and Ter’s thing jumped out at me and pretty much took over my whole worldview. Plus lunching Jarizok is such a meme here that half the time we play together I barely have a read on him.

As for meta, I’ve definitely improved my scumgame, but it heavily depends on my teammates. Enthusiastic/fun team = enthusiastic scum!Vaimes. When my team crumbles or I feel PoE’d out, I very noticeably start actively lurking. Which is another reason tom is scum (unless he’s pushing me for scum team #2 but I don’t think he is). He knows better.

 

It's weird enough adapting to metas in games I actually know something about, but trying to sort through Mafia Meta is like first discovering astrology.
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Although TerRaine is technically tied with Vaimes, I might switch my vote there depending on how the wagons roll. Jari hasn't been super active and Vaimes + Fluff have both been weirdly prickly in a way that seems more interested in shutting down discussion than progressing it in a meaningful way (esp considering the question directed at fluff he decided to be a jerk about could have helped him clear). Fluff is probably higher than Jari for me, but his wagon's not even a blip right now and I'm not really confident enough to try and put together an argument to get it going.
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Urgh just realized I'm currently on a wagon that Fluff is pushing and given my reads I should honestly follow that logic to its conclusion, especially since my towncore rn is Tom/Mendel/Tammy (and Tammy hasn't voted yet).

UNVOTE JARIZOK
VOTE VAIMES

 

What? How have I been trying to shut anything down?
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And how has fluff, for that matter?

 

this right here has been on my mind. Gemma and j talked about this us ibevif the past few games played here as a way to determine vaimes ’ alignment so general thought would be not sloths partner. I’m not sure how coming in as a replacement and having some energy to start the game would look. I’d imagine whatever well of starting energy he had would deplete quickly.

Anyway I passed out when I got home last night sorry! I haven’t read thus mornings posts except a quick skim then saw this and it was exactly what UCB fad in my mind and thinking about, but my reads and thoughts about the game feel like I lost a silly string fight with myself, so I’m gonna do a kinda top dome reads/thoughts experiment to see if I can index my brain here in a minute.

I’ll be here on and off all day until deadline
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I hate phone posting. I don’t know why I try.

 

Hi Tammy <3

 

Being bristly and calling questions stupid shuts down discussion. This is mafia-- every question leads somewhere. Even if it's not useful now, it could be useful in time, when we have more information. Refusing to answer questions outright is a little suspicious honestly, and attacking TerRaine and her questions is moreso.

 

Vote Count 2.2 (as of #763)
Vaimes (3): Tom, Mendel, CerberAsta
Jarizok (2): Keldeo, His Fluffiness
TerRaine (2): Jarizok, Vaimes
CerberAsta (1): TerRaine

Not Voting (2): Empoof, Tammy
Note: If your vote is not listed, please repeat it in the appropriate VOTE format.

With 10 alive, it's 6 to soft lynch, 8 to hard lynch.

Day Ends in less than 10 hours!

 

Okay, I disagree a little bit, probably because I’m used to it. Attacks are part of the game, you need thicker skin than to complain that someone calling your question dumb is the be-all-end-all sin.

Why are you lumping me in with that?
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Like if anything, Ter is shutting down discussion by shutting herself down. There’s nothing stopping her from asking something else, or pushing fluff if she thinks he’s scum trying to silence her.

 

Hi Vaimes!

Cerber - I'm one of those frustrating players that don't really use their vote all that much. (I don't recommend the practice though!)

I am more likely to vote Jarizok if it comes down to a jarizok/vaimes split today because jarizok fits as sloth's partner or on team two. And quite frankly I don't care as much about GOTTA HIT TEAM ONE. Yes, I get the logic; it'd be nice, just been in too many games where it ended up hurting more than it helped that it's just not my end all be all. Maybe we'll get it right and it will be one of those lucky games, but it's just too often not.

Anyway, I don't know what to think about Jari and Jari is widely scumread when he's town, but like I don't have any hope that Jari's alignment is going to become any more clear. So when I think about the rest of the people in the game that I have positive feelings about, I'm left with a few that haven't sparked any great feelings Jari just ends up being in the muck of people that fit as scum literally anywhere. So Jari's posts fit for scum and even if they're not, I don't have faith it'll get better. Which makes me feel kinda like a bitch actually, so I'm sorry if that sounded mean I didn't mean it to be!

