Ok ya know what?

1) I wasn't here too much Monday. I felt like celebrating my birthday.

2) I was mostly playing catch up with this AND my job yesterday.

3) I HAVE been asking questions that are helping ME figure out Jaris partner. If I don't feel like sharing them with the class yet I don't have to and have my reasons for doing so.

 

Okay, but why do you feel it’s okay to not even attempt to engage with me when you yelled at fluff for shutting you down?
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I am, of course, going to be very critical of the people who’ve been sitting on me all Day. You said you were “comfy” with your vote, and that is bad, because nobody should be comfortable with a frozen gamestate. At least when it was between me and Jarizok, it forced people to take stances. Who am I up against toDay?
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I know that the nature of the game makes this seem okay, but I am town, and right now there are two mafia that are perfectly “comfortable” not doing anything.

No Ter, I am not scumpainting you, I am just using your word because I hate hate HATE it.
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And it’s perfectly fine if you have other priorities. That’s a completely different story from “this player isn’t helping me figure out the game,” which is what I’m concerned with. If you’re a villager, that’s one person on my team who isn’t being an ally. That is bad.

I’m busy with work, and with moving, and wanting to do non-mafia things in general. Especially when this game is as soul-sucking as it is. The nature of my job allows me to phonepost quite often, and I’m at least not going to be told I didn’t try hard enough to show that this slot is town.

 

Right now, Vaimes, my thoughts on you being scum are to deal less with the volume of your content and more with the actual content. Some of it is attempting to shut down discussion but some of it just reads way too abrasive to be necessary. Maybe I just don't get as invested, but if I were to be dropped in as a replacement and knew I was town, I would try to read and just give quick, casual thoughts. If I was getting lynched, I would make sure to dole out reads and make cases. I wouldn't bother with emotional appeals because those just come across as sour.

There's another scum out there, and it's hard to tell who it could be. Amidst my nulls from my last read, I'd probably look closest at Fluff or TerRaine, especially seeing how as one of Ter's readlists had Jarizok pretty high up and Tom, me, and Tammy down in the burnt orange-red. Seeing as Tom is confirmed town, I know I'm town, and Tammy is in my towncore-- it's sus. I'll do more digging into Ter later. I've made one or two fluff cases previously that'll need re-examining in the light of the past few EoD/Nights but fluff is still up there for me.

 

Your attempt at engagement was a snotty comment about patting myself on the back and doing nothing. You got a snotty answer back.

I gave reasons for being okay with my vote that aren't frozen...that take directly from things you did day 3.

In the meantime I will continue to read and prod when I can and then gather my thoughts on my reads before I present them.

 

I’d say it was more snarky than snotty.
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And I’ve been bending over and taking too much bullshit to completely keep my cool. I don’t want to cross any lines, and I’m sorry if it’s making this game less fun for you.

 

Like, people have been making cases against me this entire game-- I've not been a major wagon, but votes have been tossed at me pretty handily, and I dealt with it by just trying my best to address it with what information I could piece together but MOSTLY by trying to help (however little I could) build cases against others. I'll not lie, I've definitely been able to coast a little on the work of others, but it's a group game and relying on others to help is the point.

While it's definitely important to keep scum hunting (even if you flip town), I can understand the reasoning behind holding answers close even if I don't necessarily agree with it. If you lay out too much, scum might kill you in the night. Which, sure.

I'll admit I'm still just trying to figure out game nuances, but it seems like petty, one-sentence back-and-forthing isn't scumhunting and isn't helpful towards your case. Try and lay out a genuine case against another scum that looks better than the one that's been laid out against you.

 

“It’s a group game.”

Yeahhh, the only people I can kinda rely on aren’t here, so.
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Also the case against me seems to be a mix of

- Cobalt lurked and can’t be ruled out as a Sloth partner
- I’m abrasive
- I’m scumreading the people voting me
- I’m AtE’ing
- I’m inconsistent
- People flat-out disagree with my reads.

I can’t help what Cobalt did, and how Sloth treated Cobalt. I do get snarky when I’m under pressure, which doesn’t happen often these days. Same with AtE, that’s just how I post when I’m frustrated. I’m inconsistent because I’m posting thoughts before I read everything, and taking in a lot of new information. I’ve made multiple cases, was wrong on tom, but no one agrees with what I’ve said about Mendel or fluff.

This is the last town game where I was super frustrated because I scumread someone people were trying to townclear: https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums...nds-and-enemies-mafia-game-over-friendship-is

I think I posted so much that game, I had 30% of the game’s posts. A lot of it is AtE and snark, because that is what leaks out when I feel like people aren’t listening or are content to coast with how the game is going.
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Oh, forgot to address scumreading the people pushing me.

It feels like one of those things people love to scumread more often than it actually turns out to be a scumtell. It feels very buzzword-y. I don’t understand why it was/is hard for tom or Mendel to get this, and one of the reasons I scumread tom. Mendel is scum, so his push is whatever.

When you look at the context of the situation (lurky slot that has partner equity, which is something that cannot be defended against unless I am exactly the town Watcher) and the fact that scum are either scumhunting or looking to push lunches that’s aren’t their team, is it not completely obvious that there would be scum voting for me? Especially when my counterwagon had a living partner.

