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Common Fanon Ideas You Hate

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Mystery, Apr 17, 2020.

  1. ScottPress

    ScottPress The Horny Sovereign –§ Prestigious §– DLP Supporter

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    Originality is good, accepting one fanfic writer's original idea as canon is not. Taure came up with the Draught of Sparta but wouldn't expect other writers to also include it as the explanation for the enhanced physical durability of wizards.
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2020
  2. Jeram

    Jeram Elder of Zion ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    What do you think of a term like "warding Charms" that falls under the Charms category of Magic?
     
  3. Ched

    Ched Da Trek Moderator DLP Supporter ⭐⭐

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    Here's a question - how do you all feel about the possibility of 'dodging' spells?

    • Okay with it?
    • It's a pet peeve and you hate it?
    • Or does it depend?
    There need to be ways to avoid spells so that everything that's cast at someone doesn't hit. Non-dodging options include:
    • Shield charm (for some spells)
    • Blocking with a physical barrier (killing curse)
    • The person firing the spell missed
    • Whatever Snape did in canon when Harry was trying to hit him
    Other things I've seen include things like 'spell countering' and 'redirection' but I don't think those are canon.

    But I am not opposed to being able to dodge some spells or sidestep them. I know some people HATE this. I prefer the idea though that it's incredibly difficult to do. Just like 'dodging' bullets is not something you can really do, but if you see someone starting to point a gun at you then it's possible to dive out of the way before they shoot you. Most people won't do that fast enough to avoid getting shot.

    What I don't like is when you get wizards training how to dodge and then they can just danced around spells as if the damn things move at approximately the same speed as a turtle.

    I like the idea of spells that can't be dodged because they have a different mechanism to the magic. But a stunner or a confundus or a jelly legs? It seems like you're gimping your fight scenes if you don't allow those to be side-stepped by a very proactive person who is already moving.
     
  4. aAlouda

    aAlouda High Inquisitor

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    I think only the few spells that are literal flashes of light should be theoratically dodgeable, all the others which affect their target instantly once cast should be impossible to dodge. Meaning you can dodge a stunning charm, but not petrificus totalus or impedimenta, or any transfiguration for that matter.

    But even the flashes of light spell should only be dodgeable the way a gunshot is, meaning you can dodge before the spell is cast by moving out of the way and preventing the opponent from aiming or if you have increased reflexes/speed, dodging while under the effect of a luck potion is also acceptable.
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2020
  5. Ched

    Ched Da Trek Moderator DLP Supporter ⭐⭐

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    Even things like Petrificus Totalis have to be aimed though, right? So if they aim at you and cast it, but you aren't there anymore to be hit by it by the time they've finished the incantation and wand movements, how is that different?
     
  6. aAlouda

    aAlouda High Inquisitor

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    Yeah sorry, I wrote that weirdly.

    I meant spells like those shouldn't be possible to truly be dodgeable at all, meaning if you are in its path while the spell is cast, while the others can theoratically be dodged while they're traveling through the air.

    But of course if the wand isn't pointing at the target because opponent moved out of the way before the spell is cast it wouldn't hit regardless of how fast it is.
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2020
  7. Mordecai

    Mordecai Drunken Scotsman –§ Prestigious §– DLP Supporter

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    I'd choose to go with the idea that spells can be dodged, but it does take practice. Like if you start to dodge after the spell in moving, you're too late. Instead you need to dodge pretty much as the spell is cast. Can't go too early, otherwise obviously they adjust their aim.

    I personally don't see the "bolt of light" as moving at light speed. Its much much slower than that. But its still fast enough that dodging needs the perfect timing.
     
  8. Sesc

    Sesc Slytherin at Heart Moderator

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    So this is part of the broader topic of "how does magic function". And if the answer is "magic", you already answered your dodging question (i.e., nonsensical concept, resp. only using other magic).