Vaimes pre-cobalt looked a lot like a Sloth partner, Sloth had him on the scummier-side of null, and quite frankly from what he said probably should have had him down further, as he notes in one of his only posts hat he seemed self-conscious about being seen as a lurker, which is from the little things we have to go on a decent enough start for an actual scum read. I like Vaime's energy, but I'm not completely sure what to make of it because I'm not exactly sure how the replacement energy would look even if he's on Sloth's team. What he says about his meta and dependence on teammates is true, but would he have enough energy to make it through one day by himself? Maybe, maybe not. I'm not sure how well to read that. I do think that if he is scum, on team one, his energy will most likely start to peter out come tomorrow. Team two depends, but I definitely would expect fizzle.

I guess my thought here is a) he's a replacement that came in midday two and I have a big problem with lynching replacements who replace in late in the day, and b) he's more likely to make his alignment known than Jari is.

As far as his actual posts, it's too early for me to tell. He's kinda brought in a sort of bust up the game energy that I can't quite slot yet. I don't know how much of my cobalt suspicion I'm still carrying around with me into looking at Vaimes because I was getting pretty convinced that Cobalt was just scum and there are no coffee beans to erase the past scent. I don't think the way he attacked the Terraine question was especially scummy. Some questions are dumb. I've built my mafia career on a heap of dumb questions and been told they're dumb by town and scum alike.

Anyway, it's too early for me to think I have a bead on Vaimes, but I'd go Jari before Vaimes today.
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Thank you for responding to my question about this post. I'm not responding to your answer because it cuts out your original post which was the source of my question. So, the reason why I asked was that I wanted your whole thought on there because they way I read it sounded like there was some surprise that the three of you were alive, so there was a little part of me that was wondering if your thought there was so.... (we weren't shot).
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So Cerber is Cerber and I don't know what to make of him. I've just been kinda sticking him in his own world in my head and hoping that i wouldn't have to actually figure him out on his own because I just suck at reading new people a lot of the time. He's feeling his way around the game like I would expect a new player to. And my thought that he seems more confident today isn't a steep curve. I'm not trying to say he sounds way more confident, like he's experience or anything, just feels a bit more surefooted than I would expect him to be if Sloth were his partner. (I guess Sloth could have left him a heap of advice but it feels less likely.) As far as if he's on team two? Don't know. Kinda want to keep him in his own world until my feelings on other people force me to or I'm dead.
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Fluffy is another player that's fluffy. The derp tell that Mendel pointed out I think is a good one. I kinda wish it was made on day two before he would have had a night phase to discuss the night kill with his partner, but when I was asking questions about why people were assuming that mafia would have died, he did respond to me with the same type of assumption that I had about the night kills. So if he's scum, he could be scum with Tom since Tom also thought the same thing. Which would be hilarious because today people are going through all the thoughts of what scum team B would have done with trying to take out team A, and team B just didn't know they could kill the opposing team and shot at random. It doesn't feel like that? Tom is Fluffy's top town read, and he's treating him like a top town read and asking for his reads and the like. Which doesn't negate them as partners; I'm just not sure that that's fluffy's scum game.

When I voted fluffy yesterday, I wanted to see if adding to that wagon would make it build as well as see how Jarizok would react to see if that read was an actual real one. Jari didn't read to it even though I voted while he was around, but I'm not really sure that Jari would react or what that reaction would tell me, so eh. But then Cerber and Terraine voted him also during a time of the tide turning towards Sloth, but I don't think that either of them seem exceptionally partnery with Sloth.

I don't *think* I think he's scum though but it's based off of nothing really. He just feels like fluffy and he's hard to get an actual read on him. I do think that players that aren't that active can be read, but it takes time to learn how they specifically interact with the thread through each alignment and I don't have that with fluff. One of the last times we played together he was scum, and I remember feeling something off about him though I didn't really have a read, but I don't feel that this game. Multiball might make that a little harder to feel about but eh.

 

What is Ter’s fluff read, anyway?