So this criticism feels completely unwarranted. Of course there was scum pushing me. Of course I’m gonna suspect everyone pushing me. Of course ALL of them aren’t scum. I don’t understand the issue with this. Unless someone wants to argue that Jarizok’s partner didn’t try to save him?

This isn’t even getting into my town meta. I attract a fair amount of mafia attention on Day 1s. Scum love to push me and then back off later when I start obvtowning. I almost always at least suspect someone is BSing a push on me. I left my scumrange decades ago. I am town. I am very tired.

How many people am I getting through to. :V

 

Dude, you know that's just part of it. Two of your points I'd summarize as changing the game pace and atmosphere to disfavor town cooperation, the OMGUSing and the AtE are legitimate concerns, and my biggest cincern is how you swiveled away from looking for the team 1 player and opened the scum hunt yesterday.
Your "inconsistent" argument was "if I was scum , I'd have shot player X, who is still alive, but not Tom", which is pretty transparently based on utility and nothing more.

Jarizok wasn't on the table (much?) when you scumread Tom yesterday. And you didn't scumhunt him, your case was "he votes me, and he isn't here", and when he was, your tune changed, but the gist of it didn't. You put Jarizok on the table because you wanted to save yourself, not the other way around.
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You're still doing it, btw: hunting for Jarizok's partner, not for Sloth's.

 

@Mendel

Worst case scenario for D3...we lynch vaimes and he comes up Town. Who do you point your eyes to for sloth's partner?

 

fluff is Sloth’s partner. Unless you disagree with my case?
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Like unless I can see flips and reevaluate, that’s the world I believe I’m in. fluff and Mendel are scum.
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Will address other stuff in a sec, driving.
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Like my vote is on fluff, right now.

 

This is still true?

@Fluffiness , would you say that is true?

I'm not seeing Keldeo and Cerber as clearly as you do, could you talk about them a little more?

Your preferred strategy would be here to lynch Vaimes, and then go for whoever is in your POE for the other team. This means Vaimes flipping with Sloth makes me the next day's lynch, and Vaimes flipping town makes me the next day's lynch as well, correct?

 

I really don’t see how I’ve changed the thread atmosphere to somehow favor scum. I can understand if you don’t like how I play, but it’s a pretty big leap to say my presence is antitown. You are the only one asserting this.

I “swiveled” the hunt because I could not identify Sloth’s partner. Hell, I wasn’t confident Jarizok would flip scum either. I’d rather lunch scum in general than look for a specific one, so I worked with what I had.

The “who would I kill” thing was hypothetical, and to point out that tom was not a priority kill for me. At all. I either shoot my town Watcher read, or I shoo my scum read. Frankly, I’m shocked you didn’t shoot me last Night if you want me out of the game so badly.

 

I'm not sure I want to spend my time on that today, I don't feel that's very likely. I'd go back and see who didn't want to hunt Sloth's partner on D2, and who pushed Vaimes the most, which, now that Tom is dead, is probably me, so I ought to go looking for who pushed him the third most?

 

(Your choices are fluff, CA, and Ter.)

 

Your POE still had Jarizok and Cerber in it when you started on TerRaine.

 

Yes, and I wasn’t confident on either of them.
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Ter and Tom were my strongest scumreads Day 2. What is your point?

 

Generally speaking yeah. I think part of what makes Vaimes uncomfortable to deal with is that I did believe his solving even if it's against the grain / kinda bad. I don't believe his solving wrt fluff right now, but I believed it with TerRaine even though the logic was bad. I kinda touched on this in the larger paragraph more. I definitely see worlds where it's possible for him to flip town and it makes the game a lot harder. Something he keeps routinely saying we aren't doing which is annoying.

Honestly not really right now. I'd recommend just reading over Keldeo's day one with the flips in mind, it looks really nice for him. Don't believe him to be Jarizok's partner from it at baseline minimum. Cerber is more... ethereal and wanting to just sheep tom until I'm forced to be proven wrong. He probably has a lot of partner equity, I don't really remember what I had down for him and am not going to check right now.

No. The Jarizok sorting is all just really light stuff and rather frustrating to try and solve into given the way he played the game. I want to evaluate it more when I have more flips, I think solving Sloth's partner is a lot more tenable to do and should just be a priority across the board. I do have you as a potential Jari partner though, yes. But that doesn't mean I'm going to lynch Vaimes and then vote you into AFKing or anything.

 

I don’t see people actively solving for worlds where I am town. That is what I need in order to, you know, actually work with people. It’s useless if you’re doing it in your head or QT.
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Also, people townreading fluff: I need to be walked through that nice and slow.
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Like if you aren’t doing it in this game thread, you might as well not be doing it at all.

 

Your case against fluff is actually not very good and reading through contextually when he voted and why makes it fall apart. His rebuttal against you about competing wagons (voting Jarizok over Sloth) was strong.

I haven't seen a proper follow up that I agreed with from when he said that.
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I basically see you saying "look fluff did a weird vote" where fluff says "it's actually a townie vote" and then you spear heading the same case when his logic is just better than yours.

 

Okay, then will you please present a runner up? The best thing I’ve gotten this entire game is “man, Vaimes COULD be town but idk.” That is it. I don’t think a single person has seriously sat down and evaluated who else could be Sloth’s partner. I’ve run through the ENTIRE player list, except Keldeo and Tammy. It’s someone else’s turn now.