    On the other hand, as you say, clearly, we see magic that misses the target, bouncing off walls, etc. So there is some point-and-shoot element to it. How to reconcile these two? I have no idea :)

    Bonus question: Have you ever held a gun vaguely at stomach height and tried to reliably hit a target by pointing? And if the answer is yes (lol), have you tried doing the same directly at the end of having waved the gun around in a complicated pattern? I'm going to hide behind your back ...
     
  9. Ched

    Ched Da Trek Moderator DLP Supporter ⭐⭐

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    So a few things here.

    Have I fired guns? Of course. I'm from Mississippi, dad collects them, and dad spent a career in law enforcement.

    Have I had actual training in doing so? No. But if you wanna fire a shotgun from the hip in a hurry you're still gonna hit whatever is in front of you unless you really screw up. Some guns aren't as effective at doing that.

    I think I see your point though, that aiming is hard. Aiming is likely harder when you've had to do wand motions.

    But marksmen exist in the real world and they probably exist in canon as well. Even if students aren't trained how to aim for combat casting they still use their wands every day. Using wingaridium leviosa on your hairbrush is going to count as aiming practice of a sort if you actually need to hit your hairbrush for it to work.

    Typically the argument I've heard as to why dodging isn't possible (and by 'dodging' I mean any movement that makes the spell miss) is related to spells not actually moving from the wand to the person, but rather the spell starts at the person.

    For example - stupefy. If you cast it and it 'comes out' of your wand and moves to hit someone, that could be dodged. And I don't mean because it's moving slowly so much as I mean if you're already moving you can make it 'miss' you. But if the spell NEVER MOVES from the wand to the person, if the spell originates at the target, then there's nothing to dodge.

    It's weird for me to think of it in that manner, but I've seen a lot of people over the years complain about dodging. And this seemed a good time to check if it was the idea that spells can be dodged by moving that bothered people or if it was the entire concept of how casting worked that people were up in arms about.
     
  10. Gengar

    Gengar Degenerate Shrimp –§ Prestigious §– DLP Supporter

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    I've always mentally struggled with spells being 'instant.' How has nobody got a lucky hit on Riddle then?

    Would the most powerful witch/ wizard not then just be a gunslinger type, and not someone particularly knowledgeable of arcane magic?

    I dunno.
     
  11. 9th Doctor

    9th Doctor Groundskeeper

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    In some ways I always felt that Snape’s blocking Harry was seeing the curse Harry was about to cast via eye contact. He’d cast the counter curse immediately, meeting the curse head on, which gave the impression of a “parry.”

    This makes it a more unique skill, and appropriate in terms of his known skill set as a legilimens.
     
  12. Alistair

    Alistair Seventh Year

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    I'm with Mordac on this. I never even batted an eye at the idea of Masteries in that context. I guess it's because I work in a pretty traditional industry in the UK. A good proportion of those I work with day to day are Master Brewers, Master Distillers, Masters of Wine, Master Cicerones etc. The thought of HP masteries in that context, namely a professional qualification gained through proven on the job experience and knowledge coupled with extensive academic study which commands a degree of respect, but isn't 'leader in your field' levels of rare makes a lot of sense considering the fairly traditional approach to business we see in the books.

    The other alternative is the 'academic' masters route, namely a Master's Degree. Again, not necessarily 'leader in the field' level of knowledge, but certainly an indication of a depth of knowledge and achievement. This doesn't seem to gel quite as well with the context as there don't seem to be institutes of higher magical learning, but the idea of earning the first type of 'Mastery' through apprenticship makes a lot of logical sense to me.

    It also makes sense that Hogwarts, especially as a pre-eminent UK school might request this level of knowledge and skill for its professors, just as my secondary school seemed to mostly hire those with Doctorates for hard academic subjects, especially the sciences, although I don't think that would be in the job description.
     
  13. Mystery

    Mystery Squib

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    While the plebians of the wizarding world may need to go through a whole lot of ridiculous wand waving to cast a spell, people of Dumbledore and Grindelwald`s caliber surely wouldn`t need to. Especially considering what we read of Dumbledore and Voldemort`s duel; a quick read of Voldemort and Dumbledore`s duel in the Ministry on Pottermore:

    You get the idea, duels of such epic proportions wouldn`t be able to take place if you had to do wand motions for every damn thing. So, what do you think allows wizards like Dumbledore and Voldemort to do magic of this sort, while other commoners have to do a whole lot of wand-waving? Magical Power? Practice? Dark Rituals?
     