I’ll check myself in ~forty minutes if no one gives it to me. :v

 

If Mendel is scum, he's not Sloth's partner. It's not unheard of for people to bus their partners that bad in multiball, even with small teams, but it's so dangerous that it rarely pays off in reward, and the way that Sloth talked to Mendel was really like he was trying to appease him and town read him in return that it doesn't really feel all that bussy. I want to just slot him as town because even that push as hard as it was, is also less likely to come from opposing scum in general either as that kind of thing tends to get one shot from the team you just buried in the ground. A lot of technical talk on scum behavior tends to go over my head a bit but the trying to figure out the game

I don't remember her giving on today? I think someone, you?, asked about it and oh can't remember her response.
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dammit.
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I'm just copying the first part because I didn't realize it would post.
If Mendel is scum, he's not Sloth's partner. It's not unheard of for people to bus their partners that bad in multiball, even with small teams, but it's so dangerous that it rarely pays off in reward, and the way that Sloth talked to Mendel was really like he was trying to appease him and town read him in return that it doesn't really feel all that bussy. I want to just slot him as town because even that push as hard as it was, is also less likely to come from opposing scum in general either as that kind of thing tends to get one shot from the team you just buried in the ground. A lot of technical talk on scum behavior tends to go over my head a bit but the trying to figure out the game through trying to assess what scum would/might do feels good. I know he's mentioned not having any scum reads today, and I guess if other scum team he could do what Keldeo is doing and just hunt for Sloth's partner without doing much else.

 

Well as I said at D2 start I didn’t like trying to vote Cobalt when we didn’t have substantial content to go on and the lack there of could be explained by RL obligations.

Thanks to sub I now have that content. So without further adieu content read time.

So…right off the bat this seems weird

He mentions town claim/self alignment 3 separate times in his first three posts which feels a little much. Even shades Cobalt as seeming like scum. It all comes across and disingenuous and more like appeasement of his inherited wagon then anything else.

This is the first post from Vaimes in game where he says something pinged him about my tone. He later never minds it in #658.

He also makes sure to mention he’s skimmed and catching up.

He again makes sure everyone knows he’s still catching up which….makes sense. It’s a lot of crap to sift through.

But he also claims now to have a definitive stopping point for his reading instead of the vagueness of “I skimmed there’s a lot of read walls (cause Sloth has to write war and peace every god damned game)”

Stopping point is Eid’s no NK D2 start post…which is before my posts where I accuse Tom of lying. Why lie about where ya stopped reading? How does he have a read on my tone in posts he supposedly hasn’t read? He sets up this little crumbing of shade and then never does anything it seems.

He spends all this time insinuating he's hunting for Sloth's partner only to turn around and seize one post from me, misconstrue it completely and pretty much decree that "Nah sloth partner hunting doesn't matter just lynch this one"

no totally wasn't! Of course he wasn't. It's totally coincidence that in his very first post he claims I was "weird tonally" in a post he claims not to have read yet. A point he says he'll go back substantiate and never does despite deciding that I am 100% certain scum. Why wouldn't you revisit your original doubt if that's the case? Unless that original doubt was just a tee-up with so he could seize on something and misconstrue it later. If you're going to argue a case on me....go back and grab more points against me. Low hanging fruit at the VERY least go back to the one ya brought up in the first place.

It comes across like his entire case relies on one question I asked 600 + posts ago and nothing else. At least mendel's got more than one note in his tune.

UNVOTE CERBERASTA

@Mendel I got a golden idea. I see your backing self into a corner vibes on Vaimes. If I don't kick the bucket N2 I'll even self hammer for you in D3 lynch. That'll cheer everyone up.

VOTE VAIMES.


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Tammy what are you thoughts on Sloth's tying Jarizok into his read on me? If he actually thought I was opposing scum...then he basically just put a big "LYNCH HERE" stamp on his partner's head and effectively made a target of the more powerful scum role on his team.

 

I'm truly shocked you hopped onto me.

I'll be honest I stopped reading after "he called himself town and that's weird" because I knew it was gonna end with a vote.
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said the villager, truly concerned with finding the mafia.

Okay that's all the snark I'll put out.

 

I've got two appointments I've got to leave for soon, so I'm not sure if I'l be able to finish teasing out my thoughts on everyone before I leave, so I'm going to go through my mess of thoughts about Terraine.

Terraine is the biggest conundrum in this game for me. I like her tone. For most of the time she has a good friendly enough tone that I like. But that's really it and having a friendly tone isn't really all that alignment indicative for most people. She came out the gate swinging strong and looking like she was going to be a force in trying to pick apart things that didn't add up to her, but that didn't last long. There's only a couple oddities that I remember her pushing from yesterday and those were jokes that she pushed as serious. So I had this image of a hard hitter that after a strong outing just basically benched it for the rest of the day. There wasn't a whole lot of probing that matched up to those two things, but she was present. (And some of this might be a little unfair, I'm not checking my work for factual accuracy here. I'm just trying to lay out my thoughts as they are now to try to get some tether there and see where I am.) I just remember yesterday feeling a sense of just waiting and waiting for something from Terraine. She did make a reads list which gave her thoughts, so I'm not trying to say she did nothing, but she did do quite a bit of appeasing back towards Sloth.

Tom thinks this makes her definitely not Sloth's partner because she would have bussed back because that's just natural, which eh. I've buddied my partner who was bussing me before to try to make it look like we weren't partnered and I've seen it done with other people. So, I don't think that because she didn't fight back and called him town means they're not partnered. I do think that Vaimes' point that because they're good friends in real life, they'd have been more inclined to work together better is a good one. (Would that look like haha I'm gonna bus you and you appease me and we'll playfully taunt each other in the thread?)

Tom also thinks that she's town because she didn't exploit her rustiness by leaning on it and has a consistent thought process, as we see with regards to votes, which unless I'm missing some subtext feels exceptionally thin. I think, as mafia, she'd be even more aware of how falling on rustiness would make you look like you're making excuses for things, and consistency isn't really a town tell, especially when it comes to things like voting and pushing. And on the voting and pushing, I just don't understand that. I don't get why she got so passionate about the pushing and voting at the start of day. Unless you guys used to be happy lolhammers at the start of day around here, nobody with experience thinks that voting at the start of the day means lynching at the start of the day. (I don't have a problem with her not voting because hi I know I'm a special head case, but it's the reaction to acting like it's a lynch that I just don't get.)

I don't get interpretation of Sloth's read on her or the many ways she and others have tried to interpret that read as being he really thought she was town, he didn't push because he'd look scummy if she flipped town (no he wouldn't), though the he was trying to get me riled up to get me lynched okay maybe - scum do pull out the look how over defensive she is to me when they start pushing me to try to get me lynched a lot of the time, so I get this sentiment.

So tonally I'm like yeah I like you you're town let's hang. Thread movement and behavior, I'm like you totally fit the profile of scum in multiball. (I see a response to Vaimes just posted, but I am not out of time and have to run to my appointment. I'll probably be able to pop in quickly between the two, but otherwise I should be back two hours before deadline at the very least. Hopefully enough time to finish my thoughts.)

 

Serious responses to the case.

Calling myself town is NAI. I do it every game.

I never mind'd the ping because I started thinking tom might be scum.

When I said I stopped reading at D2 start, I didn't literally mean Eidolonic's post. I read a bit of Ter's tom push and tom's responses, and pretty much skipped everyone else because that was the most interesting/memorable thing.

I went from Jarizok to Ter because I don't normally have strong scumreads. I do a lot of shruglunching, which Jarizok deffo would be. He could absolutely be scum, I just never hit a post that made me go "yup, this is not a villager," like I did with Ter.

I did not take the quote out of context. If anything, I supplied additional context to make it very clear how I saw the post.

What is your current read on fluff?

 

I never said that.

"Saying you like ice cream is weird"

VS

"Saying you like ice cream three times in a row is weird"

These are two different sentences.

 

It could be three times in a row or 300 times. Doesn't change the fact that it's not a scumtell, in general or for me specficially, probably.
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What is your current read on his fluffiness?

Don't make me ask again.

 

Why are you asking me?

I quiver and quake. I assure you.

 

To see if you have a satisfactory answer.
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I promise to share my reason for asking after I get an answer from you. Town's honor.
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Also

Unvote, vote Jarizok

Decent chance he's scum just by PoE. If I die here, I'll have to be content with my legacy being "tom and Ter are forbidden from endgaming."