  14. Seratin

    Seratin Proudmander –§ Prestigious §– DLP Supporter

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    Dan and Emma being Hermione's parents names.

    "Omegalul kuk kuk I put the actors names as Hermione's parents names because that's the ship, geddit?"
     
  15. DarthBill

    DarthBill The Chosen One DLP Supporter

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    Huh. I had never even noticed that Hermione's Dad's name is never Rupert.
     
  16. Skeletaure

    Skeletaure Magical Core Enthusiast ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    This is my preference - that you can successfully dodge spells, but to do so requires that you start your movement before the spell is en route. Most "missed" spells would not have anything to do with aim or deliberate dodging, but rather follow from having a moving target - if you search for the word "dodge" and "miss" in canon PDFs, that is in fact the vast majority of dodging and missing in canon.

    With respect to aiming, I don't see a spell as something that comes out of a wand like a projectile. Rather, I see the wand as an instrument which the wizard uses to cast the spell. The spell forms in the space around the wand and wizard (e.g. I picture the average spell as involving swirling light around the wand and the wand arm during casting) and travels not in the direction the wand was pointing, but towards the caster's desired target.

    Aim is therefore a mental attribute, rather than a physical one. You would miss when, for example, the target is not clear in your mind, for example because you can't see it properly, or where a straight-line path towards the target isn't clear in your mind.

    All this relates to spells which travel through the air. Certainly I think there are spells which direct direct effect on the target without travelling to them physically - Transfiguration, for example. This could still be blocked, I think, because I don't think a block requires a physically moving spell to be effective (Snape blocks spells before they have even been cast), but you'd have to be quick about it. The main defence against Transfiguration is, I think, that human Transfiguration is extremely difficult to the point of being completely useless in combat for all but McGonagall/Dumbledore/Voldemort etc.
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2020
  17. kinetique

    kinetique Headmaster

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    I think people drastically underestimate how fit you have to be for professional motorsports. Harry's broom. the firebolt accelerates to 150mph faster than almost any car ever made ever, including supercars. If we assume that it can decelerate at a comparable level of performance, and turn around quickly, Harry is probably enduring multiple G's of acceleration for a serious amount of time each time he flies, and is probably more toned and fit than 99.9% of the population.

    I despise bashing and children making allegiances in first grade Slytherin.
     
  18. ExperiencedGamer

    ExperiencedGamer Fourth Year

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    I also don't mind 'Masteries' as long as it's something similar to a university degree (through apprenticeship or otherwise), rather than 'top 100 in the world'.

    Yeah, bashing being terrible goes without saying in all fandoms and even original work, in my humble opinion. As for Slytherin first years making allegiances, it goes hand-in-hand with the other terrible cliche of ancient and noble houses. (Heir Longbottom, Lord Potter and so on... (barfs))

    Finally, I'm fairly certain that the Vitality/Defence/Endurance/(whatever you call it) stat (so to speak) of wizards and witches is generally far higher than Muggles', though I'm also fairly certain that magical humans' physical strength and running speed baseline is not too different to normal humans.
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2020
  19. Mordecai

    Mordecai Drunken Scotsman –§ Prestigious §– DLP Supporter

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    I'm not sure about that. I sincerely doubt they'd be letting an 11 year old fly around on something that goes over 100mph without there being magical protections in place that prevent said 11 year old being physically fucked just from flying on it. Obviously there aren't protections which stop you falling off, but protections which reduce the physical impact of flying seem quite reasonable, if only for comfort reasons.
     
  20. TRH

    TRH Groundskeeper

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    Dumbledore still using the phrase "For the Greater Good." I've actually imagined a scene where Harry says the phrase without knowing about its significance...and is confused to see Dumbledore wince, like the average wizard would hearing Voldemort's name.
     
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